And so the MRAs have found yet another woman to hate.
Earlier this month, as many of you no doubt know, a Men’s Rights group sponsored a lecture at the University of Toronto. The event drew protesters, and the protesters drew MRAs with video cameras. One of the MRAs filmed a confrontation between a red-haired feminist activist and a number of MRAs who continually interrupted her as she tried to read a brief statement.
Her crime? She wasn’t exactly polite in responding to the interrupters. And so, after video of the confrontation was uploaded to YouTube, and linked to on the Men’s Rights subreddit and elsewhere, she became a virtual punching bag for the angry misogynists of the internet.
A Voice for Men, naturally, led the charge, running an article by Canadian MRA Dan Perrins labeling her “Little red frothing fornication mouth” and commenting on her breasts. The Amazing Atheist weighed in with a video I couldn’t bring myself to even watch.
Since being targeted by angry YouTube misogynists and MRAs, the red-haired activist has received death threats, rape threats and literally hundreds of other hateful and harassing messages. She’s also been “doxxed” — that is, she’s had her personal information plastered all over the internet, including on A Voice for Men’s forum. Ten days after being uploaded to YouTube, the video of her faceoff against the MRAs has garnered more than 300,000 views, and YouTubers are still leaving threats and insults and crude sexual comments.
This, apparently, is what “Men’s Human Rights Activism” consists of: the doxxing and harassment of individual women.
Several days ago, she contacted me to tell me about the harassment she’s endured. Here’s some of what she wrote:
I’m the red-head. I’m sure by now, you’re one of the 260,000 people who have seen the video of me … .
Because I had the audacity to tell a dude to stfu, an MRA no less, I have since been the target of not only just online misogyny (as if that’s a surprise) but cyber stalking, rape and death threats. They somehow found my facebook, they found my tumblr, they found a twitter acct that I don’t even use, they even found an old [dating site] profile of mine with outdated info …
I also got an anonymous message on tumblr that specifically said “[name deleted] would be disappointed”. [Name deleted] is my dog that died 1.5 years ago, I don’t talk about him on tumblr, nor fb, so they would have had to reaaaaalllly dig to find this info. …
In about 12-24hours, I got about400-500 new messages on my blog, most of them hate, which included rape and death threats, also people wishing death upon me or the typical troll “kill yourself” message. They made a meme of me.
I dunno how many haters I have, and I don’t know where they are. I can’t be sure at any given second, if I’m ever outside my house … if anyone is going to recognize me and try to hurt me.
With her permission, I am reposting screenshots she sent me documenting some of the harassment she’s endured. Even though her personal information has already been widely disseminated online, I don’t want to contribute to that, so I’ve whited out any information that might reveal her identity.
TRIGGER WARNING for what follows, for threatening language and crude sexual remarks.
Here’s a death threat she received from someone claiming to represent the “Islamic Brotherhood.”
Here are some sample comments from her Tumblr inbox. I’ve whited out comments and parts of comments that consist of her contact info, which being sent to her in an attempt to intimidate and frighten her by letting her know they “know where she lives.”
Here’s another threatening comment sent to her via Tumblr:
Here are some comments sent to her via her YouTube account. You’ll notice that the second comment comes from AVFM’s Dan Perrins, who is clearly relishing the attacks on her.
And another glimpse into her YouTube inbox:
Here’s a screenshot from a Men’s Rights forum revealing her personal information.
Meanwhile, over on YouTube, the hateful comments continue to pile up. Here are some of the nastiest ones I’ve collected. I am deliberately posting a lot of them in an attempt to convey something of the relentless nature of the attacks on teh red-haired activist — though I should note I’ve only gone through a small portion of the total comments there and this doesn’t even reflect all of the awful ones I found. These are not in any particular order. I threw in a few non-threatening ones that struck me as a tad ironic or otherwise revealing.
Again, this is only a small fraction of the abuse she’s gotten on YouTube.
This is what happens when MRAs and other misogynists target a woman online. The only thing that’s surprising here is the sheer amount of the hateful comments.
