So the Men’s Rights subreddit has temporarily relaxed its policy of not allowing links to the terrible cesspool of lies that is Man Boobz to allow this post attacking me for detailing the disgusting threats and harassment a certain Canadian feminist activist has faced in recent days.
Most of the commenters flatly ignored the evidence of doxing and harassment that I included in my post — if they even bothered to read it — and simply invented their own story of what had happened. Instead of denouncing those who left death threats, they attacked me and the activist in question. And blamed all the ugliness on “trolls.”
Men’s Rights regular Sigil1, who used to post awful comments on Man Boobz as Eoghan (and using countless other sockpuppet accounts) responded in an all-too-predictable fashion, by falsely accusing me of making “false accusations” against MRAs.
You may recall that in my post I offered two pieces of evidence that showed that MRAs were involved in posting this woman’s personal information on the internet — that is, doxing her. One was a large screenshot from a Men’s Rights forum containing a wide array of her personal information including phone numbers and her home address. I also noted that the A Voice for Men forum featured links to several of her dating profiles.
In other words, these are clearly MRAs, and they have been disseminating her personal information — that is, doxing — her. To repeat, and I’m sorry that I have to repeat such an utterly simpleminded point: THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE (WHO ARE MRAS) ARE DOXING HER MEANS THAT MRAS HAVE BEEN DOXING HER. Other people who are probably not MRAs have also been doxing her.
In the Reddit thread, giegerwasright complains that “they” — meaning me –“are also moving the goalposts on doxxing to suit their needs.” Well, no. I’d say that a post on a Men’s Rights forum that includes her picture, links to her Facebook page, her Tumblr blog, her YouTube account, her old Twitter account, a dating profile, her home address and two phone numbers is “doxing” by pretty much everyone’s definition of the term.
As anyone who looks at the large screenshot I posted earlier would see, its author — a famous MRA spammer who goes by the name John Rambo — urged men to “contact her through one of the below methods and ask her why she hates men so much.”
In my earlier post I showed you the sort of horrific stuff many of those who have been contacting her have been saying.
Did I provide proof that any of these threatening and harassing comments were from MRAs? Well, aside from one message from A Voice for Men’s Dan Perrins, which was more of a gloating message than a threatening one, no. Part of the reason for this is that most of the direct threats sent to the activist were sent — wait for it — anonymously. That’s how threat-makers generally do things. Cuts down the possibility of getting in trouble.
As for the YouTube comments, I didn’t check. Why? Because, given that the video in question was titled “mras and feminists arguing at u of t mra event,” and that the video was linked to on assorted Men’s Rights sites including the Men’s Rights subreddit and A Voice for Men, I figured that the odds were pretty good that a lot of them were MRAs; certainly the odds that none of them were MRAs were pretty much zero. (And of course I never claimed they were all MRAs.)
But as I sat down to write this post I found I was curious about these nasty YouTube people. So I did a little experiment. I went through the list of awful YouTube comments that I posted on Monday, and took at look at the YouTube feeds of the various commenters who left them to see if I could determine whether or not they were MRAs. I included only those who made threatening and/or misogynist comments, and left out a few that didn’t provide enough information for me to make an educated guess.
Here are the results. But first, a TRIGGER WARNING, because I quote liberally from their nasty, violent and often crudely sexual comments. (You can skim down to my summary of what I found if you wish to avoid the gruesome details.)
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YouTuber Kilz Bryce, who wished a gruesome “death by cheese grater” to the red-haired activist (henceforth RHA), is an otherwise unassuming Japanese fan of Taylor Swift and Carly Rae Jepsen. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.
Slurpos, who suggested shooting the RHA, is a racist conspiracy-monger who recently called MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry a “slut.” VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.
Joris667, who suggested a “cock up the arse,” recently “liked” an antifeminist video by Mykeru, who just happens to be a contributor to A Voice for Men. VERDICT: Possibly an MRA.
Damndisplace07, who suggested punching the RHA, has posted a bunch of rambling, ranty misogynistic videos on YouTube, some of which rely heavily on Manosphere ideology and jargon. VERDICT: Probably an MRA.
BusinessmanBandit is a young entrepreneur and goldbug who likes referring to women as “bitches.” VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.
