Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Y’know it’s funny, but all that unmanly stuff … sewing, knitting, gardening, cooking, playing with or caring for [insert name of preferred cute animal here], ditto children or anyone who needs care, are the hottest things. Of course they are good in themselves, and doing them doesn’t actually relate to or depend on anyone’s opinion of them; that’s not what I’m saying. But HOT DAMN is it sexy. I adore seeing Mr K doing any of that stuff, and if I felt attracted to other guys that’d be exactly what would catch my eye.
Would the MRAs ever, ever grasp that idea? Not in an infinity of infinities. Because aside from their cretinous ideas about gender roles, and their terror of their pwecious pwecious masulinity being undermined, those activities are about love, affection, concern for others, or simple pleasures.
And I don’t think these guys know jack shit about any of that.
I didn’t know he’d done that.
::applauds::
::whistles::
::cheers::
@CassandraSays, Those pictures. … I’m fanning myself. 😀
cloudiah, I have a feather ready to burn if you swoon away entirely. 🙂
There are few things that catch my eye quicker than a hot guy cuddling a cat. It increases their hotness exponentially. Ditto babies, dogs, and so on. If the dude can cook too then he’s pretty much in.
Actually in terms of cooking and other basic self and household maintenance stuff not being able to do those things reads as not a competent adult to me. I’ve never understood why so many guys are proud of their inability to take care of themselves.
Undoubtedly.
Hedgehog guy!
We just like hedgehog guy because he’s so thuglike. [swoons again]
Also, I got tired of my b&w avatar so now I am canned kitties with watermelons.
Fair warning I have not read all the comments since the first page. I just got off work and I am going out again soon: so no time.
Depression sucks. One of my clients is suffering with it and I’m trying to supportive (since I know my client isn’t getting it at home). I hope you find the support you need.
I agree this person clearly did not read what was posted. Confirmation bias
All the doxxing I’ve been reading about has freaked me out from commenting a lot of places. I just couldn’t deal with that.
Off topic since you all seems to have a wide range of experience. I have to fix the scrapes on my car. I’m thinking about getting a kit, but I can’t tell which ones are the best or what I really need. I need to fix it soonish because I need another layer of wax on my car asap. No big if nobody has any advice on this particular issue. Oh, good news my insurance will pay out and I don’t have to pay anything out of pocket for the other vehicle.
Hedgehog guy. *swoon*
@cloudiah what a random picture.
Haha, I had to look at it larger because I didn’t understand what you were talking about.
lol
There’s a lot of swooning going on in this thread. Kittehs’, you better send a bunch of feathers. (Are they the WHITE FEATHERS used by all feminists to lure men to their DOOM?)
See, the problem here is that MRAs, PUAs, and other assorted sexist weirdos refuse to accept the fact that there’s a strong connection between “likes person” and “is attracted to person”. They think that since liking someone doesn’t always mean that a woman will have sex with him, liking a man must be completely irrelevant to how attracted to him women will be. It’s just a really childish way of looking at things.
In my experience, and I’m mostly going by complementarian guys, it’s all about filling the stereotypical “masculine” role more closely. There are many self-serving implications:
-That they’re very very masculine, so masculine they don’t even know how womany stuff like appliances even work!
-That women should do all that stuff for them because they can’t do it themselves.
-That there TOTALLY ARE gender differences; see, I’m living proof!
-That it isn’t sexist, because men are good at some things, but women are good at other things.
-But men still get all the good stuff.
-Etc, etc.
I work with visual resources, so it is very easy for me to stumble across random pictures and decide to use them for my gravatar. One of my favorites was the guy who was SO proud of his very large lemon. (No, that is not a euphemism, get your minds out of the gutter.)
Hedgehog guy! I was thinking of him when I wrote that! 🙂
cloudiah, all those kitties PEERING FROM WATERMELONS … it is the kitty apocalpyse in tins.
Like, I’m a cuddly, affectionate person who likes cats, interesting food, and loud music. It’s theoretically possible that I might be attracted to a man who likes none of those things, but it’s unlikely, and if I was I’d be very unhappy with him.
p.s. No kitties were harmed in the making of those tins. It’s ART. Off to make dinner. Maybe I’ll steal hellkell’s idea and make scrambled eggs.
“There’s a lot of swooning going on in this thread. Kittehs’, you better send a bunch of feathers. (Are they the WHITE FEATHERS used by all feminists to lure men to their DOOM?)”
::dismembers old pillow::
Feathers! Feathers for all!
… hmm, yes, they are white.
And yes, I do remember the lemon guy. ::sniffs haughtily::
Well, in case anyone’s curious, I did wade into that linked article (BEFORE everyone warned of all the virus stuff… :P). It was just as bad as described.
… his wording here is making me think she didn’t make it all up…
Yay on insurance paying for the car!
Warning of tl:dr about us coming! 😉
In the days when all I knew about Mr K was from his earthly days, there were so many things I liked about him, but a shitload of stuff – issues, attitudes of the times, and so on – that meant I knew our chances of being happy together would have been minimal. But with all the shit gone, and the good stuff with a whole lot of time to mature, we fit together much better.
/tl:dr
I don’t mean “interesting” as a snark on other people’s food preferences, btw. What I mean is that for any sort of a foodie, life with someone who just doesn’t care what they eat is unlikely to work very well. I once dated a guy whose attitude to food was “whatever, as long as it’s easy” and it was so weird.
@Fade
I didn’t even last that far into the article.
Especially since there were pandas over here…
@Cassandra
Preferences can make a difference though.
I feel uncomfortable with a man who doesn’t get the importance of chocolate…