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Lazy Libel: A Voice for Men “doxes” an alleged misandrist blogger — and ID’s the wrong woman [UPDATE2 w/ Georgetown response, notes from neo-Nazis]

A Voice for Men: The Gang that Couldn't Dox STraight
A Voice for Men: The Gang that Couldn’t Dox Straight

As I finished up my last post about Men’s Rights Redditors attempting to dox a so-called “conservative feminist” blogger who had confessed to trashing male applications when working in a university admissions office, I saw that A Voice for Men has run a post by Paul Elam identifying someone they’ve convinced themselves is the blogger, apparently using the information dug up by the Reddit doxers.

Their alleged culprit? “Arianna Pattek, a Georgetown grad student.” Other Men’s Rightsers have taken up the case, and the Conspiracy Subreddit is all aflutter about a post identifying her by name.

They’ve got the wrong person.

AVFM “proof” backing up their claims is that they have found a paper by Pattek that bears some vague resemblances to the blogger’s description of her thesis. But it’s clearly not a match.

Discussing her (then upcoming) thesis defense on her blog, the blogger refers to a number of topics, including men’s rights and paleoconservatism, that aren’t referenced at all in Pattek’s thesis. And roughly half the of her thesis deals with a topic — Holocaust Denial — that the blogger doesn’t mention. The blogger says her thesis is 120 pages; Pattek’s thesis is 95 pages.

But there’s an even bigger reason I know these two women are not one and the same:

The pseudonymous blogger claims to have gotten a doctorate in the spring of 2012.

Pattek got her bachelors degree from Georgetown in the spring of 2012. She’s not now, and has never been, a grad student.

Her thesis wasn’t a PhD. thesis, but a Senior Thesis that was a requirement for her minor in Justice and Peace, a program for undergraduates.

It even says so on the title page of the thesis itself: “A Thesis Submitted in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Certificate in Justice and Peace, Georgetown University, Spring 2012.” A news article linked to in the comments on A Voice for Men notes that she was “the winner of the 2012 Peace and Justice Studies Association (PJSA) Undergraduate Thesis Award.”

UNDERgraduate. UNDERgraduate.

They’re not the same woman.

All of this is clear from simply reading the “evidence” that AVFM has assembled.

Even without this smoking gun, even a cursory skimming of the blog and the thesis show that they were written by different people. The blogger, assuming she is even a real person and not the creation of a hoaxer, claims to be a “conservative feminist” and constantly bashes Muslims. Pattek, concerned about “marginalized groups,” seems to be anything but a conservative. The blogger’s writing style is crude and dogmatic, so much so that the blog reeks of hoax. Pattek, by contrast, writes smoothly and intelligently.

It’s almost as if we are talking about two different people.

Oh, wait.

A Voice for Men: not only shitty people, but shitty doxers as well.

Amazingly, someone who says he’s a friend of Pattek has gone over to AVFM to point out in the comments that she is clearly not the “conservative feminist” blogger — and has been dismissed by Wrong-Way Elam and the gang as a liar and “white knight.”

EDITED TO ADD: MarkyMark and The Elusive Wapiti have both climbed aboard the anti-Pattek bandwagon.

And Georgetown has officially clarified that 1) Pattek was an UNDERgraduate and that 2) she never worked in admissions.

tT0GNcR

Meanwhile, over on AVFM, someone called Disorderly Conduct has posted an appropriately critical comment:

I’m disconcerted by the certainty of other commenters that everything is true considering the amount and plausibility of evidence that currently exists. There’s nothing wrong with prodding the university for answers about Arianna and the website edits, but at the very least wait until more evidence comes in before you run off with your verdict.

It should be noted the credibility of the entire controversy is based on anecdotes taken from an extremely dubious and over-the-top blog. Anecdotes are NOT valid evidence of anything unless they are substantiated by additional solid evidence, and this anecdote has none. Evidence connecting the blog to Arianna suggests she might be writing the blog, not that what is being written is true. Additionally, there are serious discrepancies between the information provided about Adrianna on the cached Georgetown pages and the beliefs stated in the blog. Some commenters suggest this is to cover her identity, but there is no reason to believe this information was distorted or fabricated but the admissions blog post itself is not.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ckvgo/woman_who_works_at_college_admissions_rejects/
Mensrights reddit is not on board with this. One commenter who says they know about the Georgetown admissions process asserts that there is major gaps between their knowledge of it and how the blogger portrayed the process. This includes discrepancies between dates and the fact that admissions isn’t even run by a single person. Another commenter says there’s a committee involved in judging admissions. Putting this much effort into portraying your post as containing faulty information just so you can brag about seriously incriminating and illegal evidence is extremely implausible to me.