Lazywhiteb0y, who “would love to punch this annoying cunt directly in the face,” is a fan of rap, country music, guns and beer. VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.
Akranejames, who also favors punching “this type of feminist,” is mostly obsessed with video games. But he also made a recent comment suggesting that we should abandon feminism and “machism” for “equalism,” and the only people I’ve ever heard use that ridiculous term have been hopeless MRA types. VERDICT: Probably an MRA, or at least a sometime reader of Mens’ Rights sites.
Leinster4life13, who wanted to ship her to Saudi Arabia, is a soccer enthusiast who also recently “liked” a video by the notoriously misogynistic Manhood Academy. VERDICT: Probably an MRA, or at least an MRA-in-training.
Chocolateking1, who made a joke about keeping “bitches” in the kitchen, seems to be, well, the sort of trolly asshole who thinks jokes about keeping “bitches” in the kitchen. VERDICT: Misogynist, probably not an MRA.
MadDogFritz, who railed about “feminazi propaganda” and made three separate comments on three different videos demanding to know “who is the the red headed pig monster with the attitude,” has recently commented on a number of MRA videos and is also a big fan of TheAmazingAtheist and his antifeminist rants. Also has complained about “women’s lib.” VERDICT: Seems pretty damn MRAish to me.
Robert alakaka, who declared that the RHA is “one of the most unlikable cunts in his [?] existence,” and that he “sincerely hopes she dies,” is a raging misogynist and homophobe who recently “liked” a video featuring the MRA-ish “Dick Masterson” explaining how “men are better than women.” Aaaaand he’s a fan of TheAmazingAtheist. VERDICT: Definitely MRA-ish.
TheTrueValkyrie66, who compared the RHA unfavorably to goatse, is also a fan of TheAmazingAtheist and — wait for it — MyLittlePony. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA, but seems to have stepped straight out of the Big Book of Redditor Stereotypes.
HUEHEUHE HEUHEUEH, who made a generic misogynist remark, seems to be a Brony. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.
EndlessCycleofPride, who declared “I hope you get raped,” is way into bodybuilding. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA, but a terrible person nonetheless.
Dominic Galvin, who declared “I want to punch her,” is a vintage car enthusiast and yet another fan of TheAmazingAtheist, especially his antifeminist rants. VERDICT: Possible MRA.
Corbbin Goldsmith, who suggested oral rape, is a software synth enthusiast and bedroom musician. VERDICT: An awful person, but there’s no indication he’s an MRA.
Amaurypenseur, who thinks that “feminists deserve rape as punishment,” is a weird Belgian who hates American culture, “hanker[s for] a society based on war, inequality and irrationally,” and is a sort-of fan of, um, Hitler. Verdict: Antifeminist (obviously) but probably not an MRA as such.
Theninja36, who wanted to “punch her in the face,” is a American gamer who seems a tad obsessed with Japan. VERDICT: Clearly hates feminists, as several of his comments attest, but there’s no indication he’s an MRA.
About all I can tell about Jack Ofalltrades, who made a crude, racist sexual suggestion, is that he’s a fan of the XFactor. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.
So what have we learned here, aside from the sad fact that going through the histories of a whole bunch of YouTubers takes a fuck of a lot longer than I thought it would when I started out? Well, a number of things.
Out of the nineteen horrible commenters I was able to determine anything about, only one, Chocolateking1, seems to even vaguely fit the stereotype of the amoral, lulz-seeking troll that our friend Sigil1 wants to blame for all this.
Most of the commenters have been on YouTube for some time, with most of them using the site as an outlet for their various obsessions, which may or may not include hating on feminism. In a few cases they seem to be posting under their real names, which makes it all the more amazing that they’re perfectly willing to post violent and/or sexual comments as if no one except the nasty feminists would find any of this at all objectionable. Virtually all of them seem to be genuinely and unashamedly misogynistic.
Eight of the nineteen commenters are explicitly antifeminist, which puts them more than halfway along the route to possible MRAhood. Six — roughly a third of the total — are probably MRAs, or at the very least consumers of Men’s Rights and/or Manosphere media. Four are fans of TheAmazingAtheist. (NOTE TO SELF: TheAmazingAtheist has some really, really shitty fans.)
