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A 12-Step program to help A Voice for Men cure its addiction to hate

I'm pretty sure these guys thought they were a human rights movement too.
I’m pretty sure these guys thought they were some sort of  human rights movement too.

Asha James – otherwise known as TyphonBlue – has taken issue with something I wrote about A Voice for Men, the hate site she has chosen to affiliate herself with. In my post detailing the hundreds of horrendous and disgusting threats and abusive comments one Canadian feminist has received after she appeared in a YouTube video that was heavily promoted on A Voice for Men and other Men’s Rights sites, I wrote that AVFM had only distanced itself in a “superficial way from some of the harassment it has played a central role in unleashing.”

Ms. James, posting on Reddit, was unhappy with my use of the word “superficial.”

typhontwo

No, I do not think you are obliged to stop talking about her, or anyone you wish to talk about.

But you asked for suggestions as to WHAT MORE YOU CAN DO, and so I have some for you.

In fact, I have an entire 12-step Program to help you and your colleagues at A Voice for Men fight your addiction to hate.

1) Let’s start small. If you’re going to make such a big deal out of how you and your AVFM colleagues are removing the red-haired activist’s personal information from your site, you might want to, you know, actually remove her personal information from the site?  Links to her dating profiles remain up in the AVFM forum.

2) Recognize that doxing is not the only form of harassment there is, and remove the post and the comments referring to the Canadian activist as “Little red frothing fornication mouth,” which is, I think even you have to admit, a kind of a hate-y thing to say about somebody. Remove the comments calling her a “bitch” and a “cunt” and a “bint.” Remove the barely comprehensible but clearly hateful comment from AVFM contributor Dr. F (Ian Williams) comparing her to some sort of animal. Remove ImNotMraBut’s surreal, and exceedingly nasty, comment fantasizing about finding her body “at the back of the Women’s Locker room, crucified up-side down and set on fire with Lard from the Federal Pork Barrel Buffet used as a substitute for Napalm.” I mean, what the hell.

3) Of course, this isn’t the first time that AVFM has launched a giant hatefest aimed at a particular woman. Oh, no. Not by a long shot. Indeed, launching campaigns of hatred against individual women (and, once in a long while, individual men) seems to be AVFM’s primary form of, er, “activism.” And it’s certainly the only kind of, er, “activism” it’s any good at.

It’s telling that AVFM rarely targets truly influential or even particularly famous women for its attacks, with the notable exception of one comedic actress. No, AVFM instead tends to target women it thinks it has a better chance of really hurting – from female bloggers and journalists to individual student activists. Going after vulnerable individuals: In this way, as in many other ways, the principals at AVFM think and act like abusers.

And so, Ms. James, after you and your colleagues are done taking down the vicious posts and comments about the red-haired activist, I would recommend that you and your colleagues at AVFM renounce altogether, and apologize for, the site’s strategy of demonizing individual women. While you’re at it, go back and scrub all posts and comments of misogynistic terms like “cunt” and “bitch” and “fuckmuffin,” either directed at individual women or at large swaths of womanhood. Scrub all posts and comments of the term “mangina.” I would provide links here, but I would have to pretty much link to every AVFM post and comment thread. (If anyone can find posts and/or comment threads on AVFM that are actually free of misogynistic language, please let me know.)

4) Then take down Register-Her, your phony “offenders registry” devoted to demonizing feminist writers and activists as well as other women (from “Mommy bloggers” to comedic actresses) who have somehow managed to offend the AVFM crowd.

In no way are writers like Jessica Valenti, or actresses like Katherine Heigl, or any of the other women listed as “bigots” on Register-Her the “moral equivalents” of the “pedophiles, rapists, murderers and other violent criminals” you have listed elsewhere on that site. Most of the alleged “bigotry” cited on Register-Her is trumped-up nonsense. Putting these women on your phony “registry” is a clear and deliberate attempt to intimidate them, both by making them fear for their personal safety and by deliberately trying to tarnish their reputation and hurt  their chances of future employment. Again, these are total douche moves on your part.

