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Antifeminist crusader Erin Pizzey bravely tells Redditors that “never in the history of the world have men been so unprivileged, if you think about it.”

How Erin Pizzey imagines most middle-class whtie women live, apparently
How Erin Pizzey imagines most feminists live, apparently

Longtime antifeminist crusader Erin Pizzey recently did an “Ask Me Anything” session on Reddit. Here are some highlights — by which I mean lowlights — from her answers.

Ms. Pizzey wants to ban feminism as a hate movement:

Personally, I would like to see the feminist movement described as a hate movement, so that we can then ban them from the government, from university faculties, from anywhere where they can destroy the minds of young women and men.

It’s just a teensy bit ironic, I would say, that she characterizes feminism as a hate movement at the very same time that A Voice for Men, a site she has very publicly aligned herself with, is leading a hate campaign against an individual feminist activist. (More on this to come tomorrow.) Indeed, Pizzey herself adds to the vilification of the activist here.

And speaking of A Voice for Men, she apparently agrees with AVFM’s Paul Elam that feminists are only interested in the issue of rape because they have rape fantasies and are angry that they’re not getting enough attention from men:

If you’re referring to Paul’s statement that many or most women fantasize about being taken, I’m sorry but that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean they want to be raped, but it’s a fantasy I think almost all women have. And I think he went on to say that feminists like Andrea Dworkin who were and are so obsessed with rape are really projecting their own unconscious sexual frustration because men don’t give them enough attention. Andrea was a very sad lonely woman like this–I didn’t know her but I knew of her, and I knew Susan Browmiller and you can just read her stuff to see it there.

Yeah, I’m thinking that Dworkin’s “obsession” with rape might have had less to do with her wanting “attention” from men than it did with the fact that she had been raped.

In response to a question about using Title IX to increase the number of women in science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM), Pizzey argues that most women’s brains aren’t equipped to handle all that sciencey stuff, and that most women would rather be raising children:

what will happen is that a few women will come out of that world in those areas that suit men’s brains better than women’s, and do well, but most of them won’t, and they’ll just leave and go on to other professions or to have children or family. That’s what’s been happening all the time when they’ve had quotas.

But what about the men who get excluded because of that? That’s the tragedy isn’t it, and the waste of money. Harriet Harman has proposed quotas for women in parliament, quotas for women in all the high-status fields, and women have flocked in but do not want the gruelling hours that men are willing to put into their professions because most of them–MOST of them–want to be spending time with their children at home, and that God for that.

Pizzey believes that most feminists are “mental patents” who deserve only condescension:

Personally, I don’t get into arguments with mental patients, which is what most feminist women are. Look at them with pity and compassion if you can, speak the truth as you know it.

But if you want a real reaction, pat her on the head and tell her not to worry her pretty little head about it. That’s what I do! I think men have to start using their sense of humor as a weapon. You must get past any sense of anger when you do such things though!

She believes most prominent second-wave feminists were feminists mainly because they hated their dads:

One of the early mantras of the feminist movement was to make the personal political. Therefore, those women who had bitter and violent experiences of the first male their lives (e.g. their father) then branded all men as violent and dangerous. They are also what I call the walking wounded. As far as I’m concerned the prominent feminists of the day virtually all had appalling relationships with their fathers. So if feminism grew out of a justified sense of grievance, and created a platform where they did not attempt to heal their own damage, but to project onto all men… so yes it’s very cultlike that way. But it’s any cult group that works that way, they all have either a figure they adore or a hate object that keeps them together. And their hate is against men, even when they deny it.

Yes, that’s right, she says all this and somehow does not notice the hatred of women amongst the MRAs she’s aligned herself with.

While she dismisses feminists with “daddy issues” she urges those who have been abused by their parents to forget the abuse they’ve endured, forgive their abusers and “move on.”

[T]each yourself that the past is truly the past, it is done and you cannot change it, all it is is a loop in your brain that needs to be closed down so that you can move forward. Because those patterns are deep within you, it takes a lot of hard work, but in the end you FORGIVE YOURSELF and you FORGIVE YOUR PARENTS and move on.

Meanwhile, she thinks that it makes sense for men who don’t like feminism to “head for the hills” and Go Their Own Way.

