Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Personally I want to know what David thinks about this book my manager just gave me to read. Also, what does David think about my outfit today? Why can’t we ever talk about what is important to meeeeeeeee?
Harumph, David answers the troll’s questions, but not our much more reasonable ones. 😉
David, can you tell if I need to shower today? I really think I should, but am also kinda lazy. My hair is in a ponytail, if that makes any difference.
Ponytail? Eh, you’re fine then. Ponytails fix everything. 😀
@bagelsan
Sweet! This is good to know XD
Viscaria. What book did you get to read? Is it like… boring and work related?*
*unless you don’t think it’s boring. 😛
/loves talking about books.
Had I refreshed, maybe I would have noticed that like 8 people beat me to that joke. Oops!
David, what do you think about flavored pastas like this? I got some chipotle and habanero pastas for Christmas, but I’m not sure if I like them or not.
David, why do I always forget to refresh the page before I comment?
@Fade: Selling to VITO, the Very Important Top Offer. Subtitle: Get to the top. Get to the point. Get to the sale.
Riveting.
The best way to show that the mrm has real issues and isn’t just a bunch of whiny rage filled trolls, is by prank calling a help line and wasting the time of someone who is trying to help people and making it harder for people looking for help to get through. What a fucking asshole.
I volunteer at a helpline for children rather than dv and I have overheard another counselor trying to deal with an adult caller spouting off mra talking points about male victims of abuse not getting help and complaining that he had phoned twice and spoken to a woman both times.
Ouch. I’m getting bored just reading the title. XD
Oh, come on David. Everyone knows you’re the head of the Feminist Hivemind, Toronto Division. Why else would you have written about the protests there in your blog?
John-H, that’s horrible.
Ok, I’ll answer some of the other questions. Cloudiah, your hair looks fine; I would rather have hands for feet and, indeed, I have been trying for some time to evolve thumbs on my current feet; everyone should take showers today, unless they can groom themselves like a cat.
Viscaria, your question about your outfit is a bit more complicated, but here’s my general rule: Look in the mirror, and if your outfit looks less bizarre than whatever Helena Bonham Carter wore to the last red carpet event she went to, you’re probably fine. If anyone looks at you askance anyway, just sternly say the words “Helena Bonham Carter” to them and they will back off. (Just don’t say her name three times in front of a mirror; you don’t want to know what happens then.)
David, there’s an old pair of sneakers that I’m trying to replace. Can you tell me which retailers might still have them? Thanks, David, this “ask anything you want, get an answer immediately” blog of yours sure is swell.
Holy shit. Not only did he call a volunteer hotline there to help people being hurt and waste their time, he did it TWICE and then yelled at them for doing their jobs. Christ. What assholes.
You would win that bet.
David: What should I make for dinner? Grilled cheese or eggs and bacon?
There are so many mirrors in our new house, I’m afraid to say anybody’s name lest we unleash whatever dark spirit is trapped there.
@kitteh’s: David may think it’s okay, but a lime-green dress, red feather boa, and bright orange Crocs? I’d pick two out of three, sweetie 😛
As long as David is answering questions, maybe he can tell me: Why does the porridge bird lay his egg in the air?
Helena Bonham Carter is awesome and i aspire to that level of fashion don’t give a fuck.
I listened to the call and these are my impressions:
1. Authenticity of the caller
– Right off the bat he says he has been denied access to victim services because he’s a man. So it does raise a red flag from the start which the operator would no doubt be thinking about.
– He knew the acronym “DV,” and then even explained its meaning to the operator. Another red flag.
– I don’t agree with some commenters here, nor the OP, that it necessarily indicates bad faith that he requested admittance to a shelter. He did state that he was seeking services immediately, on the assumption that shelters could provide immediate assistance.
2. Helpfulness of the operator
– The operator did tell him clearly that she works for a counseling and referral service, not a refuge provider. This established that she could only help him by connecting or referring him to other service providers. She wasn’t even capable of denying him a service which her organization didn’t offer to anyone, let alone to a single sex.
– I don’t think it was her place to judge him for his son being awake. That part bugged me. It seemed like she was laying the groundwork to paint him as an unfit father, and thereby undermine his claim to be fleeing his abuser out of concern for his son’s safety. Her claim of “concern” rang hollow to me. What if he really was an actual victim? Would this act of judging put him at ease? What if he was afraid that his wife could come home at any minute? Should he obsess about wasting time putting the kid to sleep, and that in a dangerous home, or rather should he focus on getting them both to a safe place ASAP? Female victims have fled with their kids to shelters in the dead of night. Were they confronted during their plea for help with such displays of “concern” about their ineptness as mothers? I hope not.
– It bothered me to hear the operator’s remark that a refuge is no place for a child. In my research I have checked out Web sites of many American shelter providers and they go out of their way to emphasize that it’s a safe place for mothers and their kids. They show pictures of playground equipment at the site of the refuge, and point out that they have supplies such as diapers and baby formula. Maybe it’s not that way in Australia, but I don’t know why it wouldn’t be.
3. What the call achieved
– She cited a statistic claiming that 95% of victims are female. Maybe that figure describes 95% of the callers who seek such services. But plenty of data exists which put the percentage of male DV victims much higher than 5%. For her to cite this to a man who ostensibly needed immediate help seems counterproductive to me because it might tend to discourage him from finding help, even by calling the Men’s Line or calling police.
– I think it would have been far more illustrative if he had taken her up on her offer to connect him to the Men’s Line, while recording that call too. If discrimination exists, it’s not implausible that it could be systematic and experienced by victims who are referred and transferred multiple times only to either give up in frustration or be denied after slogging through it. Recording the entire process, or at least more of it, would have achieved more than this call did.
– About the legitimacy of fake calls, in the U.S. it is sometimes used to confirm or disconfirm whether unlawful discrimination exists. This has been done to investigate racial discrimination for example. Fake calls can serve a legitimate purpose.
Overall, in my opinion this call shows the ineffectiveness of MRAs insofar as evidence-gathering is concerned, as well as in ineffectiveness by MRAs at rejecting unhelpful attempts at evidence-gathering.
Still, that alone does not negate the fact that male victims of domestic violence are underserved. It’s just that these particular “advocates” aren’t really helping.
What confuses me is the disconnect between what’s on the tape and what’s reported. Is it that nobody bothered to listen to it over there, or is their ability to understand what’s going on around them just that warped?
@hellkell
I’m not David, but I think you should have eggs and bacon. I love breakfast for dinner, and we all share my tastes, right? We are a hivemind, after all XD
Sounds like we have a companion holiday to “Make Shit Up About David Futrelle Day” “Demand Obscure Answers From David Futrelle Day.”
If I say I don’t like eggs at any time of day is the hivemind obligated to arrange my execution?