So congratulations, fellas: only perhaps a third of the many hundreds of terrible people who have been harassing and threatening the activist in question on YouTube seem to be MRAs or MRA-adjacent. Given that the total number of MRAs in the world is probably less than the number of people who watched that one video, that’s pretty impressive.
The comments I looked at here, nonetheless, are only a small fraction of the total number of threatening and/or harassing comments about the red-haired activist that have been posted to YouTube, and that are still being posted as you read this. She also received hundreds of messages directly, most of them anonymous.
Even if most of these messages weren’t sent by people who identify explicitly as MRAs, a signficant proportion clearly were, so we’re still talking about many dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of MRAs and fellow travelers who decided that the appropriate response to the video of the red-haired activist was to fire off comments and messages calling her a “bitch” or a “cunt” or something equally odious — and/or suggesting that she should be punched, or raped or even killed.
This whole exercise has helped to make even clearer to me why so many MRAs have made their names posting videos on YouTube: Because YouTube is filled to overflowing with the sort of terrible people who think rape threats are hilarious and that GirlWritesWhat is a genius.
MRAs, these people are your audience. Your peeps. Your most likely source of future converts. (Well, maybe not that Belgian Hitler fan. He’s got some ideas about statutory rape of teen boys that are as likely to offend MRAs as they are to offend feminists.)
And you wonder why so many see the Men’s Rights movement as a hate movement. (Hint: It’s the hate.)
NOTE: My promised post reflecting a bit more on A Voice for Men’s role in this all should go up tomorrow.
Niters, everyone who’s off to bed! 🙂
Wow. The foodie in me is in agony. At one point he defines a marinade:
“What I do is make a marinade which is just like a sauce you let soak in before you cook, then put it in a bag covered in it.”
Hahahahaha. I’m giddy. Jesus. See? not everyone can be a food writer. Then:
“That way those ice crystals suck the flavor out of the juice instead of the meat.”
I bet he makes hot dog soup, thinking it’s gourmet. *Snicker-snort*
Err, how many times do we have to explain that Solanas never identified as a feminist. Jesus, it’s remedial night, I guess.
Toonces can drive.
But not very well.
Its LIKE not being self sufficient?
Dude, not learning how to cook more than a pizza pop is definitely parking you in the not self sufficient catagory.
Baking is for chatty women in PTA meetings? Someone better tell the worlds leading pastry and dessert chefs that…they are overwhelmingly male.
And dude, your cooking skills and the skills you presume your audience has may not be much past the average five year olds… But your explanations should sound more like you’re actually talking to an adult.
I think he might’ve, from the exact same teacher. But I’d need to know his morning height to confirm.
G’night to the folks heading to bed!
Oh and ice cream can get freezer burn apparently. I am both amazed, and pissed. My Ben and Jerry’s has icicles!
Ice cream has to be eaten within 72 hours or it starts to deteriorate.
“Toonces can drive.
But not very well.”
Hahahaha! The Toonces sketch with Linda Hamilton was one of the best.
More giddy. I’m sorry, I can’t help it…bad food writing leaves me in stitches!
O.k I’ve read Clint’s comments, the responses and his blogs.
Clint, you’re full of shit as confirmed by this http://doccarnage.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/get-shorty/
I assume you are trying to make a clever point about something. Care to illuminate. For me it just read like bollocks.
By the way you are a liar, you just don’t like loud opinionated women.
I realize that there are a lot of people who do not cook or who think burning a chunk of meat is cooking. What I can’t figure out is why.
I don’t think burning a chunk of meat is cooking, but I don’t cook because I never learned, never had the incentive and was never interested.
Ohhh, this guy is funny. Look:
“There’s just the two of us, so I’m going to cut a couple pounds off and put it in the freezer, the rest is going to be lunch for a week. Now here is the first trick I’m going to teach you. Meat left in the freezer for a long time gets weird ice crystals on it and they suck all the flavor of the meat out.”
*giggle fit* He’s teaching everyone a “trick.” Hahahahahahahaha!
Oh shit, the editors at Bon Appetit would faint. Crystals are leeches? Oh wow. tell us more.
My mother used to say that if you can read a cookbook you can cook. My experience in cooking and training other cooks says there’s a little more to it. One of the things is being familiar with the foods you are preparing. If you’re cooking a dish you’ve never even heard of before, let alone tasted…well its pretty hard to know how well it turned out beyond “yeah, I’d eat this again”.
