Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Yay for the new wig! Long hair will suit you so well.
…but then how do you say hello to your friends when you see them? Complaints about the weather are the only proper way to say hello!!
Howard: In Upstate NY, we’d just grunt hello by the time March rolled around. I don’t miss those winters one bit.
I got next to no fashion sense, so I hope you find something you like that is comfortable, and your Nosy Nellie relatives learn to leave you alone, Aaliyah!
Down heah in the Sou-uth we’re just as loquacious as you ever could please. If two acquaintances bump inta each other at the cornuh stow-ore they’re lahkely to spend a half an hour catchin up.
Heah in the mountains of Tennessee a little snow is a common and dangerous thing, but down in the Big Peach it’s the talk of the decade if they get as much as an inch.
Cloudiah: I’ve read that ‘feminist marriage’ thing elsewhere. And yeah, the full text is even more painful. For those who didn’t quite catch it, the guy’s thesis is that same-sex marriage is ‘feminist marriage’–because it will allow women to live completely free of male influence.
It helps to understand the fundie mindset for this one. Remember, there’s only one ‘real’ source of evil in the world–Satan. So, anything that you’ve decided is ‘evil’ must, perforce, be another of Satan’s forms. So homosexuals, fundamentalist Muslims, moderate Muslims, secularists, yoga instructors, reiki practitioners, capital-A Atheists, feminists and evolutionists are secretly on the same team.
So to him, feminists and homosexual marriage rights activists are of course colluding, so now he has to figure out why they have intrinsically common cause, outside of both being movements based on the decency of humanity. And so he came up with this cockamamie spiel about ‘feminist marriage’.
One of the funniest things I’ve ever seen here in ATX occurred in the HEB (grocery store) parking lot. One dude was about to get in his car, when a friend of his pulled up and asked, “Whatch doin’?” The dude about to leave was all, “SHOPPIN’!” Like, you don’t say. These two proceeded to have a convo and hold up everyone trying to park for what seemed like an eternity.
@freemage, I saw “cockamamie spiel” and my uncaffeinated brain read it as “cockatiel” which then led me to this gif.
“Howard: In Upstate NY, we’d just grunt hello by the time March rolled around. I don’t miss those winters one bit.”
Yeah guess where I am? Nearest place worth mentioning? Catskills. It’s 38 degrees here (and I’m surrounded by conservative relatives)
Someone come kidnap me please?
…Even if it’s two dudes?
katz, he has a whole ‘nother thesis on two dude marriage. I can’t even…
katz: Another common unspoken fundie tenet is that homosexuality is only about gay men. Seriously–it’s part of the ‘women have no sex drive unless they’re being evil daughters of Eve and tempting good men astray’ thing. If you listen to them go on about gay male sex, you come to some… interesting conclusions. I’m just gonna note that they talk about how ‘addictive’ gay sex is, and how it’s ‘solely for pleasure’ and ‘the most intense physical pleasure a man can have’ and YES those are all direct quotes. I’d have some sympathy for them if they hadn’t turned all that self-hatred outward, frankly.
So lesbian marriage, for him, is clearly all about garnishing resources while retaining freedom from men, and gay marriage is about two men isolating themselves in a cocoon of pleasure-sin.
They’re aware of the popular perception that homophobic fundamentalists are all closeted gay, aren’t they?
Immediately buys three boxes of baggies.
As inspired by Falconer posting the Mission Impossible theme, we’ll be sending a highly-trained squirrel your way immediately.
Although think twice: My state lege just had a flap in which an elected official mistook a mop sink (low to the ground) for a Muslim halal foot-washing shariah Kenyan Usurper Devil Baby secret Al Qaeda plot to allow Muslims to wash their feet before coming in the legislative chamber.
He apologized after it was explained to him that it was there for janitors to fill their mop buckets at, but still. :/
And North Carolina wants to establish a state religion.
Thank God I live in California.
Squirrels to the rescue! W00t!
No need for the bags though, the fishies are safely back in CT (while I’m stuck listening to how stupid and evil CT’s new gun laws are)
Oh, sorry, I didn’t realize you were on Family Vacation.
Attack of the Family Vacation. Revenge of the Family Vacation. Family Vacation from the Black Lagoon. Family Vacation of DOOM.
Heads up long post ahead of me rambling cuz I’m in a weird mood and also really caffienated so feel free to skip.
@freemage
Huh. I’d’ve assumed same sex marriage between women would be a lesbian marriage, not just some shtick to get away from men, but maybe I’m weird that way.
I am totally okay with being on the same team as most of those people, but assuming capital a atheist is code for pretentious internet atheist I’d rather not, and if evloutionists are those pretentions evo psycho goes, no.
Also, in mildly disappointing news, I just figured out my dad sounds like one of those pretentious internet atheists but w/o the atheism. Seriously he opened up his post on his old ok cupid profile that he was showing me and it started talking about how rational he was I just about facepalmed.
@katz
Which is totally bwuh. I mean, doesn’t America have this obsession with where you enter school they tell you how America is so great and people came here to get away from religious prosecution, but it’s kind of a spin on what actually happened, if I remember correctly and also spoiler space didn’t work.
Anyway, I have America issues. (and yes I am American)
Anyway hello beautiful manboobzerz.
Well,yeah, they tell you the Puritans came to America (twarn’t the States then) to escape religious
prosecutionpersecution, but they DON’T tell you that the Puritans wanted to be the ones doing the persecuting.It actually makes Rhode Island and Pennsylvania, which were founded on actual ideals of religious freedom, probably the birthplace of that idealism within the States.
Don’t mind me, I’m suddenly crashing. Bleh.
@falconer
So that’s who it was. (the puritans) I’d forgotten. Yay to Rhode Island and Pennsylvania then. Wonder what the justification is being used for to try to do w/e about ‘state religon’ in North Carolina. Idk rambles. Just annoyed.
Marie:
Capital-A Atheists are fairly active on the internet, but are not necessarily the ‘pretentious’ ones. Instead, their the ones that actually do activism for the cause of a secular society–that is, filing lawsuits and staging protests against unconstitutional infringement by government (like stuff in the article katz linked to). Now, this is not to say, no matter how much I might wish it to be so, that capital-A Atheists cannot be pretentious gits who need serious interventions to teach them social skills, but rather merely that that’s not the defining trait–being ‘out’ and talking about their atheism is. If you want to see the ones who aren’t so annoying, check out Freethought Blogs (Greta Christina’s Blog, Almost Diamonds, Butterflies & Wheels, Digital Cuttlefish and The Crommunist Manifesto are all awesome and friendly places; Pharyngula takes more of a Manboobz-like approach towards religion, but also towards anti-social justice positions in general, so it’s generally enjoyable), Skepchick and The Friendly Atheist.
And yes, a lot of the colonists were fleeing persecution, and were looking to set up places where they could be the persecutors, instead. (Except the Quakers. The Quakers were awesome, and generally still are. As an Atheist, I’d be totally happy living in a Quaker theocracy; the only real religious laws would be that we’d have to treat people decently, think before we speak and everyone would call everyone else ‘friend’. I could live with that.)
@freemage
Thanks for explaining. I just didn’t know if it was code for the ones that were pretentious, or something else. Idk sorry if I’m not making any sense today, super rambly.