It was many years ago I was talking to a very eligible bachelor, who was a lawyer, and asked him about American feminists. He laughed and he said “what they never banked on was that men would get together and take to the hills.” This is where that expression comes from. He and his male friends would get together and have a wonderful time, they did not make permanent relationships with women, because they realized they would have too much to lose: their homes, their children, and their money. I always remember this. When 40 year old feminists complain that they can’t find any men to commit themselves, why is it men’s fault? I can’t blame men who feel this way in today’s legal environment. If the so-called women’s movement, the feminists, want men, they have to care equally about men’s desires and men’s need for protection.

This sort of makes sense, given that Pizzey seems to live in an imaginary world in which women, not men, are the truly privileged.

The actual irony of this situation is there is nothing more privileged than white middle class women, who are most of feminists. Very very privileged, because they know when they are born that either the state or a man will take care of them if they do not choose their own career. Men on the other hand are born underprivileged, particularly now, even as small boys they are demonized and discriminated against. …

 I cannot see how sane sensible educated intelligent woman can consider that men are privileged. It has always been rich and middle class women who have been protected, and they are the truly privileged.

Indeed, she’s managed to convince herself that “never in the history of the world have men been so unprivileged, if you think about it.”

Naturally, all of her comments were happily upvoted by the Reddit masses, and her “Ask Me Anything” post itself got more than 1200 upvotes. Evidently pandering to Reddit’s collective fantasies about the oppression of men pays off big in the upvote department.

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hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

The idea that feminism is 100% perfect and without fault is absurd. There is nothing in this world that is without fault. Feminism has a lot to offer this world and has brought about some positive changes but it’s not all fairy dust and happy endings. Feminism is capable of making mistakes.

The most damning thing about feminism, is that if you criticize it your are anti-woman. That’s about as logical as saying if you don’t think the earth is flat you hate god and should be burned.

No one here has ever said feminism is perfect. We’ve criticized many feminists, but we manage to do it with without being anti-woman. It can be done, you know.

If you don’t understand the site, try reading the header until it sinks in. we mock misogyny, not sure how to put that in smaller words for you.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Why should somebody be obliged to love their own agenda?

LOL

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

A valid point, @umfweto, allow me to sling mud all over it.

Observe the following:

If you disagree and criticize feminism, you are disagreeing with the notion that women are people.
So you hate… women.
Or at the very least ,you don’t consider them people.

Now, if you disagree with some tenets of feminism, for instance some specific thing like women being in war or wages or public maternity leave or some such thing, you are not against women neccesarily and you don’t hate women. YOu are just arguing a specific point.

Every good system of thought needs feedback on its assumptions, and criticicsm is an important part of that. But if you disagree with feminism wholeheartedly, out of hand, with the entire movement – and you criticize the whole as being some diabolical plot, then yeah. Yeah, you are a woman hater.

The same goes for any system. If you hate communism, you hate every single communist. If you hate mens rights, you hate the notion that men should have rights. If you hate socialism, you hate every socialist.

There is a huge difference between overt hating of an ideology used to fuel a war of words for some reason, and reasoned critique of specific tenets of that ideology.

So no, no your outside stance where you refuse to take part does not lend you credit or make you a better person, somehow raised above moral issues. It just means that when Erin writes:

“She hates her own gender. I don’t think it’s necessary to spend time on her”

you respond:

Why should somebody be obliged to love their own agenda?

Which, come on, is kind of funny.

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

Well that’s good to hear. Feminism is far from perfect but all the same, I would not like to live in a world before feminism. Much has been done to improve the lives of everyday folk in the last 100 hundred years. Although feminism has come up with some dumb stuff it has been a a force for good in many ways and deserves credit for that.

If this site is just about making fun of people then fair enough. In that case I probably looked too hard in trying to understand what it’s about. There is a lot of sarcasm on here (which is funny – I am not knocking that aspect) but sarcasm does not form the basis of any argument, so that got me thinking as to what this is all about. If it’s just sarcasm then I get that.