To recap:
– There’s no evidence the post about trashing admissions is factual, and other evidence indicates it wasn’t
– There is insubstantial evidence the blogger was Arianna
– It is advisable to wait until there is substantial evidence before you declare it as true

Additionally:
– I haven’t seen evidence Arianna was ever in charge of admissions (feel free to correct)
– The consequences of the conspiracy would have to be public or fabricated: the university publishes statistics about their admissions, and any number of people would have to cover it up or there’d be a suspicious spike in certain demographics
– The total number of people in the U involved in the conspiracy if all of it were true would be implausibly high
– Presumption of innocence has apparently gone to hell, and of all people to do it

Elam responds with this feeble bit of hand-waving:

I agree with much of what you post here, which is exactly why an affirmative response to the NCFM letter from GU is in order, vs the removal of information about Pattek from their website.

It is in the light of day where the lingering questions about this can be answered.

No, Paul, that’s not how journalism works. You get your facts straight BEFORE you publish. You don’t publish dubious — and in this case demonstrably false — information and wait for others to prove it wrong in the “light of day.”

This whole incident is shining a lot of daylight onto AVFM, and what it reveals is none too pretty — albeit not suprising in the least.

Thanks, Cloudiah, for bringing the Georgetown response and these comments to our attention.

EDITED AGAIN: The same Men’s Rights forum that thoroughly doxed the red-haired Canadian activst I wrote about earlier this week has also doxed Pattek, albeit less thoroughly; I’m not going to link to it. Some other sites that have wrongly trashed Pettek: ReyekoMRA, a conspiracy-mongering site ironically called What Really Happened, and Stormfront. Yes, THAT Stormfront, the hangout for white supremecists.

What’s amazing to me is that the discussion on Stormfront, despite being racist as fuck, actually shows more evidence of critical thought than the discussions of the AVFM regulars. Posting in the Stormfront thread, David Duke — yes, THAT David Duke — is critical enough to think that “feminist conservative’s” blog is bogus. Others are similarly skeptical. Meanwhile, another commenter there is able to figure out that whether or not the blog is bogus, there’s no way Pattek wrote it.

So it’s official: Paul Elam is dumber, and more blinded by hate, than David Duke.

I’m going to write Pattek a supportive email. (If you can’t find her email account, I can send you the email of hers I’m using.)

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Laudanum (@MsLaudanum)

Ugh. Horrible, horrible people.

bahumbugi
8 years ago

I am just concerned they are putting a young woman at risk here…what are the options?

bahumbugi
8 years ago

Well it looks like she’s out of the country and has locked down her personal information online. I’m not going to dig any deeper, but that makes me feel better.

Bad_dog
Bad_dog
8 years ago

Ffs… These guys are kind making me and a few other people I know uneasy. I have put off regularly updating my own blog because of fears that I may push the wrong button of one of the unhinged mra’s. And I only want to write about depression, balancing a life while doing shift work, and my gardening… I hope the woman they are harassing now is ok and I hope if things get bad she can get the police involved. Thanks again David for keeping track of this… If, deity forbid, something happens to any targeted woman at least there’s a record here of avfm’s role in it.

Historophilia
Historophilia
8 years ago

Nasty, vicious AND thick as a very large number of short planks.*

*is this Ableist? I’m not sure if it is or not, so if someone with more knowledge of the subject would tell me I’d appreciate it.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
8 years ago

Fucking terrorist assholes.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

Well, in Elam’s twisted world view, one woman is much the same as the next. All your information is just trivial details David. Totally inconsequential in proving that two women are in fact two totally seperate people. And so long as MRAs don’t have to aknowledge that women are in fact seperate human beings, they don’t have to acknowledge that they’ve doxxed the wrong woman, or that the supporting pillar of their world view is WRONG.

LeShiggedyDiggedy
LeShiggedyDiggedy
8 years ago

I’m coming out of lurkdom to ask a question.
I’m not an expert about American laws (I’m European), but is there a way to expose the MRAs’ terrorist behaviour to some authorities? They’re really getting out of control these days.

That woman’s life is in danger. I think something must be done.

EKatz
EKatz
8 years ago

Off-topic, but I made the mistake of looking at the comments section of this article from myfoxnews about a father and daughter who are getting deployed together to Afghanistan (the father as a soldier, the daughter in intel), and most of the comments are freaking ugly, reflecting deep-seated fears about male emasculation, ignorance of history, and truly nasty misogyny and some racism (particularly comment about her possibility getting gang-raped).
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/22001517/father-daughter-to-deploy-with-ny-based-army-unit

There are so far only a few voices of sanity on that thread.