You can read more of the dirty details about Register-Her here, in case you’ve forgotten.

5) Stop using violent and threatening language when referring to your ideological opponents – and apologize for past instances in which such hateful language has been used. You might start off by having your boss Paul Elam apologize for his notorious comments suggesting that he finds feminist-bashing to be sexually arousing:

I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage.  I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …

We are coming for you, and we are coming for all the liars out there that have been ruining people’s lives with impunity. …

 You are SO fucked.

I know Mr. Elam is probably very proud of his work here, but you should know that to most decent human beings it comes off a tad, well, unhinged? As well as — here comes that H-word again! — hateful. Let’s put it this way: I’m fairly certain that this post by Mr. Elam will never end up next to Martin Luther King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail” in any anthology of the writings of famous human rights visionaries.

6) And while you’re at it, drop the hateful and threatening (and rather potty-mouthed) slogan “Fuck Their Shit Up.” Is that really the slogan you want your site and your movement to be remembered by? Do you kiss your mother with that slogan?

7) Renounce the site’s policy “to seek out and make public the identities” of opponents, a policy reiterated as recently as last weekend by Mr. Elam. Now, Mr. Elam insists that this policy only applies to “individuals who break the law or who indisputably attempt to harass, bully or abridge the free expression of others in the furtherance of their ideology.” But a quick look at those listed in Register-Her’s “bigots” category makes clear that AVFM has an extreeeeeeemely broad notion of what counts as lawbreaking or harassment or bullying, at least when it comes to people who aren’t MRAs. How is Katherine Heigl breaking the law, or harassing or bullying or abridging anyone’s free expression?

8) After renouncing doxing as a policy, frankly apologize for each and every one of A Voice for Men’s threats to dox individual women in the past.

You might start by having Mr. Elam apologize for the comments he made on AVFM radio in which he said that Register-Her would be used to post the personal information of female “false accusers.” In case you have forgotten, here is the relevant clip from that radio show.

If for some reason that clip does not play properly on your computer, here’s the money quote:

[If] Mary Jane Rottencrotch out there wants to say that her husband beat her just for the sake of gaining leverage in a divorce, he will now have a resource where he can come and post your name, your picture, your work telephone number, your address, perhaps even your route that you take to get to work, if you bother to have a job.

Yes, that’s right: “the route that you take to get to work.”

In case you’ve forgotten this promise of his, you can find Mr. Elam’s comments on the AVFM radio show that ran on June 28, 2011 titled “FTSU Big Time.” They appear about ten minutes into the show.

Once Mr. Elam has clearly and publicly renounced this statement, I would suggest that he apologize for the $1000 bounty he once offered to anyone able to supply him with the personal information of a number of Swedish feminists.

No, that wasn’t a weird dream. He really did that.

9) Apologize for the cavalier attitude shown by AVFM’s principals to the possibility that revealing the personal information of opponents could  put these people in actual physical danger. You might start by having AVFM’s John Hembling (“John The Other”) apologize for these comments about the Swedish feminists targeted by AVFM, in which he frankly acknowledged the dangers that AVFM’s strategy could pose to the personal safety of those it was targeting:

Some individuals may criticize the intent to publish not only names, but also addresses, phone numbers, employers and other personal information – on the grounds that such exposure create a risk of retributive violence against individuals who openly advocate murder based on sex. It is the considered position of the editorial board of AVfM that any such risks are out-weighed by the ongoing hazard to the public of these individuals continuing to operate in anonymity.

Emphasis mine.

In case you are wondering, the feminists in question did not, in fact, “openly advocate murder based on sex,” or murder based on anything at all.  In an attempt to promote a theatrical production based on Valerie Solanas’ SCUM Manifesto, they made a brief video in which a woman pretended to shoot a man. You may find many examples of similar if much longer videos available on a site called Netflix. There’s even one called Basic Instinct in which actress Sharon Stone pretends to murder a man with an ice pick. No, really. With an ICE PICK! There are also videos in which men pretend to shoot other men, if you prefer that, and even some in which men pretend to kill women in a variety of inventive ways.