“Why should somebody be obliged to love their own agenda?”. I would have to ask for a further explanation on this being seen as a stupid question rather than just a LOL. If you are just being a grammar Nazi then don’t bother, you have already made your level of maturity clear. But just in case I’ll try again; why should somebody be obliged to love there own gender? I mean, going back to Erin, much of what she talks about is in reference to her many years in social work. In that time she has met a lot of dysfunctional men and woman and has seen at first hand the damage that dysfunctional people can do to themselves and others. Also, when she started out in the 1970’s (I believe) she self-identified as a feminist. Over the years she has worked with many feminists who’s aims are almost identical to her own, I mean if she didn’t say she wasn’t one, you would just assume she is a feminist herself. But Erin has spoken before of what she believes to be a darker side to feminism. I am not sure that is enough to be blatantly anti-feminist (all movements have their bad apples) but talking about her experiences with dysfunctional woman (and men of course) and describing what she believes to be darker sides of a movement surely doesn’t make her a woman (self) hater. Right or wrong, Erin has always given me the impression of someone who seeks a balanced approach. I am pretty sure Erin is someone who still very much believes in her own rights as a woman.

Like I said, I don’t agree with everything Erin says. Because there are woman who act shitty towards men doesn’t men are systematically oppressed by woman. Because some woman are control freaks doesn’t mean all woman are control freaks (biggest control freak I ever met is my own Dad – drives me nuts).

Erin has done a lot of good on this world. She has tirelessly worked to provide support for both men and woman who desperately need it. I am sure many Woman have saved from a lot of necessary suffering because of the refuges she has set up and managed. Somebody who does that for her own gender is surely not someone who loathes her won agenda.

I think it is a shame that Erin associates herself with AFVM because that place is angry and is sending out the wrong message. But I guess maybe she feels the need to speak openly about problems she believes she sees and that AVFM is so far the only place where she can discuss her concerns without being knocked back for hating her own agenda.

It seems a bit crazy that Manboobz is about mocking misogyny and then mocks a woman who has spent her life helping other abused woman.

I think yeah, go ahead and mock the ho-lee crapola out of misogyny and give it the lashing it so deserves. But I don’t think it’s fair to label Erin as a complete misogynist when her life’s work makes it clear that that is not exactly what she’s about.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

Platitudes, more platitudes, vague statements about criticism being important with no mention of specific criticisms, tone trolling, false equivalences, calls for “balance” that imply both feminist and anti-feminist positions are equal in merit, use of the word “Nazi” to describe people who are definitely not Nazis, ableist language…

Yeah, I’m bored with you.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Maybe we mock Erin, because she is a misogynist–women can be, you know–and chooses to hang out at AVfM with shitty, shitty people. DUH.

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

@Fibinachi

” “She hates her own gender. I don’t think it’s necessary to spend time on her”

you respond:

Why should somebody be obliged to love their own agenda? ”

Well it’s not that funny but I get your point.

Personally I totally love my agenda. I want a gazzilion dollars in the bank and my own Island complete with dwarf servants who run around serving me and my guests cocktails all day long. What’s not to love about an agenda like that?

I have quite a few bones to pick with feminism to be honest. Mostly because it’s something that’s hard to understand. I mean, some feminists want less half naked body conscious depictions of woman in the media, some want to make it easier to get breast implants. Some are pro this and against that. Some want less of this and more of that over there.

Aahh, I am just a simple guy, how I am ‘sposed to keep up?!

But I am certainly not against the advancement of woman and being that that is the underlying aspect of feminism, I could not call myself an anti-feminist.

There are woman who are very much for the advancement of woman call themselves feminists (and guys too, I am one of them).

I once had a flat mate who told me she was a feminist. I said to her something along the lines of “oh, that’s cool, I am not one myself”. She hated for me it. She was young and jumped to a quick conclusion, and probably thought by saying I am not a feminist I was saying I am an anti-feminist.

I am supportive of a great many things in this world that I believe to be necessary in order to achieve a greater good. Both for myself and all the other advanced apes I share the planet with. But for that I believe in, as a person I don’t come with any labels attached.

When you say, “So no, no your outside stance where you refuse to take part does not lend you credit or make you a better person, somehow raised above moral issues.”

I am not sure firstly what you mean by my outside stance. Outside of what? That does read as you have drawn a line in the sand and are urging me to pick a side.

Why must there be a side to pick unless you thought there was a need to believe in something as absurd as permanence?