Ms Getta Lode
Ms Getta Lode
8 years ago

* Excellent accompanying images for this post

* This blog is probably turning into a full-time job, they’re making horrible fools of themselves at such a dizzying rate

Ms Getta Lode
Ms Getta Lode
8 years ago

* image. Doy.

Yarp
8 years ago

Elam dismissed the idea that Georgetown would have a libel claim against him, but he didn’t seem to think that maybe Pattek would have a libel claim. I wish she would sue the hell out of him, because this is Chronicles of Ridic.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

The Spearhead is also tacitly supporting the doxxing effort. JohnRambo dropped a link to crimesagainstfathers, which contains all the info needed to harass this woman. Including how to contact her employer and “inquire” as to whether she is still employed with them.

Ragnard
Ragnard
8 years ago

This is hardly surprising. They see women as interchangeable commodities, why would they care which one they’re harassing? The ‘blog’ is probably some racists sexist moron’s attempt at a false flag stunt

wooo
wooo
8 years ago

Since he only responded to the possibility of a libel claim by Georgetown (which is iffy), somebody seems to have notified Elam that Pattek would have a libel claim against him, and that she is not subject to the standard of malice.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Merely pointing out that they’ve got the wrong person is white knighting now? There is simply no depth to which they will not stoop.

Thanks for covering this.

AK
AK
8 years ago

I hope that Pattek is insulated from the worst of the harassment and everything works out okay for her.

The sheer staggering inaccuracy of their “doxing” is a bit shocking, although it shouldn’t be. I mean, even a cursory check should make it clear that Pattek is not the person they are after (not that they should be after anyone in this way), but seriously, none of the details match up at all. That’s bad even for them. Perfect illustration of how hating and terrorizing women is more important to them than, you know, facts, and that any woman will do as a target.

AK
AK
8 years ago

And my grammar is all over the place there…apologies, I’m still waking up. Perhaps I should have my first cup of coffee *before* commenting. 😉

reginaldgriswold
reginaldgriswold
8 years ago

I don’t even understand this one. If they were going to write fan fiction about admissions, why use a real person?

MordsithJ
8 years ago

Wow. MRA’s suck at detective work.

bagelsan
bagelsan
8 years ago

Wow, this isn’t at all reminiscent of lynch mobs grabbing the first person they find and hanging them, is it? Good to know MRAs don’t hate women or find us indistinguishable from one another! 9_9

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

They don’t even care if they get the right person or not, just that they can have a new target for their rage and abuse. They’re not happy unless they are terrorizing some woman, any woman, who could possibly disagree with them or annoy them.

I’m coming out of lurkdom to ask a question.
I’m not an expert about American laws (I’m European), but is there a way to expose the MRAs’ terrorist behaviour to some authorities? They’re really getting out of control these days.

I agree they are way out of hand. Unfortunately, the authorities usually don’t take threats and harassment seriously until after something bad happens. Police don’t usually enforce restraining orders properly, and victims of stalking and harassment oftentimes live in fear for years while police claim their hands are tied. It’s sickening.

One of the AVfM commenters said

If Ari is not the guilty party, so to speak, then let Georgetown U take responsibility, release a full public apology for their sexist/bigoted admission policy, and out the person who was responsible.

Hello, GU?? Anyone there??

Translation: We are entitled to keep threatening a random woman who has nothing to do with the conservative feminist blog until Georgetown tells us another woman we can threaten!

Marie
8 years ago

@bad_dog

I have put off regularly updating my own blog because of fears that I may push the wrong button of one of the unhinged mra’s. And I only want to write about depression, balancing a life while doing shift work, and my gardening… I hope the woman they are harassing now is ok and I hope if things get bad she can get the police involved

That sucks 🙁 ::offers internet hugs:: On a quasi related subject, I’d love to be able to have more of my interweb accounts linked together (like here to my deviant art) but I’m too worried b/c of these guys. Ugh. They’re such vile human beings.

@LeShiggedyDiggedy

I’m not an expert about American laws (I’m European), but is there a way to expose the MRAs’ terrorist behaviour to some authorities? They’re really getting out of control these days.

No idea, but I’d fucking love it if there was.

I agree they are way out of hand. Unfortunately, the authorities usually don’t take threats and harassment seriously until after something bad happens. Police don’t usually enforce restraining orders properly, and victims of stalking and harassment oftentimes live in fear for years while police claim their hands are tied. It’s sickening.