When he is done with that apology, Mr. Hembling may wish to apologize for another statement he made to me on the same subject:

jto

Mr. Hembling might want to then move on to apologizing for this statement of his, which he posted on AVFM and on the Men’s Rights subreddit as a sort of preemptive rebuttal to critics who might point out the obvious fact that posting someone’s personal information could put them at risk. (I’m not sure I’ve ever run across someone so insistently cavalier as Mr. Hembling about the possibility that something he’s done might cause someone else physical harm.)

If some pea-brain wishes to claim that publication and public accountability is dangerous because it might facilitate some bad-brained moron to engage in retributive violence – kindly provide a workable mechanism for public accountability which is totally and perfectly safe – then criticize us for not using it. Until then, SFTU.

And you, Ms. James, may wish to apologize for your own blithe dismissal of the sort of harassment that the red-haired activist has been receiving.

typhonkafoodle

If you had read the post of mine you were ostensibly responding to, you would have seen that the activist in question did in fact get one very blunt and direct death threat. (And she did report it to police.)

She also received not one, not two, but literally of hundreds of other threatening comments, many of them wishing death, rape or other forms of physical and/or sexual violence upon her, with one YouTube commenter going so far as to announce –TRIGGER WARNING – that he “would actually cum while cutting that bitch’s throat.”

It may be possible for some people to brush off one or even several “I hope you die” comments. It’s a bit harder to brush off several hundred of them – especially when some of these threatening remarks contain your address and phone number. That’s not really “kafoodling,” now, is it?

I’m a little perplexed that you didn’t understand this, as I posted literally dozens of examples of these comments in my earlier post. You did read that, didn’t you? I mean, you were offering your opinions about it in a public space, so I can only assume you read it, then somehow instantly forgot the dozens of horrendous comments I posted there, which were of course only a fraction of the total number received by the activist you and your colleagues hate so much. (There’s that pesky H-word again!)

10) Remove the personal photos of feminist writer Jessica Valenti that Mr. Elam posted to AVFM without her permission in an attempt to embarrass her. I won’t link to the post in this case; you can find it. I’m not quite sure that Mr. Elam realizes that by posting these photos he’s embarrassed himself far more than he’s embarrassed Valenti, as his actions reveal him to be a sad, angry, petulant old man, and one obviously jealous that Valenti, roughly half his age, has already had a far more successful career as a writer than he ever will. Also, she’s not a morally bankrupt asshat.

11) Publicly renounce and ban AVFM contributors and commenters who have engaged in doxing,  threatening or harassing of opponents. You might start by banning long-time AVFM “activist” Frank James Spencer, otherwise known as KARMA MRA MGTOW, who recently gave me a decidedly non-friendly phone call at 1:38 AM to inform me, in falsetto, that “feminism will die,” a classic example of the sort of personal harassment that you would think anyone purporting to be in a “human rights movement” would want to distance itself from.

12) And finally: Take down, and apologize for posting, the terrorist manifesto by Men’s Rights Activist Thomas Ball you’ve got up in your site’s “activism” section. You know, the one that calls on men to literally firebomb courthouses and police stations, and which frankly acknowledges that such firebombing could very well cause many deaths.

I can’t believe that any group purporting to advocate for “human rights” would want to have this on their website, especially in the wake of the recent events in Boston.

Do any of you people have any sort of moral compass at all? Do you even know what a moral compass is?

Of course, I am under no illusion that AVFM will take even one of the twelve steps I have recommended. I spelled them out mainly to make a simple point:

After years and years of this shit, after literally offering literal $1,000 bounties for the personal information of your enemies, and while a literal terrorist manifesto remains posted on your website, you don’t really get to pretend that you’re shocked – shocked! – to find doxing and harassing going on in your Men’s Rights movement.

