Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
This makes me sad. I tried listening to it, but the moment I heard his voice, I couldn’t listen anymore. I’m so frustrated with everyone about male victims. I’m so frustrated being used as fodder against women.
This is depressing, because I don’t know how to stop people like the MRAs.
I’m just waiting for them to doxx her and put her up on Register Her.com.
I did finally listen to it on YouTube (do NOT read the comments), and whoever pointed out that her voice changed the instant he raised the idea of being admitted to the women’s shelter is so right. She has clearly heard this before from abusers trying anything they can think of to find their victims. Scary.
Personally, if the plan is to blockade UofT again so MRAs can’t meet there, then blockade the shit out of it. “Free speech” does not entitle you to a podium provided to you by UofT student’s tuition fees, jackasses.
and now my skin crawls.
Criticizing her also not only misses the point of the post here, but also the one “Reno” was trying to make.I mean whether or not she’s good at her job has absolutely nothing to do with institutionalized discrimination. (and also shouldn’t be misused as proof for it’s existence)
@Fade – “I am not David, but I would rather have hands for feet! Twice as much grabbing power!”
B-bu-but what about SHOES?
David, what do you think about the delivery times from the US to Australia?
Back to the original post – I’d like to know if this scum could be charged for recording that phone call. He sure as hell wouldn’t have had the permission of the counsellor to do so.
I like gloves better, anyway. XD
And I would customize my foot-gloves, and they would have hard leather on the bottom that is bendeable enough to move, but still protect me from the ground.
/I have overthought this.
Kittehs’, IANAAL (I Am Not An Australian Lawyer) but certainly he couldn’t be charged without doxxing him after the fact, which I’m not in favor of. And I doubt it would be a significant charge anyway — I thought the legal penalty for unauthorized recordings was generally that you couldn’t use them in a legal case, not that there was some punishment involved for doing it.
@Falconer: “@kitteh’s: David may think it’s okay, but a lime-green dress, red feather boa, and bright orange Crocs? I’d pick two out of three, sweetie :P”
That wasn’t me! I never wear Crocs! 😀
Roscoe P. Coltrane doesn’t like the food, and the portions are so small.
Got home and finally got around to listening to the tape. It is absolutely bizarre. The counselor is being incredibly helpful despite the super sketch story.
Is there some reason they use all those photos of badly maimed men? I was not expecting that. The whole thing is just exploiting the experiences of abuse victims so the caller can make some weird backasswards jab at feminism. Maybe? The more I think about it the less sense it makes. I think I’m gonna go make tea and read something coherent for a while.
@ignotussomnium
Didn’t know they used pics on it :/ I suppose I should have guessed that, it’s just all super squidgy. 🙁
Hello Manboobers! I’ve been depressed (more so than usual) so I haven’t been keeping up.
@ Pinwheel: that article you posted looks like a pretty good case study of what DV looks like from the other side. For example, the writer doesn’t say that the rape and abuse wasn’t true but instead ranted about how rape and abuse shouldn’t be valid reasons for a woman to escape with her children. He also weaves between feeling sorry for himself for being betrayed by someone he really loved and saying that he didn’t love her in the first place and was intentionally emotionally distant during their marriage. Then he appeals to Biblical authority to absolve himself of being a terrible husband and father and put the blame on his wife for bringing home the bacon AND cooking it.
Also, from the tone and the frequent use of “unhaaapy” (I get the extra As but where did the other P go?), is this the guy who had that advice for christian men blog that blamed women for everything?
cloudiah – going by David’s post, the slime’s name is known anyway, so it wouldn’t be doxxing him. I’d love to see the police kick his lousy arse … metaphorically of course *cough*. But it looks like the laws on listening devices vary from state to state, so it’d depend where he made the call from. Some states say you can if you’re a party to the conversation, and others require the consent of all parties. Pity, it looks like the fishshit probably skated inside the law.
Are we still asking questions of David because I totally want to know if I should share the muffins I am attempting to make without sugar tonight or not.
Just nit-picking, but Martin Luther had 95 these, not 99. It bugged me.
The effect of adding the photos isn’t really what they were going for. When viewed from outside their weird little bubble it just reads as “look, there are abused men who need help, and instead of actually helping them MRAs are pulling weird publicity stunts while ignoring or refusing actual help”. Doesn’t make them look good at all.
Anyone ever get the sneaking paranoia that going to MRA sites will give your cmputers viruses? Because i am super curious about about the article somoene linked to (with the whiny christian guy) but I do not want me computer to become infected with manosphere.
Want to hear something really weird? There’s a site that I was perusing and posting links here from the other day, and I’ve been reading that site for ages with no problems. Within a day of posting links here my antivirus decided that the site in question was hosting malware and blocked it. Could be a coincidence, but…
@emmy
Jedi hugs if you want. It always sucks when depression is being worse.
@princessbonbon
Of course you should share the muffins! Muffins are yummy!
@cassandrasays
I feel really dull, because I so don’t follow… /computer ignorant. If you want me to understand you’d probably have to spell it out* XD
*note, you don’t actually have to do this, if you don’t want to.
Since there seem to be a lot of younger MRAs who’re IT guys I wonder if they’re deliberately seeding malware anywhere that they think feminists might encounter it. So yeah, I’d suggest avoiding their sites, and definitely avoid commenting there unless you have a reliable way to mask your IP address.
Fade, I viewed a bunch of MRA videos on youtube linked from here and was subsequently getting lots of recommendations for more and I felt like my computer was infected. I was all, “Quick, delete the cooties, I mean, cookies! Ahhh, that’s better.”
Emmy, sorry you’ve been depressed! Hugs if you want ’em. And thanks for pinpointing what was creepy with that post. Does anyone see ever see posts that long and find themselves unable to read them because you know it’s bullshit, just because of the length? The truth rarely requires that many words, in my opinion.
The possibility of malware or viruses generally is one reason I won’t go to any MRM sites. I don’t know if they can track who visits (I’ve no idea about that sort of thing) but it’s another reason to stay away. Plus, I don’t want to give those bastards hits, and most importantly, I’ve better things to do than read their hateful shit; like I said to Quackers yesterday, it’s much better to read it here in what amounts to a safe space, where there are so many better things going on, like shoes and kitties and the David Q&A sessions.
(He seems to have gone inactive, but I’d particularly suggest that people not post on GGGs blog unless they’re sure they can hide their IP and use a fake email address, because that guy is sketchy as hell.)