Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Yes, it does. Someone upthread mentioned that men will call women’s services trying to do that, or get female friends or relatives to call on their behalf. I would think the volunteer on the phone would be very much aware of that sort of thing, and it would be a big part of why this creep’s call waved all those glowing red flags.
Religion has played a pivotal role in the assignment of gender roles and stereotypes; both historically and contemporaneously. Just sayin’.
Upon reading some of the earlier comments to the video (thankfully the more recent ones with more upvotes are the sensible ones calling out on the bullshit), I noticed quite a few of them were angry at the operator for dedicating about 30 seconds of the 8-minute conversation to the fictional 6-year-old boy. “She cares about the kid but ignores the man’s pleas! BITCHCUNT!!” Yeah forget little children, what about MEEEE?!?!
^ Thanks, Kitteh. I just got here, so I can’t search through 1,000 comments for that @_@
I cannot believe the selfishness of some people. Tying up a help line with petty bs when people who actually need help might be on hold is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard of. What could possibly make somebody so self centered? Such entitlement! It’s infuriating!
Yeah, it would be a lot of searching, BritterSweet – I don’t even remember which page it was on. 🙂
It’s not surprising, when you think of it. The time a victim of abuse leaves is the most dangerous time of all, the time they’re most likely to be murdered. That totally fits with the abuser trying to track them down if they’ve gone to a shelter. Thank goodness the shelters’ locations are kept secret now, so that horrible scene you mentioned of the men demanding their property back isn’t so likely anymore.
@falconer
That sounds very…strange.
Is it offensive? (totally butting in… ::blushes::) Because I know my dad’s fiance doesn’t believe in evolution (got mentioned when I mentioned it was my favorite thing I had to learn in science) and the conclusion there seemed to be ‘to each their own’. /sorry for butting in.
Wow…. 🙁
These evolution deniers make me want to laugh and cry at the same time. It’s the very definition of willful ignorance.
Hellkell, if there are no superdogs then evolution must be a lie!
;D
Offensive? Not in the sense that they’re, like, dissing you personally. But ignorance doesn’t look good on anyone. It can, in fact, be harmful, both to the disbeliever and to others (eg, drug-resistant bacteria), and it also demonstrates an astounding amount of Dunning-Kruger ignorance to think that you read Of Pandas and People and now know more than the entire scientific community.
katz: (Except the Quakers. The Quakers were awesome, and generally still are.
Having spent a decade with a partner (and her family) who are Quakers, and in/around Meetings. The Quakers in early Penn were as eager to enforce orthodoxy as everyone else. The only place which was actually tolerant of non-orthodoxy was Rhode Island.
The Quakers got better sooner than pretty much everyone else, but they weren’t always as ecumenical as they are now.
One of the main reasons the Puritans left Amsterdam was fear of assimilation. Their children were becoming more Dutch than English, and that really bothered them.
Cassandra: Actually I’d love to do a little poll of what people’s religious backgrounds are.
Background? Reared Catholic. Spent time in a couple of Parish Schools. By HS I was less than happy with the practice of the church (Curia vs. Laity issues, largely; which are still manifest; and that’s a really complicated thing, made worse in the US by the overarching Protestant; particularly fundie, environment in the US).
In actual practice these days… vaguely Quaker with strong RC underpinnings; when I need the Ritual of the Mass I tend to look for a High Church Anglican Parish: and add in the things which their rite has changed.
I am not orthodox, but the core framework of my religious belief/practice is built on Vatican II, as colored by parish priests (in a Latin American immigrant community) and study of social justice (Oscar Romero, etc.) and lots of study of the parent texts, and theology (in part because there was a time I was trying to decide/discover if I had a calling to become a Jesuit… the study of theology told me I couldn’t accept a couple of the requirements; having to do with some arcana; which is well known, largely misunderstood and not really relevant to my background; save that it stopped me from further considering the pursuit of Holy Orders).
@katz
*shrugs* Idk I guess I just don’t see the problem, provided they aren’t hurting anyone. Don’t think I’ve heard much about the drug-resistant bacteria, though, cuz that as an example is not ringing any bells for me on the subject… /uniformed.
Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, who died a full 30 years before Darwin published On the Origin of Species, proposed that inheritance worked in such a way that if you cut off a mouse’s tail, its offspring would have shorter tails.
Gross physical changes like that were shown generally not to be inherited. I hear there is some evidence for Lamarckian inheritance under other circumstances, such as behaviors, but I haven’t made a study of it.
So I was teasing them with something as blatantly wrong about evolution as they were talking about, but I think it backfired on me. 🙁
They are trying to get creationism taught in public schools, largely by bashing evolution. “Teach the controversy!” was their rallying cry a few years ago, despite the fact that there is little controversy in the scientific community about evolution.