And this has implications beyond A Voice for Men and those associated with it.

A Voice for Men has, for better or worse, made itself the most influential Men’s Rights site online, and has begun bringing its particular form of “activism” to the real world as well. As such, helps to set the tone for the Men’s Rights movement as a whole, and to define the movement in the eyes of the public. And you guys are doing a bang-up job of it, he said sarcastically.

By sometimes excusing, other times encouraging, and in some cases directly fomenting, campaigns of bullying and harassment aimed at individual women, AVFM is helping to ensure that the entire Men’s Rights Movement, such as it is, goes down in history not as a human rights movement but as a reactionary hate group that has more in common with the White Citizens Councils of the 1950s and 1960s than with, say, the civil rights movement of Dr. Martin Luther King.

Ms. James: The people harassing and doxing and threatening to dox women are your people – some of them quite  literally your regular readers and commenters and contributors, and others “your people” in spirit. That is, hateful, spiteful misogynists and would-be terrorizers of women. These are your people, and you’re welcome to them.

But there are a lot more of us out there than there are of you, and ultimately you and the rest of the so-called Men’s Rights Movement — sorry, Men’s Human Rights Movement — will go the ways of the White Citizens Councils you’re increasingly growing to resemble.

NOTE TO MRA DOOFUSES: Yes, I am using the real names of the AVFM folks. Lest you assume I am doxing them, you should probably know that the AVFM folks, after several years of hypocritically doxing people while claiming it was unfair for anyone to know their real names, finally gave up and started using their real names on their site. Heck, I didn’t know That Typhon Blue wasn’t actually named Typhon Blue until I read it on AVFM recently. This makes me wonder about other weird names I’ve run across. Might they be fake too? Surely “Wolf Blitzer” can’t be that guy’s real name. It’s probably just “Wally Blevins” or something like that.

NOTE TO FANS OF CORRECT SPELLING: Sorry for the typo in the name of the sound clip. I’m not sure how to fix it and too lazy to find out.

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Falconer
7 years ago

@Cthulhu’s Intern: I’m really worried about Daredevil’s neck in that first panel.

Fade
7 years ago

Oh, yeah, Indiana public school sex ed…

Teacher holds up two paper hearts and puts them together: These are two people in a relationship. They did not have sex. See how easily they can separate (she separates the hearts)

Teacher holds up two paper hearts and glues them together: These are two people in a relationship who have head sex. See how messy it is when they separate (she separates the hearts and pieces of paper stick to each other and get ripped off b/c of the glue)

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

@Falconer: Eh, it’s comic book art. Their bodies tend to defy all laws of biology and common sense. All men are agile with a ridiculous amount of muscle and all women always stand in a way that makes both their ass and their breasts prominent.

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

And sex ed where I went to (some private school in central Pennsylvania) was for 7th and 8th grade, NO SEX EVER. YOUR GENITALS WILL ROT OFF. Right after that, 9th grade, it changed to “It’s OK to have sex if you feel like you’re ready and if both people enthusiastically consent. Just remember birth control.”

katz
7 years ago

Oh, Deadpool, never change.

Marie
7 years ago

@Cthulhu’s Intern

Yeah. :/ I’ve got all the rants about sex ed. Thinking back, I think most of my sex ed in 7/8 grade was about STDs, though sadly in ninth grade it did not get better 🙁

katz
7 years ago

I’m sure JtO also thinks jammy dodgers are self-destruct buttons.

Fade
7 years ago

Oh, sixth grade health was hilarious. It was very similar to the DON”T HAVE SEX YOUR GENITALS WILL ROT OFF thing you described. We spent, like… all year learning about all of the STDs. And putting them in tables and talking about how common they were and all of the icky side effects. All I remember about that class was being really bored and wishing I was at gym… Also that All Sex Will Kill You.