I think that Clint wanting to cook and show other people how to cook is a great thing. And a simple marinade is a quick and easy way to add some variety to your meals. Its the patronizing way he explains the why and how of cooking that turns me off.
No, clint actually doesn’t know what he’s talking about. And he’s a bad writer.
Oh, and this:
I encountered and looked up the term “Curate’s Egg” recently.
Naturally, I thought of the MRM.
pillowinhell, I agree. Things like cooking times or temperatures or what texture something’s supposed to have when you mix ingredients – I look at recipes and might as well be trying to read a book with half the pages torn out. Not to mention that it’s all “serves four/six/eight” and I’d be cooking for two at best (it doesn’t help that Mum’s even less inclined to try different foods than I am). The kitchen isn’t a place of adventure for me, it’s intimidating. It’s not like “Oh, I knitted this and it didn’t work, I’ll have to undo it”; if the food is inedible it’s wasted and I still don’t have a meal. I hate that prospect.
Most of the people I’ve taught how to cook in the restaurant were highschool and college kids. In their cases, they were so focused on their schooling and future careers they didn’t have the time to learn. Either their parents prepared the meals or they were on a student meal plan.
As for others, depends on how much enjoyment in experiencing the different flavors and textures of food is. If food is just something you shovel in to keep going then there isn’t much incentive to learn more than is necessary to prevent burning dinner.
For other people, its an important way of expressing their creativity, or certain dishes are learned to perfection to express their love for the person they made it for.
“As for others, depends on how much enjoyment in experiencing the different flavors and textures of food is. If food is just something you shovel in to keep going then there isn’t much incentive to learn more than is necessary to prevent burning dinner.”
This. There’s food I like, but if I didn’t have to eat here, I wouldn’t. I like playing around in the kitchen There, but that’s different.
The only cooking lessons I had were at high school for a year or two and I hated them. Having an impatient old teacher didn’t help; it was very much “do this, this and this and get graded for it,” rather than there being the time or notion of introducing cooking as something enjoyable.
Kitteh, one thing I do when I want to make something I’ve never tried before is find a restaurant or bakery that sells it. At least then I’ve seen and tasted a well prepared dish.
My first experiments in baking (I left home knowing how to prepare basic meals) I made what can only be described of as dwarf battle bread (and to this day I STILL have no idea what went so horribly wrong) and pledge pie. The pie crust was like poured concrete (if the dough for pie pastry is a little too dry to hold together, try adding another tablespoon of lard/butter/shortening NOT more water!)
Yup, you bet some dishes will be ruined. Its just part of learning anything new.
The mainstream media really needs to shine a light on these guys.
Not the Scone of Stone! 😀
Oh yes. The Scone of Stone. Long and dreary was the hour I spent gnawing on it, trying to moisten it with my frustrated tears.
Dwarf battle bread, just like my mother used to pound out on the anvil.
A traveller can go for miles, just knowing there is dwarf bread in their pack.
And this isn’t 4channers.
“Yeah, let’s just ignore the fact that the majority of rapists are male. (And no, bringing up the CDC study isn’t going to help him). Teaching men not to rape doesn’t rely on the assumption that all men are wild beasts – rather, it relies on the assumption that men need particular attention because most rapists are male. How this is hard for MRAs to understand, I have no idea.”
1) YET AGAIN I have no affiliation with MRAs
2) you managed to spectacularly miss the point. Most bank robbers are also men. That doesn’t mean that most men are bank robbers. My whole point was to point out how bigoted and hateful it is to paint men as rapists, and you paint men as rapists.
Clint
1) Yet again no one cares as you are basically defending them without being able to admit it, hiding it under the supposed intention to be fair
2)No one ever said men in general were rapists. What we say is that men in general need to be taught what rape is and how not to do it in order to counteract the consequences of rape culture. Women need to be taught too, btw., it teaches not only how not to rape but also to recognize rape apologia. That in turn would make people not defend rapists or blame the victim. That would make it possible for people to report a rape because they don’t have to fear as much social consequences, and less rapists would just get away with what they are doing.
My point is: you are missing the point. Completely.