I’ve seen no serious attempts from any MRAs to rein in this sort of hatred. A Voice for Men has tried to distance itself in a superficial way from some of the harassment it has played a central role in unleashing, with an official announcement asking readers to refrain from posting the personal information of the red-haired activist in the comments. Meanwhile, in the AVFM forum, comments linking to her defunct dating profiles remain up.
This is what MRA “activism” looks like.
Coming tomorrow: A more detailed look at AVFM’s role in the harassment.
Where are these men whose rights are being trampled on for being men?
Men can be oppressed for being a POC, gay, trans, disabled, mentally ill, poor, non-Christian etc. There are movements to address all these things and as a feminist who does my best to be intersectional I care about those things. But men are not in any way oppressed solely for being men. When they are oppressed it is due to being a member of some other marginalized group and has nothing to do with being a man.
WWTH – and they won’t be as oppressed as women in those groups are, because they will still carry male privilege.
To comment as a bystander in a thread such as this is entirely impossible. No matter what side you choose to pick there will always be some underlying bias in your opinion and for any one person to try and insist against this would be ludicrous. As such I will not try. Whether MRA or Feminist or just someone in between the idea of someone being attacked for any held belief is shamefully normal in this day and age. While the degree of hate she received and is probably still receiving is beyond anything anyone deserves if you trail through the crap and the hate so as to find the points being made on both sides you start to get some kind of picture.
Focus on one side works for a time, we always have needed an activist group to get the ball rolling and there will always be need for these groups. But to suggest that oppression is still one sided is looking through dirtied glass. Hey gender roles, yeah that’s the only thing oppressing the male spectrum right now. Listen to yourselves: Someone arrives to act as a mediator, to ask questions, and is given out to for being entitled and misogynistic. You in the simple act of trying to defend your point of view are in your own way oppressing a male voice. Just as some MRA’s oppressed her (not to the same degree but you get the point). An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, maybe if everyone wasn’t so busy arguing over, who’s right and who’s wrong we would actually get something done here. Everyone deserves equality, no preference, no oppression, but we are still a long way from that if we are still sitting here arguing over who is more oppressed and by whom.
So commenter’s I ask you honestly: What are you going to do about it?
Why is this thread such a boring necro troll magnet? :/
Why do people so enjoy necroing this thread? Because MRAs still aren’t over the dreaded red-haired feminist hurting their totally logical manfeels, that’s why.
Anyway, since I’m bored, here’s something for dksharp96.
I would say so, yes. Either you believe women are people and deserve to be treated equally with men, or you do not. This is the fundamental difference between feminists and MRAs. You can’t really hide behind ”well, I think women are kinda like people…”
First off: there are no real sides here. Trying to equate feminists with MRAs shows that you don’t really understand either. Secondly: Neutrality does not equal objectivity. Neutrality does not equal objectivity. Neutrality does not equal objectivity. Neutrality does not equal objectivity. Neutrality does not equal objectivity.
Did I forget something? Oh, yeah: Neutrality does not equal objectivity.
MRAs engage in doxxing and harassing people they don’t agree with, and they threaten feminists with rape and death. This blog right here mocks misogynists. Learn the difference.
What are you talking about? Oppression is one-sided, like shit that flows downwards. Women are not oppressing men. POC are not oppressing white people. Gay people are not oppressing straight people. Transpeople are not oppressing cis people. Poor people are not oppressing the rich. And so on. Unless you’re arguing that some unknown species of blue sexless aliens with no concept of money, gender identity and sexuality are oppressing everyone equally, your argument is kinda stupid.
Wait, I just re-read that, and realized that the argument would be stupid either way.
Also ”oppression is still one-sided”? (emphasis mine) Please don’t tell me you believe ”feminism has gone too far.”
Who are you talking about, exactly? This thread has been necro’ed by so many fucking trolls so many fucking times over that it’s really fucking hard to know which one you’re referring to. And anyway, context matters: Many people feign innocence and ”just asking questions” while arguing for horrible shit and doing some serious derailing. ”I’m just asking questions” is a common defense for assholes who have no intention of learning from the discussion, just to stir shit up. Can you point me to the comment of said ”mediator”, so that I can see for myself?
