Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Kinda makes me wanna throw up. These resources have better uses than prank calls. I’m not sure where he is, but I know that our local call line often has a waiting time to get through (it serves a variety of needs beyond just dv).
One of my guy friends in high school came out to his parents and got kicked out (his dad also threw stuff at him). He ended up in a shelter for a few days until his aunt came to get him.
If this guy was really concerned about men getting proper shelter from abusive women, he wouldn’t be insisting that he gets into a women’s shelter. If he’d given two seconds of thought to it, he’d realize that hey, the abusive woman could easily get access to the shelter so it’d really not be safe for an abused man to stay there. But of course, he’s doesn’t actually want to help men who are abused by women. He’s just mad that there’s an institution that dares to not make it all about the menz.
@pillowinhell What the hell did I just read. Im not sure I’m understanding the hamster metaphor. It is a metaphor right?
And I love how he doesn’t think rape and abuse are valid reasons for divorce.
@melody
O_O wow. I am not regretting deciding to skip that article.
What were valid reasons, in his mind? (if he had any)
He lists this as a reason he and his friend’s marriages were doomed to fail…
So ladies, don’t go asking for a divorce if your husband beats or rapes you. That’s fine. But god forbid you be intelligent or have a career. Think of your husband.
I’m going to go throw up now.
The guy has a biblical marriage now. By those rules, the only way you leave the marriage is in a pine box.
And his post is a hairsbreath from admitting that he was what his first wife accused him of being.
As for the asshat in the post… I’ve had to make that emergency call at one point in my life and there was no space for locally so I would have had to move to an entirely new city with nothing more than the clothes on my back and losing my very good job.
I stayed and fought.
I’ve set up Firefox so that AVfM automatically redirects to A Voice for Pierre. I think I will set up the Spreadhead to automatically redirect to something even more pleasant. Any suggestions?
Melody, this is what arationalization hamster is. (And I really need to learn to spell hamster someday. It’s not a thing you put your dirty clothes in, clairedammit.)
Also, I need to learn to close my tags.
Cloudiah, is zooborns too obvious?
@augochlorella
This is true of MRAs in general. They don’t really want shelter options for abused men, because they don’t think the appropriate response to an abusive woman is to seek shelter elsewhere. They think men should respond to violence from women with more and worse violence. Presumably any man who actually fled a violent woman would be considered a “pussy” and all moral support would be revoked.
“If he’d given two seconds of thought to it, he’d realize that hey, the abusive woman could easily get access to the shelter so it’d really not be safe for an abused man to stay there.”
Seriously! This is the most bizarre thing about the MRM to me. It’s not about helping guys at all. It would at least make a bit of sense if they were honestly trying to get help for guys being abused, or male rape survivors, etc. But it’s really just about hurting women.
So in Wapiti’s world (scary place), men never get “unhaaapy” and leave? Really? Pull the other one, dude.
MRAs: making things worse for everyone.
I haven’t read the article (everyone made is sound despicable), but if he’s like any other MRA, my guess is either
A) of course they don’t! Females can get a man any time she wants, but MEN have to be content with whatever female they have and would do anything not to be single and fuckmachine, I mean female, -less.*
or
B) Well, if a man is unhappy it’s because the woman is not performing her womanly duties correctly, so therefore it’s her fault if he leaves.
*Forgive my ridiculous use of female, i was trying to imitate an MRA.
Wow…that Spearhead article…I want to give a little love to the part where he specifically says that his first wife got resentful because she was pursuing her career and they had “less than egalitarian” childcare duties. In other words, because he expected her to do the bulk of the chores in addition to her career. And then he complained about the sex dropping off. No, really? That’s what happens when your wife is exhausted from working all day and then doing the majority of the childcare/housework at night.
I have a friend who’s a chemist and her husband made her quit her job because he thinks chemicals are too dangerous.
Dude. You knew she was a chemist when you married her.
I’m not going to burn brain cells listening to this piece of fish shit, but this bit in Dave’s summary caught me:
“Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed.”
I would bet my boots counsellors – this one, or anyone on a shelter’s phone line – has heard male abusers ask for this in an effort to catch, beat and maybe murder the women sheltering from them.
@Katz.
Yuck at your friends husband. Hope she is doing okay living with that… jerkwad.
This reminds me of how much my mom gave up in her career, even though my dad never tried to force her to stop working. She moved with him when he moved, which cost her some good opportunities in research (she’s a scientist, though biochemist, not a chemist), and she had a big gap in her resume from being a stay at home mom for a couple years.
Zooborns is a very good redirect for Spreadhead.
Here’s a bit of brain bleach.
@ Kitteh –
Yes, her voice completely changed at that request (I thought). I mean, the guy sounded sinister as all holy hell anyway, and WOULDN’T answer her when she suggested the men’s line… Then that request just made her hairs stand on end. That’s how it came across to me, anyway.
@ AK
Right?? You make your career-driven intelligent wife come home from her demanding job, and do all (or most of) the housework and childcare, I’m pretty sure she’s too tired to suck your dick at the end of it all. And its not exactly aphrodisiac behaviour either. “Oooh yeah baby – you make yourself comfy on that sofa – as soon as I’ve washed all the dishes from the meal i cooked you, and changed all the nappies, and vacuumed, and put the kids to bed, I’m gonna want to jump your bones and rock your world. Cos you look HAWT slouched on that sofa with that beer”
@katz, it amazes me how many people think like that. I’ve gotten a lot of questions from people about whether Mr. AK is going to “make” me give up my dangerous job, or expressions of surprise that he “lets” me keep doing it. I’m like, seriously? I was doing it before I met him; there’s no “let” involved. Of course Mr. AK is awesome and would never ask me to quit, but simply the fact that so many people apparently think he has the right to stop me from doing something I love and was doing before I even knew him is absolutely unbelievable to me. I figure that if a guy has a problem with my career, he probably should have dumped me back when we first started getting serious and had all those “I don’t plan to quit my job, like, ever” conversations.
Kitteh’s Unpaid Help: And the shelters are VERY aware of that danger. I work for a company that gets a lot of clothing samples. We tried to arrange a donation to a women’s shelter, but it was actually made too difficult for the company to manage because we only had men available to take donations out, and they couldn’t let us come except during certain narrow windows of time with lots of pre-warning, and we didn’t have that flexibility.
In MRA-land, I’m sure this would be viewed as a major example of misandry; to me, it was just proof-positive of just how fucked up Domestic Violence can make life.
(Ultimately, we included the clothing as part of an internal auction; all the money raised went to a bunch of charities, so it was still going to a good cause, but not as directly.)
Exactly. As long as MRAs cannot emphasize with people who are vulnerable, they’re allies to no one – least of all abused men.
This too. If MRAs actually wanted to help men, they’d be fighting for men’s shelters that helped protect men in homosexual relationships from abusive partners – because that’s actually a real issue that’s often overlooked. But you’ll never hear a peep about that from MRAs because it doesn’t involve screwing over women.
I hit ‘submit’ too soon on my last comment…I also meant to include that Mr. AK has a potentially very dangerous job himself (seriously, it involves explosives), but no one ever asks him if I let him do it, or if I’m going to make him stop when (if) we have kids. Bit unfair, if you ask me.
What really gets to me is that he probably thinks he did a service to others with this shit. ’cause people gotta know the truth…*shudder*