Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
I do that all the damn time XD
On soap with triclosan, I am totally guilty of using that (my OCD focuses on germs and the idea of dirt/contamination). Which means that I can report what’s probably a good trend regardless of how much it distressed me at first – they seem to be phasing it out. A lot of the liquid soap that used to have it no longer does, for example.
The thing that pissed me off about triclosan soaps is they don’t work better; in fact it’s not clear that they did any good at all. Detergent soaps work on a principle that bacteria can’t evolve out of; they break the cell wall. If the cell wall gets strong enough to survive, it can’t be used to encapsulate food.
So all it did was make those few germs which were lucky enough to not get enough soap on them stronger.
It was brilliant marketting, but massively dishonest.
It doesn’t help that people don’t have the clearest concept of bacteria vs. viruses. If you have a cold virus, taking antibiotics won’t help! Nor will washing with antibiotic soap prevent colds and flus!
@Hershele Ostropoler
If you don’t mind me asking, why? I mean, the deconverted thing kinda rubs me the wrong way, like why? I think I get the publicly atheist, since then it’d mean people wouldn’t have to feel like they have to hide if they’re atheist but idk. I’m rambling.
Because more people would vote for an LGBT candidate than an atheist one. And while it would be nice if 0% of people would write off a political candidate for being LGBT, it would also be nice if 0% of people would write off a candidate for being an atheist (and I don’t consider these two things in conflict with each other, obviously).
Also, I am an atheist, and I think the statement “god exists” is factually incorrect. I want the people who believe the Earth is flat or pandas are a type of bear or all Coccinellidae are female to stop believing those things too.
pecunium: I’ve seen that now — a friend of a friend blogs for the Forward — but my data set in 1997 didn’t include that.
^^ More people would vote for an LGBT candidate than an atheist one? Really?
@Hershele Ostropoler
What. The. Everloving. Fuck.? Someone else’s religion = not your business none of your fucking business. God, there are so many things wrong with your sentence. The Earth being flat, panda’s being bears are all things that can be disproved. People can’t prove or disprove if a god/gods exist. And I’m going to laugh my ass off if you say ‘because science’ because science is fucking changing all the time. This may be a little too angry, but anytime some gets all ‘ignorant sky people’ I’m going to be as pissed as fuck.
And seconding Fade on the ‘citation needed’ for more people would vote for a LGBT candidate than an atheist one. Also, you’ll note us LGBT folks are just trying to get a right to exist and do what everyone else does, not force atheism on everyone, like you (not all atheists).
Ugh, I mean, I do know that atheists have it bad in some areas, but wtf on that whole post.
Thank you, Marie. We actually discussed the would-people-vote-for-atheists thing before and he’s actually right about that, as it happens (I don’t have the study on hand but I’m sure he does). But an atheist seriously concerned about the electability of atheist politicians might try not to contribute to the perception of atheists as being saturated in smug intellectual superiority.
Here ya go.
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheistSurveys.htm
Keep in mind it is Gallup. Their question framing sometimes verges on push polling.
Citation — http://www.gallup.com/poll/26611/some-americans-reluctant-vote-mormon-72yearold-presidential-candidates.aspx
Also, holy shit do I hate those antibiotic soaps, no just no. And um…at least in the US, a positive TB skin test doesn’t (always) result in the testing required for “is it resistant to the drugs we’re about to give”.
Okay, this line from the poll is rubbing me the wrong way. It feels like Oppression Olympics, and like when lots of the atheists diminish everyone else’s problems because it’s the only one they face (I normally notice this from white straight cis men)
I mean, I don’t know if the stats are good. I just think they should’ve hired someone else to write the article…
Ninja’ed sorry
Fade and Marie, in case you’d like to have a look, the previous thread where we talked about this is here. (Not trying to shut you up or say we can’t talk about it again, of course, but lots of people brought up interesting points.)
@lots of people
Thanks for the citations 🙂
@katz
I think I was lurking during that thread (it looks familiar) but thanks for link. I’ll go check it out.
I missed it because I was at a convention.
@Marie and katz – hear, hear!
Hershele, what Marie said. Getting the science wrong on the physical world is one thing, but the “you shouldn’t believe in God/whatever deity” stuff is crap and none of anyone else’s business. You don’t get to tell me what to believe, what my experiences are and how to interpret them, any more than I get to do that to you in reverse.
Buggrit, new name = moderation. Since I’m impatient:
@Marie and katz – hear, hear!
Hershele, what Marie said. Getting the science wrong on the physical world is one thing, but the “you shouldn’t believe in God/whatever deity” stuff is crap and none of anyone else’s business. You don’t get to tell me what to believe, what my experiences are and how to interpret them, any more than I get to do that to you in reverse.
I’m of the opinion on belief in deity that I am about things like racism… what you think is one thing. What you do is another. Santorum is a shit. Kerry isn’t. They are both religious.
Oh, I forgot to include that I chose those two examples because they are both Roman Catholic (usually the comparison I make is Scalia/Kerry).
Looking at that thread katz linked to reminds me, has anyone heard from Some Gal Not Bored At All? I don’t think she’s posted here since around Easter. I hope she’s okay.
@kittehs
I haven’t seen her in a while either 🙁 I didn’t know if something was up, or just her not being on recently, since I mostly saw her when I just started delurking.
Well, I know I’m newish/random here, but I am an atheist who works as a church musician, right now at ELCA Lutheran and Catholic Churches. I consider it pay to play. I know you’ve been talking about it before, but just to let you know I’m out there messing with statistics. (i.e., how often do you attend church services/do you believe in God?)
“but just to let you know I’m out there messing with statistics. (i.e., how often do you attend church services/do you believe in God?)”
Muahahahahaha, teh ebil statistics-messer*, out to destroy the minds of statisticians everywhere!
*a subsidiary of Basement Cat, Inc.