How do you oppress a voice, exactly? How does one go about oppressing a sound produced by vocal organs and transmitted through a medium, most commonly air? By preventing it from exiting the mouth? By containing it in a soundproof space? By designing a counterwave of the opposite frequency that cancels it?
Joking aside, I am a man. My ”voice” is not being ”oppressed” here, or anywhere else. The reason people go hard on the trolls here is because they’re assholes, not because they’re men. One crucial detail that you need to understand in order to not seem like a total newbie in conversations about gender dynamics: we men, as a group, are not oppressed. At all. There are other factors (see intersectionality) that may disadvantage men, but men are not targeted for ”being men”. That’s bullshit, and not very convincing bullshit either.
Also, I may be overtly sensitive to a misogynistic mindset right now, but ”oppressing a male voice” (emphasis mine) sounds to me a bit too much like ”but… but… male voices should be given the time of day no matter how terrible the opinion, because it’s still a male voice, which, as we all know, is by default superior to a mere female voice.” Ah well. Maybe overreacting.
Feminists are not advocating for the ”an eye for an eye” approach. What in the everloving fuck are you talking about?
What you’re describing is generally called ”oppression olympics”. It may happen when discussions around the various levels of oppression in society break down to a meaningless debate over which disadvantaged group suffers more: is, for example, a white woman (misogyny) more or less oppressed than a black man (racism)? This serves no purpose other than derailing the discussion, and there’s also the problem that oppression cannot be quantified in a meaningful way. We can only look at patterns in society and see what group is disadvantaged and which one is not, not to what exact numerical degree. But, to repeat a previous point, men are not oppressed. At all. Therefore it is even more pointless for men, as a group, to take part in oppression olympics. They’d be disqualified right away.
It is important to acknowledge oppression. It’s harmful to pretend it doesn’t happen, or to pretend everyone is equally affected by it. The point is not to assign blame: the point is to acknowledge that some people benefit from social hierarchies, some do not, and to work towards eliminating the gap between the privileged and the non-privileged. Unlike in motivational stories, believing in yourself in real life does not guarantee success in a society where the odds are stacked against you.
Feminists do more work for an equal society than the MRAs ever would (since the latter don’t care about rights, only privileges). Many commenters here already engage in activism. The question is: What are you going to do about it, besides sitting smugly in front of your computer and being so proud over feeling superior to both feminists and MRAs? Because shouting ”you should bring about equality in a way that does not threaten my self-image or societal position” over the internet is not activism, no matter what the MRAs say.
Just to recap, since white, straight, able-bodied, neurotypical cis men with moderately wealthy living conditions are in no way oppressed in society, we do not have an urgent need to address the issues that they face in not conforming to their socially assigned position. We need to bring everyone else to the same social level as they occupy, and only then will it not be seen as shameful to belong to – or to show qualities associated with – another group. Capiche?
Yep, that’s what this subject needs, an arrogant man who thinks of himself as perfect for the role of impartial judge to oversee a debate on the subject “are women people?”
Why will you horrible feminists not accept this man’s kind offer?
I want to talk all about the subject, but it seems that merely expressing my womanly opinion oppresses male voices. I will sadly have to retire until these overbearing views of mine are judged tempered enough for public discourse.
This will come in handy, though, next time my husband and I are trying to decide what to have for dinner and I don’t want to pick: “But dear, I can’t possibly talk about the main course. I’ll be oppressing your voice if I advocate for lasagna.”
How exactly is the opinion that women are people and should be treated as such oppressing a male voice? Hint: Us not fawning over you for your shitty, tired, boring false equivalencies is not oppression. Seriously, explain how we are oppressing men here. Give an example.
Continue mocking misogynists and false equivalency trolls. Actually false equivalency trolls like you are misogynistic whether you realize it or not because you’re essentially telling us that the status quo is just fine and feminists should just shut up and play nice with anti-feminists now. Except the status quo still advantages men over women so clearly your desire to preserve it is a desire to preserve male privilege.