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

And then when I transferred to the Learning Difference School, the sex ed was non-existent. Literally. They did not teach that at all. Not anti-sex, not pro-sex. I guess they just left it up to the parents. Or the Internet. I dunno.

katz
7 years ago

Talking about states sucking, I swear there was a tumblr that penalized different states for the shitty/stupid stuff their inhabitants and politicians did and kept a running total of which state scored the lowest. Anyone remember this?

Aaliyah
7 years ago

I was unschooled, so I didn’t have a sex ed class. I just learned about everything through Wikipedia, teen health websites, and my older siblings. Seriously.

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

Fun fact: Remember that one video during Election Day in which that one guy was trying to vote for Obama but it switched to Romney? That came from my county. A total redneck shithole of a county. My friends and I joked “Good thing the only guy in that particular county voting for Obama noticed that problem.”

Marie
7 years ago

@Cthulhu’s Intern

Learning Difference School? Sorry, just don’t know what it means. (unless its a school name and I just mis-understood.) Repeating myself here, but my sex ed between junior high and high school was pretty similar, sans bs fakey science reasons we shouldn’t have sex in junior high, but they were in the same school district :/ Gah. I have all the rants about this. I didn’t get any info from my parents either, until recently, and I had to ask my mom for it. So I started out heavily internet educated. I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing yet.

/rambling.

Sarah Rose
Sarah Rose
7 years ago

No matter the name that the manosphere crowd likes to give themselves, can we just call them anti-feminists, misogynists, a hate group, or violent extremists from now on? No one out there thinks of Neo-Nazis as “activists.” Is it time to stop calling these AVFM people “men’s rights activists” so as not to be confused with people that actually do facilitate men’s movements such as “Movember”, that worldwide campaign for prostate cancer research?

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

@Marie: Learning differences: Autism, dyslexia, ADHD, Asperger’s. That fun stuff.

Marie
7 years ago

@katz

Talking about states sucking, I swear there was a tumblr that penalized different states for the shitty/stupid stuff their inhabitants and politicians did and kept a running total of which state scored the lowest. Anyone remember this?

Don’t remember it, but it would be nice to see if anyone actually finds it 🙂

Marie
7 years ago

@cthulhu’s intern

thanks 🙂 Just either hadn’t heard them called that before, or had and had forgotten.

baroncognito
7 years ago

Teacher holds up two paper hearts and puts them together: These are two people in a relationship. They did not have sex. See how easily they can separate (she separates the hearts)

You know, in my experience, not having sex didn’t make the break-up easier.

AK
AK
7 years ago

@Sarah Rose, I agree with you, but I think the problem is that MRAs are people specifically identified with a particular movement, while there are sadly a lot of other misogynists and anti-feminists out there who aren’t MRAs. So I’d be all for another term (similar to using anti-choice rather than pro-life), but I think it has to be more specific than just calling them anti-feminists or misogynists.

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

OT, but bad news: The House of Representatives just passed CISPA.
http://www.businessinsider.com/congress-passes-cispa-cybersecurity-bill-2013-4#ixzz2QrSge400

Marie
7 years ago

@cthulhu’s intern

Oh joy. I fucking hate America. >:(

Aaliyah
7 years ago

Oh dear.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Remember when the Tea Party were fussing about the New Black Panther Party and how they were intimidating white folks from voting, and the footage they had was just a nicely dressed young black man opening the door to the polling place for little old white ladies? JtO has a certain Tea Party quality to him.

Marie
7 years ago

@cloudiah

O_o Wow @the Tea Party. That’s so…surreal.

Cthulhu's Intern
7 years ago

@cloudiah: I don’t remember that, actually. Can you post the video?

cloudiah
7 years ago

This is what Ms Getta Lode referred to — make your popcorn no:
http://reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ckvgo/woman_who_works_at_college_admissions_rejects/c9hp3iv

Cthulhu’s Intern, I will see if I can find video. I think I saw it covered on either Colbert or the Daily Show…

cloudiah
7 years ago

Here ya go, skip to 0:58 to see him opening the door for people:

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

Talking about states sucking, I swear there was a tumblr that penalized different states for the shitty/stupid stuff their inhabitants and politicians did and kept a running total of which state scored the lowest. Anyone remember this?