Oh joy. Feels like everytime I comment here I mention my dislike for America (where I live) but gah….seriously guys. WTF?

bagelsan
bagelsan
8 years ago

Yay! The US is winning at sucking! USA! USA!

/sarcastic resident

princessbonbon
8 years ago

If Ari is not the guilty party, so to speak, then let Georgetown U take responsibility, release a full public apology for their sexist/bigoted admission policy, and out the person who was responsible.

Georgetown does not have to do fuck all assholes. A faux person claims to have worked there and on her fake own was throwing out admissions. There is zero systematic discrimination by the school.

God these guys are not only deeply stupid, they are too rage filled to think coherently.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
8 years ago

Hmm, I dunno, maybe we need to revive the adopt an American program in Canada. (We’ve had a couple intertubes campaigns start up around some of the politics in the US)

We got some shitty stuff happening here too, but perhaps Manboobzers would enjoy it up here?

I for one welcome my new Manboobzer neighbors!! With Timmies and maple syrup of course!

Carleyblue
Carleyblue
8 years ago

I’ve got to say, when I first started reading here, I didn’t think that the MRAs would ever go as far in tems of ‘real-word’ action as they seem to be doing now. It’s somewhat disconcerting. It seems to all be coming from one place, though -AVfM.

I think it’s time that I abandon for once and for all the idea that MRAs have ‘a few good points’, which I always held onto. No, their actions have proven them beyond help or redemption. Enough already.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

Hmm, I dunno, maybe we need to revive the adopt an American program in Canada. (We’ve had a couple intertubes campaigns start up around some of the politics in the US)

We got some shitty stuff happening here too, but perhaps Manboobzers would enjoy it up here?

I’m torn. On the one hand, Canada has an amazing health care system, beautiful natural landscapes, and not nearly as much disparity between the rich and poor. One the other hand, though, it’s so cold. How do you all take that kind of cold?

Marie
8 years ago

@thebionicmommy

What’s Canada’s health care like? So far it’s sounding like paradise…gah why do I live in America? I mean, I know it’s got good stuff, but most of that seems more like a ‘not as bad as it could’ve been stuff’. Rant. Though, on a serious note, if I do leave America, I’d be sad going to Canada, cuz they do French and English up there, and I do Spanish and English, so I’d feel like I have to learn a third language. (I already want to learn more, just not french. Not that I hate french, Just other priorities.)

Fade
8 years ago

@Bionicmommy

I suggest getting a northern breed of dog like a Norwegian Elkhound. Seeing them be so happy about snow will make you forget the cold!!

/actually, it won’t. But it’s still so cute to see my doggy roll around in snow.

Unless canada has cold but no snow, in which case it is obviously not for me.

Carleyblue
Carleyblue
8 years ago

I’ve only been to Canada once. I really liked it, but I also saw a bear and was scared. No bears, please.

But then I live in the UK, not the US. The worst animal we have where I live is the seagull.

Marie
8 years ago

@Carleyblue

I’ve been to Canada twice I think, but both were when I was really young. I should go there again, but I used to be in New York, so it was a much quicker drive than from the midwest.

I’d love to go out and be somewhere not America, not that I don’t want to return (though I may not…), I just want to see more of the world.

AK
AK
8 years ago

I lived up in the northern Rockies of the US for years. We had all of the cold and the big dangerous animals of the Canadian Rockies but none of the healthcare or social safety net. 🙁

Now I live in the warm and sunny southwestern US, though, and you’d have to forcibly drag me up north again to get me to live there. I would just start being able to feel my toes again and then the summer would be over and I’d get cold again. Not for me…110F days all summer are where it’s at. 😀

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

@ all those who want to move to Canada:
Vancouver’s not too cold (it’s a bit warmer than Seattle)! You have to not mind rain, though.

You also have to not mind living in the same city as some of the MRA winners discussed here though (name witheld to protect them from herds of rabid kittens released by angry feminists).

Again, good work David. I’m still always amazed at how gullible so many of the MRAs are. That blog uses so many of the MRA straw-feminist tropes. All that’s missing is for conservativefeminist to say she made sure to steal the precious sperm from the rejected applicants so she could steal child support from them.

Pathetic.

Marie
8 years ago

@maude LL

All that’s missing is for conservativefeminist to say she made sure to steal the precious sperm from the rejected applicants so she could steal child support from them.

I’d hope that would be too over the top for even the mras to buy…but I have my doubts.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

What’s Canada’s health care like? So far it’s sounding like paradise…gah why do I live in America?

From what I saw on Sicko, the Canadian health care system really is paradise. I’m like you, in the US. I’m lucky enough to have health insurance, but the copays and deductibles are so expensive, I can’t afford to use it very much.

