Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Cutenessssssssssss!
Defintely puts him in alpha category (or pandagory in this case). Say, don’t MRAs think Asian men by default can’t be alphas, because of whatever-their-racist-schtick is? HA to that. I mean HA anyway, but this is the Panda Wipeout.
TomBcat – my boss is used to me making weird laughing noises. Come to that he makes a fair few himself.
yoursexy didn’t even try to aim, did he?
Baby swift! <3
Hahahaha, unsexyloser demonstrates his inadequacy – this time it's reading comprehension fail.
Not that that's new for him, or unusual among trolls.
Yoursexymaster is trying and failing at domly domness.
Hey, notmysexymaster, can you read for comprehension? Like, at all?
Speaking of that, I ran across some hilarious MRA dude who was shocked and outraged by some site aimed at women in Singapore’s 10 Hottest Men list, particularly the fact that the # 1 was this guy.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zYVQ3ss9-vI/TcYj35j4HEI/AAAAAAAAhjE/NB7RTrgCmqg/s1600/ambition10.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_42Sbh1yhvRY/TTSscM5qGGI/AAAAAAAAH6k/D77KFsTVi2s/s1600/Screen%2Bshot%2B2011-01-17%2Bat%2B20.53.32.png
A site based in Singapore picked an Asian guy as their #1? I am so shocked. They’d be even more outraged if they’d seen this one.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_42Sbh1yhvRY/TTSscM5qGGI/AAAAAAAAH6k/D77KFsTVi2s/s1600/Screen%2Bshot%2B2011-01-17%2Bat%2B20.53.32.png
Oooh, do you think he’s one of those domly doms who
humps people’s legsthinks he’s a sheepdog?I don’t think he’s domly at all, but I think he knows that.
Kitty pic fail.
http://themortalinstrumentssource.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/tumblr_m7gzv3urvc1r3oy4vo1_500.jpg
It’s kind of awesome how dom fail dude’s name has 3 distinct elements, and every single one of them is wrong.
Actually I like this pic better, kitty is chilling out in a proper catlike manner.
http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/godfrey-gao-1.jpg
“I’m not sure if they can track who visits, but almost all sites can track who comments, so I hope people are being careful about that.”
…yes. At least on the version of WP I was running I tracked IPs (stalker ex avoidance) — impossible to match the IP to a nym without more info, but yeah, IPs are generally logged. A site like AVfM or manboobz probably never looks at that in detail though, too much noise to see much besides “lots of people in the US, EU, etc”
If you comment though use ToR or a proxy — IPs could be anyone — a lurker, soon-to-be commenter, troll, anything. Comment and piss them off? Hide your IP, I don’t care what they say “fuck their shit up” is a threat.
Emmy — yuck, that sucks. Can I offer a fish viewing? They make a good distraction.
I’d say be careful even clicking on links if your location is a. known and b. unusual in some way. Those two things together might be enough for someone with malicious intent to track you down.
That guy is beautiful indeed. What’s his name?
The MRM would loathe Takeshi Kaneshiro. I had a friend who posted pics of him in his younger days with all her poems – he’s another remarkably beautiful man. 🙂
The second guy is Godfrey Gao. Just to add more fuel to the fire, he’s ridiculously tall too!
I’ve been a huge fan of Kaneshiro ever since Chunking Express. It’s really a shame that he’s mostly known for House of Flying Daggers here – he’s a great actor and that wasn’t a particularly good performance.
NB if anyone’s wondering about me saying “beautiful” rather than “handsome,” it’s because handsome doesn’t really cut it for me; a beautiful man – and yes, that does imply something feminine in his looks, regardless of his race – is waaaaay further up the scale for me. I don’t think of Mr K as handsome; I do think he is beautiful.
Yeah, my friend used to tell me abou Kaneshiro’s films. I can’t recall if she runs his fan club or just belongs to it.
I definitely prefer a certain amount of androgyny, facially at least. I can look at the kind of men usually described as handsome rather than beautiful and see why other women are attracted to them, but they don’t really do anything for me.
Also when using Tor/proxies I’d recommend testing if they work first. Disposable Email if one is requested of course.
Just a general FYI(I assume not everyone knows this): when posting without any safety measures and they keep track of the IP one can see what OS and browser you have and the general area you live in depending on your provider. I suppose most people wouldn’t have much use for that information, but it’s still a little creepy.
(can be useful though, Facebook hacks and stuff)
This is what I was getting at earlier – if someone has that info it’s really easy for them to send a nice, perfectly targeted virus your way.
Or worse, they know you and recognize you *shudder*
All the more reason to deny them the traffic.
Yes, a lot of the men described as handsome don’t do it for me – especially very square-jawed guys. I do not care for faces that look like they were drawn with a ruler and T-square!
Or just act like they do and try to scare you. I think that is something MRAs are really into…
XD Just because panda’s are so cute! <3
@yourannoyingmaster
mocking men who are domestic violence victims good job Davey
Now now, I know trolls tend to have little reading comprehension, but if you read the post you’ll notice the guy wasn’t actually a victim, and was just calling the line to ‘prove’ he couldn’t get in a women’s shelter, even when the tried to direct him to men’s shelters, or a hotel room.
Whoa! Teh Unmanly Unmanliness will make the world explode!
http://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/takeshi-kaneshiro.jpg
Kaneshiro is also one of only a very few actors who’ve had the backbone to call Hollywood out on its racism in public. He gets a lot of respect from me for that, especially since he did it in such a polite way that there’s really no way to challenge his statement without going “yep, we sure are racist”.