I want to see that list, too. As long as Missouri beats Kansas, I’m happy. I don’t think we can compete with Arkansas, though. They’re a lot more progressive because of Eureka Springs and Little Rock.

Ms Getta Lode
Ms Getta Lode
7 years ago

Oh, goodie, not on my phone anymore 🙂 Okay, here goes:

cloudiah nailed it re:MRA mod/doxxing/admin kerfuffle today but here are some other links to flesh this tale out:

http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1cmhw9/rmensrights_vs_admin_if_you_moderate_a_subreddit/

http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/1cmbsj/admin_uintortus_chastises_mensright_mod_usillymod/

http://www.reddit.com/r/SRSMeta/comments/1cmkln/admin_bans_mr_mod_for_facilitating_doxxing/

All VERY entertaining.

As far as Ohio: I grew up in Michigan, and had very good sex ed classes in the public schools in my hometown. The majority of my Ohio-born friends report absolutely NO SEX ED. I don’t know how this is the slightest bit defensible to anyone – I mean, even if a kid is well-behaved, doesn’t get sexually assaulted, saves it for marriage … at some point they’re gonna have to understand the basics of sex, pregnancy and so on. I had a terrible moment a few years ago after I got an IUD, wherein I had to explain to my own mother that it didn’t go where tampons go (she had C-sections for all her kids). Adults not knowing the difference between a vagina and a uterus – that is downright dangerous in my opinion!

But now the state House is working on passing something here that forbids – with the threat of a fine up to $5000 – discussion of “gateway sexual activity” that goes past “DON’T FUCKING DO IT KIDS”, as well as goddamn defunding PP. A few links, because I’m bad at summarizing:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/17/ohio_lawmakers_advance_measure_to_ban_discussing_gateway_sexual_activity_in_sex_education/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/ohio-sex-education_n_3109223.html

It bums me out and infuriates me.

Ms Getta Lode
Ms Getta Lode
7 years ago

Ooh, here is an archive of the MR mod comment that the admin responded to! http://archive.is/5MWYZ

cloudiah
7 years ago

http://madagascari.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/i-feel-fine/

Can anyone screencap the comments? This is supposed to be the blog of the person they’re doxxing. r/mr seems to have figured out that this is likely an impersonation/hoax, but AVfM of course is even stupider.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

This made me grin. I post it as a bit of brain-bleach:
comment image

katz
7 years ago

Great, now this is going to bug me. It’s worse than not remembering the name of a movie.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Bless you, David. 😀

opheliamonarch
opheliamonarch
7 years ago

I did post earlier, de-lurking. I don’t think anyone read it as it was my first post and had to be moderated, so didn’t appear when I wrote it.
Anyway, just wanted to add to what I said earlier that, whilst feeling poorly and up all night (it’s 5:50 AM in the UK) I have really enjoyed the links you all posted, and am so glad David managed to get those screen grabs.
Anyway, thank you everyone.
Hope that made sense, I realise my grammar etc is probably awful, and my earlier post probably made no sense at all. Please don’t judge me too harshly, I am a poor, poorly, addled fool right now.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

Ophelia: Your welcome-package will doubtless be along soon, and I just wanna say right off that that is a GORGEOUS cat in your gravatar!

katz
7 years ago

I’m not in charge of the rest of the basket, but here’s a bowl-o-kitty.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Blame Captain Jack Harkness for the delayed basket(s) — I started my mother on Miracle Day and ended up having to send her to her room!

So then, without further ado, the complementary welcome package consisting of an antique misandrist hard chair, matching bath towels, SCENTED MOTHERFUCKING CANDLES, flavored bottled water (your choice of brand and flavor) and cupcakes, delivered by female (whore) penguins in spanx!