They’re just scared that if there weren’t a literal seven-day creation and a literal Adam and Eve, then Jesus didn’t walk on water and they’re not going to be saved. They don’t seem to have made the leap to rejecting Hell, however.
But their efforts would seem to have the effect of dumbing down our children, and establishing a religion in contravention of the First Amendment, because public school teachers are government employees.
And it was just wrong and stupid. I’m all for having an argument or discussion, but the straw man fallacy is not a valid win, IMHO.
Oh, and drug-resistant bacteria include Methycillin* Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus (MRSA), which almost killed me eighteen years ago and again fourteen years ago, so believe me, it’s out there.
*Too lazy to look up the spelling.
After the second blockquote, I’m not talking specifically about my friends anymore, but creationists in general. Sorry.
Thanks for explaining 🙂 I just don’t think I know much about this topic, so wasn’t thinking all through.
You’re welcome :D!
Totally OT, but it’s methicillin, so you got it damned close! Also, that sucks, stay away from MRSA now, you hear? *best adult voice* (I kid, but seriously, that does suck)
I would, but it’s probably encysted somewhere in my body.
Waiting.
Although it’s been forever, maybe there isn’t any.
>I assume the thinking in NC is that the 14th Amendment doesn’t count because Thaddeus Stevens was Lyssistrata’d into it by his black mistress (not my conspiracy)
>Bagelsan @ 4/4 19:36
Though, slightly off-topic and this being April, people who can’t function to the degree they want to are certainly entitled to seek treatment (and the phrase isn’t “nothing about us without us, except the ones who don’t have the Right View”)
>I was a three-day-a-year Jew until I was 11 or 12 and my parents decided to get me used to Saturday services in advance of turning 13 (my formal religious education was way more focused on display and ritual than on dogma). I don’t recall ever believing in god as anything more than a vague abstraction; I internally declared myself an atheist when I realized that “Jews believe in God” wasn’t meant to be tautological. What drew me to atheism and, to a lesser extent, Atheism was finding a place on the new-to-me internet to complain about Christianormativity and Christian hegemony in the U.S. (e.g., DOMA and censorship) and I was nominally Jewish but the Jews didn’t seem to be vocally opposing it — the ones who didn’t support DOMA and stuff like that (which only got worse a few years later when a Jewish conservative ran for VP) seemed reluctant to mix their Judaism and their engagement, if any, with the larger world.
I’m not a capital-A Atheist in the sense that I feel the need to actively attempt to bring people into the fold. I’d certainly like it if more people deconverted, if a majority of people either were or know someone who was publicly atheist. I’m really only bothered when someone tries to make laws or cultural norms based in religion or in the assumption of religion.
>:pecunium @ 4/6 12:47
I suspected as much; when someone mentioned how a Quaker theocracy would be cool I thought “well, not necessarily, it’s hard to get an idea of what they’ll be like with power when they’ve never really had any for long; people in the cultural minority are always going to be more diffident and harmless that the same people running things.”
So there’s antibacterial everything now, right? Soaps and cleaners and what not. These don’t work any better than the non-antibacterial versions. But when a soap with, say, triclosan in it kills 99.99% of the germs on a surface, the 0.01% left are the germs that are immune to triclosan. Then those germs multiply quickly because there’s no competition, and voila, eventually everything is immune to triclosan.
One of the most serious cases of drug resistance is extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis, not terribly common in the US but extremely dangerous.
(I should mention that actually the biggest cause of drug resistance is the huge amounts of antibiotics we give to livestock so that we can crowd them together in unsanitary conditions without them all dying. Another cause is people who are prescribed antibiotics failing to take the whole course and instead stopping early when they start feeling better, so that instead of killing off all the bacteria, they kill off all except the very strongest bacteria.)
…amazing how you managed to post this right after a bunch of commentary on how much of a role it’s had doing just that, and some specific examples. It’s almost like you don’t actually read what the regulars say for comprehension, just skim it for a place to jump in with your talking points.
Hmmm.
@katz: …and don’t forget the overuse of antibiotics, coupled with nobody ever finishing the full thirty days of the course… Those have definitely helped drive the resistant strains.
Huh, there was a second half to your comment in parentheses that I didn’t read before posting. And you said everything I felt the need to remind you about!
I feel a lot like Purple Star now for some reason.
Plus, y’know, embarrassed.
Whoopsie!!!!
Hershele: the ones who didn’t support DOMA and stuff like that (which only got worse a few years later when a Jewish conservative ran for VP) seemed reluctant to mix their Judaism and their engagement, if any, with the larger world.
Mileage varies. I spend a lot of time with modern Orthodox Jews,and they are pretty active, and more than a little involved in social justice politics. I know lots of reform (and Quaker) Jews too, but they don’t stand out as, “Jewish”.
I suspect the real problem is (as with the Fundie Christians) the far right are a lot more vocal about being Jewish, and in arguing that being Jewish requires that sort of bigotry.