Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Partnetr’s job is partner’s job. I like to play with explosives. I was in the Army (these can go well together). My partner was a Quaker.
She never asked me to quit. Not once. She rides horses. I never asked her to quit. Same for bicycles in LA traffic. That was (and remains) her choice. She is an adult, she knows the risks. If she’d been hurt (more than has happened) I will be sad, but if she didn’t do the things she loves, she would be sad.
My sad is less important than her sad; in this context (same for me and the Army).
Hugs, WeeBoy, if you want them. Glad to hear your friend is doing a bit better. And good luck at the osteo, Kittehs’.
As for other stuff out there on the internetz, just let me lay a big old TRIGGER WARNING for blase dismissal of rape on this thing. Seriously, don’t read it if you don’t want to see the rape dismissed as no big thing. I am probably oversimplifying, but it’s because I’m horrified.
@Weeboy
Doesn’t sound weird to me.
If one person named a fish after me I’d be happy!
Bunnies are also great. I don’t know about the landlords where you are, over here we don’t have to ask for permission if it isn’t explicitly noted in the lease(goes for anything that can live in a cage).
Er, “the rape” should just be “rape” but you can probably figure that out.
I’m going to sleep now, for what little time I have left.
As always, compliments on your cyberspace garden (I’m going with garden, it’s about time spring is coming), beautiful flowers in here, with very few odd fruits occasionally falling in from the neighbors trees. Looking forward to my next visit! Good night!(day/evening, it’s early morning here according to the bird at my window)
@ Cloudiah
I unwisely followed hte link (what is it with me tonight? ) and unless I read wrong they were asking if the rape should be illegal? Like, wtf?
And he also compares someone who is anti porn and living in a society where people look at porn (in the privacy of their own homes!) to someone who is raped and yet doesn’t get diseases or pregnancy or physical wounds.
Like… extra trigger warning in addition to the one Cloudiah gave for the article and David gives for the site.
Like… so his logic is someone is not unconscious so it’s okay for others to “reap the benefits” or them being unconscious by raping them. It is just too… GAAAAAH for words.
I have to admit, I was majorly skimming because this is so disgusting.
I’ve been a daily lurker for many months, to the point where my partner is wondering why a manboobz page is always open on my phone or tablet…and I only now figured out how to make a fully anonymous gravatar to be able to contribute. I’m not tech savvy.
I think this site, David, and the commenters who make me smile are great. This post, though, made me extremely confused. I thought I understood the MRM/MRA illogic…but not this. I have nothing insightful to add on that.
As a silly thank you to you all, here are some pictures of my favorite strange animals. Like a lot of you, I love beasts of all shapes and sizes. I have my own small dog, who is both a female and a feminist.
http://www.zooborns.com/.a/6a010535647bf3970b0115711eeca4970c-800wi
http://onemoregeneration.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/OMG-Trivia-07-25-11.jpg
Also, here is an AMAZING video of a walrus vocalizing. It’s loud, about 30 seconds.
http://www.wimp.com/walruspractices/
Good night!
Continuing the TRIGGER WARNING:
What “benefits” would any decent human being reap from raping an unconscious person? I just … GAH IT IS A TRICK QUESTION THERE IS NO BENEFIT.
Gah indeed. When you stare into the rape apology, it stares back into you.
So, to summarize, rape is OK as long as you make sure to drug the victim first? Does he work for whatever sketchy company makes roofies?
After skimming (a very, very) little more of that post, it seems to me like that guy is like Jaro or Dio… Cynic*. They like try to over intellectualize the whole thingie, like “well, when people turn on the lights, photons penetrate your skin** and no one would allow you to outlaw light.
It’s like… they think that people don’t count at all. And they think that surrounding the idea that people’s bodies don’t matter, or their mental wellbeing is “inquantifiable” and therefore doesn’t count, in big words and a pseudo-intellectual argument, they can out logic people who actually do give a shit about other human beings.
IDK… it’s just how it seems to me.
*(not saying his whole name. Does he have a google thingie set up to respond if he gets mentioned? Cuz I could swear last time his name popped up he was all like “I’m not Jaro!”)
**He actually said something like this. The linked article, not the two trolls.
G’night TomBcat!
“Also they’re not as good for snuggling.”
To the point I want a swim in tank…natural pool? You get the picture!my previous plec let me hand feed him (or maybe her, less sure on that one) — the loaches will play with my fingers. So straight swimming with them would probably freak them out, at least at first, but they’re surprisingly cool about hands (well, except my current plec, that grump is all “the evil hand! Upset the entire tank to hide!” [he’s as big as my damned forearm, he’s nothing to fear])
GAH THE COMMENTS, THE COMMENTS, Oh what a reasonable question you ask, let us just play around with that question as though no HUMAN BEINGS ARE INVOLVED because it is such an interesting question.
Oh for the love of the gods I can safely report that not knowing what actually happened is not better than knowing what happened.
Actual things that just happened: making tea, my father comes in, asks about my new tank light, how I afforded it, remind him that the state considers me crazy enough to give me welfare…”I don’t know why you’re playing the crazy card, you aren’t crazy!”
Totally spent an hour explaining my series of assaults, suicide attempts, assorted other symptoms because I’m not crazy, yep! At least I was making tea so I could make whiskey tea >.<
I am going to snorfle my kitties for a while and then go to sleep. Buster is rubbing her head against my arm like she knows I need snorfling.
Grah, sorry, you aren’t my therapist, just ignore me please.
No, Argenti, it’s fine I feel like there should have been even a bigger trigger warning or even one of those spoiler thingies. I just can’t wrap my head around someone thinking that is no big deal. As much privilege as I have, I still can’t imagine a world where a person can entertain that idea.
Okay, now I’m really going to bed.
I was just coming here to see if you guys had seen that disgusting article. You’re already on top of it. It makes me want to start a protest. I hope some women at that school will.
G’night cloudiah!
And honestly, I can’t fathom it either. I can grasp that some people (including at least one ex of mine) see um, sex with a too drunk to walk or speak partner as sex, fun, pleasurable. The filming and display of such partner to be a good joke. Twisted as that is, what I can’t fathom is people who pretend to be having a philosophical discussion saying shit like this:
“It is, I think, a red herring to say that there’s something peculiarly sacred about the boundaries of our bodies. Every time someone on my street turns on a porch light, trillions of photons penetrate my body.”
That’s like three fallacies wrapped up in a bow made without a shred of empathy. (Analogy failure, I’m angry, sorry my wit is failing me)
@cloudiah: to answer your question about Obama’s funding of brain research initiatives (I know I’m late to the discussion and also not David), if it’s the one I’m thinking of, a lot of people in the autistic community are pretty pissed. Not because we don’t want to understand the autistic brain, but because the emphasis on researching causes, prevention, and potential “cures” (personally I think a cure is impossible, but that’s another issue) takes away from funding for services that autistic people need in the here and now. Even people on the spectrum who would eventually like a cure would be much better served by greater access to social services and accommodations than by research on how to (maybe) prevent more autistic people from being born.
If this is a different thing than what I’m talking about, please disregard^
Could be a grepping loon, but there’s an even simpler explanation for why he might immediately know when someone mentioned him to Jaro…
I too am leaning towards katz’s explanation.
Well, I was asking a serious question, but I suppose that violence is worth mockery.
I’ll be taking screencaps, just in case.
Oh no, screencaps! Our plans to secretly erase this whole thread are dashed.
Now the whole world will know how much this community dislikes domestic violence against people of any gender and how MRAs actually undermine efforts for male victims of violence. Curse you zzzzzero!