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Um katz? That isn’t a bowl of cats.

katz
7 years ago

It’s a bowl of one cat, unless it isn’t displaying properly?

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

It seems to be more of a Cup-o-Kitty, really… Look at the handle. Mind you, it IS amazingly cute.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
7 years ago

Rape threats? I call that kafoodling! Haha!

What an absolute piece of shit.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Ok that’s just weird. First time I clicked it I got the Avengers and that guy from Castle. So cute, but not feline. Now it’s a cat in a glass bowl/dish/yep.

And no, the first image wasn’t in my cache. *cue Twilight Zone music*

Also, this fucking week! Boston, again, and IL and IN are flooding. And I’m waiting for a plague of locusts at this point.

katz
7 years ago

Freemage posted the Avengers pic here; no clue how it got crossed with mine. Do we have link gremlins along with our blockquote monster?

opheliamonarch
opheliamonarch
7 years ago

Argenti Aertheri, thank you so much for my welcome package 🙂
I’ve been lurking for so long, I thought it was about time I started talking.
It is a bit intimidating though, you all seem so fabulous I feel a bit like I can’t add anything.
I so wanted to start talking whenever my beloved Terry Pratchett came up though.

Katz, Oh, I love the kitty 🙂

Freemage, she is gorgeous isn’t she? Although if I’d panned out a bit you’d see her raggedy ear. She had a bit of a mishap when she was a kitten and it hasn’t been the same since.
Her name’s Boudica, Boo to her friends, and she’s not nearly as cool as she likes to make out.

On that note, I’m going to try and sleep now, it’s 8AM here, and I’ve been up all night.
Reading what I’ve just written, I’m not entirely sure I’m making much sense..must..sleep..

Hopefully I will dream about Nanny Ogg with a bowl-o-Greebo.

*sings* ‘oh a wizards staff has a knob on the end….’

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

opheliamonach — I can’t really speak for anyone else, but the initial intimidation to join in seems common — I sure had it!

*downs more coffee* so I haven’t read Prachett, but I’m apparently maledict. But you can call me Argenti 🙂

Katz — let’s blame my inability to properly work links on the iPad. Must’ve thought I opened both and only got freemage’s.

BritterSweet
BritterSweet
7 years ago

David Futrelle, you have taken your misandry too far! How dare you try to shove your common sense and human decency down those poor menz’ throats!! And how dare you cite your sources, provide links and back your claims with evidence like recordings!

Your punishment shall be: Death by Sleeping Kitty and Baby!!

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Citations are misandry, that was established ages ago! (As are conditional clauses, as in “as long as men think a drunk girl is an easy lay, they need to be taught how not rape” = “all men are rapists”)

Babies are definitely misandry — sperm jacking and child support and alimony and it’s modern slavery! (Note to MRAs, if you want to call something slavery, it damned well better be slavery)

Jessay (@jessay)
7 years ago

OT but have we, as a comment section community of sorts, ever tackled the claim that Canadian women out earn men when factoring in education and industry? Some jerkoff is trying to debate me on a forum by erasing women’s history, derailing by playing oppression olympics, and making claims without backing them up with sources.

The only thing I can find that makes such a claim is a series of IT blog articles all mentioning, but not citing so that we can review it ourselves, a survey by CIOCAN

http://www.cio.com/article/497553/CIO_Salary_Shocker_Canadian_Women_Out_Earn_Men_

I haven’t been able to find the actual survey to review the methodology, but so far there are multiple common red flags that show this as an unreliable source.

1. It only surveyed 100 people.
2. Of those people only 18 were women.
3. It was not random, but solicited members of the organization who are in a very specific field.

I’m assuming it wasn’t anonymous because of that but I can’t be sure because I can’t find the actual survey to check. I’m just wondering if this one has been debunked in the past so I can get the facts straight. So fucking sick of MRA types making unsubstantiated claims and putting the onus on me to prove them wrong.