I believe in the rights of all humans, there is no side to be taken. If there are people who specialize in fighting for the rights of a particular group of humans, then I am on their side as much as I am on the side of people who fight for rights for all humans (main group, sub-groups, green ones, blue ones, purple ones – even smelly ones).

And isn’t morality is relative. What is moral to one is not necessarily moral to another. Is rape a moral issue? Well to me definitely, to those who those that it isn’t, well those sick people have moral issues that I am definitely above.

In a collective group of people who belong to a movement you are no doubt going to find a common purpose based on a sense of common morality. Christians believe in being good to each other, Christians do a lot of good things in this world through their shared sense of morality. Personally I have a lot of the same moral beliefs as Christians, I believe that there is space in this world for Christians and I support the good things they do. But I am not a Christian because there aspect of that movement that are paradoxical to the broader aspect of my morals.

There are things I find paradoxical in feminism. I feel at the same time feminism seeks to improve woman’s lives, it puts a lot of pressure on woman. I have never understood why so many feminists call for the complete obliteration of the family. I don;t agree with the aspect of feminism that claim the difference between men and woman are purely a result of social conditioning. I agree that woman used to be unfairly expected to stay at home but then I would argue that men where unfairly expected to go out and work.

But I think, in it’s modern form, there is much about what I said above that feminists would agree with.

Anyway. Sorry for the long rant.

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

@Viscaria sounds like you need a vacation

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

Well, I found it funny, but humor is individual. Good luck buying an island – ambition is laudable.
Maybe do like the guy who built his out of old soda bottles stuffed into bags to keep a layer of sand afloat? That’s a real thing, promise.

Anyway, viz a viz the line in the sand – If you believe that people have rights, and that working towards those rights so that everyone, regardless of their gender, sex, status, race or any other outside definition of group adherence labelled by others… then, well, you might not want to call yourself a feminist, and that’s okay, but you do share the basic background of the notion as well as the entire idea of people as… people, not things.

The trick is that the line in the sand isn’t “Feminist” and “Anti-Feminist” or “Feminist” and “MRA” – the line in the sand is “People have rights” and “People don’t”.

You can’t stand apart from that and compromise and assume that everyone is a little right or a little wrong, it’s an either-or proposition. You can argue the specific rights and the things and ideas behind it – which is what you’re doing here – but you can’t look at anyone and say “Let’s compromise you’ll agree that this subsection of humanity is lesser, and I’ll agree that sometimes genocide is a bad thing”.

Example:

I believe in the rights of all humans, there is no side to be taken. If there are people who specialize in fighting for the rights of a particular group of humans, then I am on their side as much as I am on the side of people who fight for rights for all humans (main group, sub-groups, green ones, blue ones, purple ones – even smelly ones).

Cool. Good on you. That’s not some sarcastic quip, genuinely good on you, that’s a fine standpoint to have. Now here’s what Erin Pizzey says, quoted in the original blog post:

Personally, I don’t get into arguments with mental patients, which is what most feminist women are. Look at them with pity and compassion if you can, speak the truth as you know it.

But if you want a real reaction, pat her on the head and tell her not to worry her pretty little head about it. That’s what I do! I think men have to start using their sense of humor as a weapon. You must get past any sense of anger when you do such things though!

or:

One of the early mantras of the feminist movement was to make the personal political. Therefore, those women who had bitter and violent experiences of the first male their lives (e.g. their father) then branded all men as violent and dangerous. They are also what I call the walking wounded. As far as I’m concerned the prominent feminists of the day virtually all had appalling relationships with their fathers. So if feminism grew out of a justified sense of grievance, and created a platform where they did not attempt to heal their own damage, but to project onto all men… so yes it’s very cultlike that way. But it’s any cult group that works that way, they all have either a figure they adore or a hate object that keeps them together. And their hate is against men, even when they deny it.

Ie:
She’s not saying: “I think rights of everyone, everywhere are important and worth fighting for”
she is saying: “Feminists are all mental patients, pat them on the head and call them little dears because when they get upset, it’s funny!”

She’s not saying: “Feminism is hard to understand and I sometimes get a little confused with all the jargon” – which, yeah, can be confusing – she’s saying:
“Feminists, every single one, are really just mad at their dads and also a cult. It’s a movement with no merit, because it’s based on psychological projection of the “walking wounded”, who really just hate their fathers and they aren’t working to help anyone, they are working to crush men because they hate them”.