I suggest getting a northern breed of dog like a Norwegian Elkhound. Seeing them be so happy about snow will make you forget the cold!!

I had to google that breed, and wow, it is beautiful.

Not for me…110F days all summer are where it’s at. 😀

Our summers are a bit cooler here in the midwest. We enjoy the breezy 105 degree days and endless droughts. Lol

Buntzums
Buntzums
8 years ago

The idiot MRA conspiracy theorists at AVFM are on the attack, of some man who runs a YouTube channel and said something inappropriate about putting him in a dumpster. Supposedly he said something about his son was a rapist, but they never showed any proof of that. So a man can assault their children and it’s OK, but if a man makes a joke then he should be hassled off the internet? They are calling CPS on him. That was Wolybumblebee and I asked her multiple times if this was a joke. They are supposed to be a fathers rights group for f*cks sakes! So they exist to hassle fathers with their subscriber base? or they have a political agenda against certain people? arrg. Oh well. Gonna’ go do my make-up and try out a recipe for reheating pizza now.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

Oops, sorry I goofed up my blockquotes.

You also have to not mind living in the same city as some of the MRA winners discussed here though (name witheld to protect them from herds of rabid kittens released by angry feminists).

Oh no. That is a dealbreaker. My deepest sympathies for all the good people of Vancouver sharing a city with those guys.

pecunium
8 years ago

Dave: Re libel, and malice.

Malice is a defense against public figures who are claiming libel. Based on my experience, she isn’t. The other thing is the lack of malice defense applies to new organisations, not individuals. A retraction; when the lack of truth was shown would cover his ass (regardless) but if AVfM were to be sued the court would have to decide if they were a news organisation (should it decide the complaintant were a public figure under Sullivan).

That it’s a well known blog (sort of) doesn’t mean it’s automatically treated as a member of, “the press”. That issue is far from settled in the law.

So, were I Elam, I’d be a lot more concerned with how his top-post pieces present “facts”, and with what happens after evidence of error were revealed.

pecunium
8 years ago

If Ari is not the guilty party, so to speak, then let Georgetown U take responsibility, release a full public apology for their sexist/bigoted admission policy, and out the person who was responsible.

And if GU says there is no such person? That this isn’t their policy?

I suspect they won’t accept it. The first thing you need to do is confess, then we can deal with deciding how guilty you are. As long as you pretend to be innoncent the campaign will continue.

princessbonbon
8 years ago

I suspect they won’t accept it. The first thing you need to do is confess, then we can deal with deciding how guilty you are. As long as you pretend to be innoncent the campaign will continue.

So what you are saying is that this is Salem all over again. Only with less hangings.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Elam is a lying toad. What happened to his “don’t dox” thing the other day? What a piece of shit.

Maude LL
Maude LL
8 years ago

Hehe…
I was browsing through the unpalatable conservativefeminist blog, and there’s a post called “beware of impostors” about how MRAs are planning to plant fake feminist blogs.
http://feministconservative.wordpress.com/2011/12/19/beware-of-impostors/
Gold quote: “So we need to be careful from now on. Be aware of those who [either] sound too good to be true(…)”
Those trolls assume that the problem with their ridiculous straw feminists is that actual real world feminists would find them too good to be true.

katz
8 years ago

You guys are right; they don’t really care which woman they harass. They’re angry; they need a target; she was convenient. They’re always going after “random student at protest” anyway; what should they care whether

I want to move to NZ. Gorgeous, home to awesome interesting animals and stuff, and its parliament gets interrupted by people spontaneously bursting into song.

katz
8 years ago

Whether I finish my sentence, apparently.

…whether they have the “right” random woman who they know did something or some other random woman who probably did something else?

Marie
8 years ago

@Maude LL

Gold quote: “So we need to be careful from now on. Be aware of those who [either] sound too good to be true(…)”
Those trolls assume that the problem with their ridiculous straw feminists is that actual real world feminists would find them too good to be true.

huh. So, a fakey feminist site is telling us to worry about fakey feminist sites? I mean, besides the obvious wtfery, it seems unnecessary, especially considering the mras aren’t very good at pretending to be feminists.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Two people on the previous thread point out, also, that this is not at all consistent with normal university admissions procedures, which presumably have safeguards in place to make sure the review process is as unbiased as possible. The idea that one person could simply “toss” applications without review by anyone else is pretty incredible just on its face.

Except it’s MRAs, and they’re willing to believe anything if it’s bad and done by a woman.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

…whether they have the “right” random woman who they know did something or some other random woman who probably did something else?

I think her biggest “crime” was simply being a woman.

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