Of course it has! Men were kind enough to let us vote and own property. How dare we not be satisfied with their generosity? Now we want equal pay, rape that isn’t a stranger jumping out of the bushes with a weapon to be prosecuted, access to safe and affordable abortion and contraception and we even want to walk down the street and go online without facing down a gauntlet of harassers! How dare we? Oh, the misandry of it all!
It’s true. I feel terribly oppressed every time I speak here. That’s why I keep coming back, year after year.
We all want to oppress male voices so much that we hang out here, on a man’s blog, reading the stuff that he says. This is why every single comment from a woman here simply reads “Shut up, David”.
Dude, we already know MRAs don’t understand what “oppression” means. You don’t have to keep proving it.
I’m so glad dksharpe96 has shown up to act as mediator on the very confusing and complex debate about whether or not a woman deserves to be doxxed and receive death and rape threats for expressing an opinion.
I mean, just by expressing opinions women oppress male voices. I’m personally oppressing a good 10-15 male voices just by typing and posting this.
Every time a woman writes something on the internet a male angel is friendzoned.
Yeah, I’m kinda boggled that a lot of these assholes apparently never even consider that YOU SHOULDN’T SEND DEATH OR RAPE THREATS TO PEOPLE.
I mean, come on, Internet assholery isn’t like a tornado or tsunami or something. It’s people making a choice to harm someone. That’s not excusable. That’s shit five-year-olds get in trouble for.
LOL, no. If that were true, your ‘splainin ass wouldn’t be here.
Mock you like a hurricane.
@cassandra: that’s okay because it’s not established that angels have sexual relationships. In fact god friendzoned all angels by the way zie created them. That was when god still had his female side, in Genesis.
Thanks to hellkell now I’m going to be humming, rocking to and/or outright singing Scorpions tuneage all afternoon.
brooked: 🙂
Or you could do a Queen riff: We will, we will MOCK YOU.
This is the cockroach of threads. Virtually unkillable, gives me the creeps every time I see it.
People try to post to this thread like every other day. I don’t let through most of them because they’re all some sort of variation on “well she deserved it” or “well maybe she didn’t deserve all that harassment but let me tell you why I hate her.”
Okay but she and a bunch of feminists didn’t just protest, one of them pulled a fire alarm in the middle of the lecture because they can’t handle someone else having a different opinion, not focusing on feminism, or whatever it is that drove them to pull the fire alarm. It was a false pulling, they wasted the time of the fire department, and broke the law. Sorry but she deserves to be called out on her shitty actions. As far as death and rape threats, no that’s not and never okay. But being called a whore or someone thinks she is shitty? isn’t that what feminists spend their time doing anyways???? telling men how shitty they are? hmmm seems like a different story now that it’s against a woman.
I’m sorry, but feminism is an old ideal that is no longer needed. Because now a lot of this oppression exists on a systematic level for everyone. Someone saying something to you on the streets isn’t them silencing you. Someone calling you a name on the internet isn’t oppressing you. When you have the right and the freedom to protest against something you disagree with, shout very angrily and rudely at other people in the street and not get in trouble, and do what ever else it is she does, you don’t face the type of oppression that these feminists make you believe.
I’ve researched the whole Toronto, Canada College lecture issue. It was run by MRAs who were educating people with the problems of men, like the higher suicide rate, the higher jail rate, and it’s even higher when it’s for african males none-the-less, how there are a lot more fake rape reports each year than the feminists will allow you to believe, how there is an unfair child custody standard. there was nothing wrong with what they were doing, and the feminists went and interrupted it because someone wasn’t focusing on women’s issues for five minutes.
Thanks for demonstrating that you haven’t a clue what oppression is, Michael.
Said no feminists I’ve ever heard of.
All those topics covered at the University of Toronto lecture were based on misogyny. Hate speech should always be protested.
Shut up, Michael.
Michael, as in, our Mikey? SPINSTER-hating lawyer/farmer Mikey?
How’s life DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH, Mikey?
Easy for you to say, asshole.