So… what we’re debating here, and the reason Erin is being mocked, DESPITE HER GOOD WORK IN SHELTERS AND COMMENDABLE, LAUDABLE EFFORTS TO LESSEN PEOPLE’S PAIN, is that she’s also saying anyone who is a feminist is a mental patient and that the movement has no merit because it’s a cult of haters.

So not: Feminism is paradoxical depending on which tenets of the thing you ascribe to

But: Feminism is a symptom of mental illness and hatred

Not: People’s rights are important, yet sometimes I wonder how to argue and talk about it, and how to understand it all

But: Men suffer and are sad, and its women and feminists fault, and they should suck it up and forgive their abusers and stop hating so much, the little dears.

So… Nope. Things are not equal, and you cannot say that you stand aside in the notion of people either having rights and being people… Or not having rights and being things.

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

After that wall of text from Umfweto, we could all do with a vacation.

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

@Fibinachi Thanks for your response. I owe you reply in my view but it’s getting towards the end of the day and I am soon going to be able to bust out of the office for the weekend.

I have noted what you have to say about Erin and her comments. I will add to your comments when I am back in front of a screen.

“Men suffer and are sad, and its women and feminists fault, and they should suck it up and forgive their abusers and stop hating so much, the little dears”. Yes, decrying feminism for creating a victim culture and then proceeding to describe yourself as the actual victims….. I spent an evening (before being kicked off) the AVFM forums once hearing so much hypocritical along those lines.

Y’know, I don;t believe in attaching myself to any labels because I believe much can be achieved by belief in one’s self.

Aah, being kicked out the office…

I will be back 🙂

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

@Umfweto, are you financing my next trip because I’m so unimpressed with your mealy-mouthed refusal to own your shit? Because that would be awesome.

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 years ago

By the way, these ideas:

I mean, some feminists want less half naked body conscious depictions of woman in the media, some want to make it easier to get breast implants.

are not contradictory.

falyne42
falyne42
7 years ago

Part of the issue here, I think, is that you don’t have a problem with feminists. You have a problem with STRAW feminists.

I’ve never, ever, heard a feminist call for “the obliteration of the family”.

I’ve heard a LOT of feminists call for the obliteration of the societal demand that a proper “family” takes only one specific form, with every member fitting in one specific role, on the grounds that this doesn’t actually work for an awful lot of people and that people should be free to find the family structure that *does* work for them.

Those are very much not the same thing. AND YET, a lot of people (not just you) hear the latter and decide that we mean the former. I’d like to invite you to think about why that is.

(For me, I have a goodly number of friends following the marry-suburbs-kids-white-picket-fence route. And since it’s working for them, it’s all good. I also have a goodly number of friends going the poly/BDSM lifestyle/alt/etc. route, and again, so long as everyone’s a consenting, honest, communicative, enthusiastic adult, it’s all good. It may the ones that blend the two paths that *really* blow people’s brains, tho.)

The only pressure feminism has given me is, well, adult responsibility. I’m “pressured” to think through why I do what I do, what has influenced me, and how it influences other people. I’m “pressured” to seek out my own path in life rather than follow a script. Giving up and going with the Betty Draper flow might have been easier, in some ways, and yet I take up this pressure very willingingly.

Bagelsan
7 years ago

@Umfweto, are you financing my next trip because I’m so unimpressed with your mealy-mouthed refusal to own your shit? Because that would be awesome.

Maybe you get a nickle for every word he types?

falyne42
falyne42
7 years ago

And yeah, those are very much not contradictory.

You (a meaningfully-consenting adult) should be free to body mod yourself however the hell you want (with service providers being subject to health-based regulatory guidelines, of course).

An industry that purposely manipulates the public perception of “normal” beauty for the sake of selling crap is to be shamed decried.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

What the fuck is up with the dudely dude invasion and their walls of text? So much bloviating. Dude, the straw feminists in your head are actin up, and I really don’t give a fuck what you think.

If you can’t understand feminism–the simple concept that women are people deserving fo rights–than you are too stupid to live and should probably fuck off forever.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

We really need to figure out a mechanism to stop people from drunk posting. Make them type captcha while walking in a straight line, maybe.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

(Well, people who’re prone to dumping giant walls of poorly composed text when they’re drunk, anyway. If you’re an entertaining drunk then drunk comment away!)

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

Good lord. These trolls really need a crash course in condensing their writing.

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

@hellkell what’s wrong with a dudely invasion? “Straw Feminists” please expand on that? That seems like an indication that you think there some poser feminists out there. If you don’t mind I would like to her what you have to say about that.

@Viscaria please explain why it’s not contradictory to be against the objectification of woman and support breast implants at the same time. It’s seems like a massive contradiction to me. My Mom once said to me that she would get plastic surgery if she could afford it but I could never understand why. And she was right about one thing because I was all like, “but yr rad Mom, why do feel that there is something about you that needs improvement?”. Ya, you would do me a big favour if you could help me understand what that’s all about. I mean it though. I would never want to implant something foreign in my body so it’s hard for me to understand why some people do or want to.

@falyne42 again “Straw Feminists”? Again, I am honestly asking for some enlightenment on what you all mean by this. It seems to me that there is a general feeling that there are people who aren’t quite the genuine article or something. I absolutely agree with you that the idea that “the family” could only ever take on a one size fits all rigid form in order to be valuable for all people involved is insanity.

Also, what you said “The only pressure feminism has given me is, well, adult responsibility. I’m “pressured” to think through why I do what I do, what has influenced me, and how it influences other people. I’m “pressured” to seek out my own path in life rather than follow a script. Giving up and going with the Betty Draper flow might have been easier, in some ways, and yet I take up this pressure very willingingly.”

Thanks for sharing that. I am glad other people feel that way about life. I spend so much time pondering similar things about my own life. My catholic upbringing, my rejection of it, my rejection of a text book white picket fence life. There is something deep down inside of me that keeps fighting that and reminding me that there is so much more to my existence.

Oh and everyone, what does owning your own shit mean when you say it to someone? I have heard that same thing being said over at AVFM. What I am really asking is what that means to you? You don’t know me so you couldn’t possibly understand the shit it is I am going to spend the rest of my life trying to own. I have asked you what that means to you so I will offer my understanding to you. My shit is who I am, it’s the thing I need to own but it’s also the thing I am trying to protect from people who make mistakes in their attempts at owning their shit.

Also, to the people who are complaining about the fact that I am a guy who has shown up and started typing loads of stuff. Stop being hostile. Chances are I am going to stick around while so long as there are other people here sharing valid points. Nobody should be made to feel bad about their natural need for answers and conversation.

And for most of today I was at my desk pretending to work, not drunk. Although Friday night is finally here and I am now typing with a glass of red at my side.

Fade
7 years ago

@Viscaria please explain why it’s not contradictory to be against the objectification of woman and support breast implants at the same time.

YOU. decide to get breast implants. OTHER PEOPLE. decide to objectify you.

This is not hard. It is a matter of personal choice.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Your request that we stop making fun of you is denied.

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

Straw feminists are the magical feminists you invented based on bad assumptions. Hmm…if only there wasn’t a nifty place for people to have such questions answered.

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

@Fade I would never decide to get breast implants.

I am tired of people objectifying me. I don’t discount the things I have in life now but the day when I am old bald and left alone do sound good to me 🙂

falyne42
falyne42
7 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

A Straw Feminist is a Straw Man built to purportedly represent feminism. Again, no feminist actually says that the family should be destroyed. A lot of people SAY that feminists say that.

What we’re hearing you argue against is not actually feminism. It’s Straw Feminism. You’ve really got a bit of learning to do before you can meaningfully approach this topic, and, frankly, it’s not this blog’s job, or it’s commentor’s job, to walk you through it.

(PROTIP: attempting to shame or guilt people into *making* it their job to educate you is a good way to provoke *justified* hostility.)

There’s a blog that HAS made it their job. It’s over here. http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/purpose/

This site is mockery. Not hand-holding. If you’re looking for not-mockery, you’re in the wrong place.

Fade
7 years ago

Um, yes it makes sense to not want to be objectified.

However, getting breast implants does not make other people objectify you. That is those other people, and their actions.

You can get breast implants/reductions for whatever reason, and you would still not be deserved to be objectified.

Are we on the same thought here? I can’t tell….

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

@Briznecko I get what you mean. I am not going to follow that link because I think I really understand what you mean. There’s many a lad at over at the AVFM forums with a feminist bogey man hiding under his bed.

@CassandraSays No such request has been made. As you were…

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I KNOW THAT NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN THE CONVERSATION THAT I’M DEMANDING THAT YOU HAVE WITH ME, BUT STILL, HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH ME, BECAUSE I WANT TO HAVE IT, SEE HOW I CAN WASTE HOURS OF YOUR TIME THIS WAY?

So bored.

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

No, I wouldn’t touch reddit with a ten foot pole; this site is as close as I want to get. That is a friendly 101 blog that will happily hold your hand through all your questions.

falyne42
falyne42
7 years ago

The distinction between sexual and sexualized does kinda require the recognition of active female sexual agency, which is, sadly, a Feminism 102 topic, so… *shrug*.

Also, there’s a big difference between supporting a right to body modification and supporting the act of body modification. A given procedure may actually be anti-subversive/caused by pressure that is harmful/reinforcing harmful norms. I still support a person’s right to decide that, for their body, and in the surrounding social context, that this is the right thing to do.

Even as I decry the aspects of that social context that provide the some of the logical basis for that procedure.

falyne42
falyne42
7 years ago

I AM DRINKING MEAD. MEAD IS DELICIOUS. 101 BLOGS ARE HANDY.

THE SUBJECT IS NOW MEAD UNTIL 101 BLOGS ARE READ.

I just started two new fermentation buckets this morning. Plain and cyser (which is made with apple juice). :3

(I am internetting instead of mopping honey off the floor.) 😉

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Never had mead. Is the honey flavor very obvious?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

@hellkell what’s wrong with a dudely invasion? “Straw Feminists” please expand on that? That seems like an indication that you think there some poser feminists out there. If you don’t mind I would like to her what you have to say about that.

Straw feminists–not real, just what you think feminists are from your insightful and comprehensive readings of manosphere drivel. Look up “straw man,” you doofus.

What’s wrong with a dudely invasion? Oh… just about everything, when they put up walls of word salad.

Dude, we’re gonna mock the shit out of you.

falyne42
falyne42
7 years ago

Yup! Plain mead is just honey and water, so the primary flavoring is the honey. The sugars get eaten by yeast, producing booze, and depending on the starting ratio of honey to water and the alcohol tolerance of the yeast you can wind up really sweet or really dry. ^_^

falyne42
falyne42
7 years ago

Starting from that, though, you can go in a whooooole bunch of awesome directions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead#Varieties

(The subject can actually change away from mead. I’m not actually going to demand that we talk about what I want to talk about. I will continue to say that 101 is that-a-way, as in not-here, however.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I move that we change the topic to “anything food and beverage related”, since it’s Friday. Weekend brunch plans? That involve mimosas? Fair game.

Umfweto
Umfweto
7 years ago

@falyne42 actually I think I am totally in the right place if I may say.

Since you guys are here to have fun poking fun (which is cool) and not apologise for it, I am going to do the same thing now…

So here goes…

The part where I reveal myself to be some sneaky tricky creep who’s trying to trick you in to something you don’t want to say…. it’s not going to happen douch bags!

No, I have quite enjoyed the things I have heard here today. I have read about feminism extensively but I do believe it’s how people take it up and put it to use that counts.

Also, you may be a cocky bunch over here but I sense no anger.

It’s one thing to have things you believe in but it’s another to maintain a healthy perspective on the things you believe in. So far things seem healthy here to me.

I do appreciate that you guys have had many a troll who arrives here to justify there own existence. So I am not offended by any judgements you have so far made about me.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Fuck off.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Where do I sign up to get a glass of mead?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Cassandra: After we fight our way through the grocery store tonight after work because we’re almost out of cat food (and we don’t want to piss our feline overlords off), our weekend is refreshingly plan-free. We might go to our favorite restaurant tomorrow, I’m craving their fish and chips.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

That’s a good point. Where do you find mead if you don’t make it yourself? I can tell you where to get a lot of random beverages, but that’s not one of them.

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

Tonight I’m going to a free prom-themed concert! So excited! But, to relate it to the topic of food, I have to grab stuff to make breakfast sandwiches for people who are going to crash with the BF and I afterwords. I’m thinking either beagels or english muffins (toasted, natch) with eggs, lots of cheese, and cream cheese. I need to dress those up somehow…but nothing that’ll be too labor-intensive, after all I’ll be cooking them while quite hungover.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Other food-related plans: I’m going to sneak a few slices of pepperoni pizza to my friend in the hospital.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
7 years ago

The most damning thing about feminism, is that if you criticize it your are anti-woman. That’s about as logical as saying if you don’t think the earth is flat you hate god and should be burned.

Plenty of people criticize feminism without being called woman haters. Feminists themselves are always examining it and criticizing it. There is a lot of good criticism out there about feminism failing at intersectionality, or addressing the needs of people of color, LGBT people, people with disabilities, and other marginalized groups. That is important criticism, and it is something to work on.

But if your criticism about feminism is that it doesn’t center men’s feelings and wants first, then you are actually being anti woman. Women are already socialized to put men first and put their own needs last. It is wrong to then demand they use their own movement to do this same thing.

I have come to this Man Boobz site a few times and I really don’t understand it. It doesn’t seem to be about anything more than mud slinging.

It can be a little rough, but a lot of us like it fine just the way it is.

The idea that feminism is 100% perfect and without fault is absurd. There is nothing in this world that is without fault. Feminism has a lot to offer this world and has brought about some positive changes but it’s not all fairy dust and happy endings. Feminism is capable of making mistakes.

I don’t know anyone who has claimed that feminism is without faults. That’s why feminists have so many arguments and discussions amongst ourselves, because it deals with complex subjects that don’t always have easy answers. It’s not like a basic math problem, with only one correct answer.

If this site is just about making fun of people then fair enough. In that case I probably looked too hard in trying to understand what it’s about. There is a lot of sarcasm on here (which is funny – I am not knocking that aspect) but sarcasm does not form the basis of any argument, so that got me thinking as to what this is all about. If it’s just sarcasm then I get that.

That’s kind of the point of a website devoted to mocking misogyny. If you don’t like that kind of sarcasm, then perhaps you could create another website with a different style to it. I’m serious when I say this, too.

I have quite a few bones to pick with feminism to be honest. Mostly because it’s something that’s hard to understand. I mean, some feminists want less half naked body conscious depictions of woman in the media, some want to make it easier to get breast implants. Some are pro this and against that. Some want less of this and more of that over there. Aahh, I am just a simple guy, how I am ‘sposed to keep up?!

There is a feminism 101 site that gives the basics to beginners. I agree it’s overwhelming to come across too much academic jargon and that there is a lot of info to take in, but that’s what beginner websites are for. Now if you ask a sincere question, and you’re not just goofing off, somebody would probably answer it for you.

There are things I find paradoxical in feminism. I feel at the same time feminism seeks to improve woman’s lives, it puts a lot of pressure on woman. I have never understood why so many feminists call for the complete obliteration of the family

I’m a feminist, yet I’m a stay at home mom with a nuclear family. I have occasionally found some feminists that make fun of stay at home motherhood, calling it “choose my choice feminism”, but most feminists are supportive of it as long as it’s a choice women make on their own and not due to societal pressures. The goal is that ALL types of families will be recognized as valid, as long as the members are happy and treat each other well.

“Men suffer and are sad, and its women and feminists fault, and they should suck it up and forgive their abusers and stop hating so much, the little dears”. Yes, decrying feminism for creating a victim culture and then proceeding to describe yourself as the actual victims….. I spent an evening (before being kicked off) the AVFM forums once hearing so much hypocritical along those lines.

Good for you for getting away from that toxic website.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

We’re thinking sushi and bentos at some point. Sunday night is turning into jambalaya and a movie night.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Spec’s (giant liquor warehouse here) does have mead.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I’m thinking either beagels

No! Don’t eat beagles, they’re too cute! 😀

Briznecko
Briznecko
7 years ago

Bagels, not beagels.

Fade
7 years ago

@CassandraSays

Mmm… Sushi. I love good sushi.

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