Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
You know, if she’d connected the call to the cops, this ‘prankster’ could likely have been arrested for creating a bogus police call. That would’ve given me a happy.
He is both lying and delusional.
Of course the suckers at AvfM fall for this. They’ll fall for anything. Critical thinkers they aren’t–all you have to do is say “women” and they charge like half assed bulls.
“Reno” can go step on all the legos and pet all the cacti. What kind of sick fuck does this for lulz?
Wow…the vast majority of the call was taken up with the hotline person explaining several options and offering repeatedly to connect him. When he brought up the police, she even said (paraphrasing), “Calling the police and filing a complaint against your wife is the best idea, the police will probably make her leave the house so you and your child can stay,” so there goes the “they don’t take DV against men seriously” argument.
I also like how he mentioned his gender in the first couple of sentences (“they won’t take me because I’m a man”) but didn’t bring up the fact that he had a young child until several minutes into the conversation, after she’d already given him a couple of options. I’d be concerned about his parenting skills too, hotline operator.
Disgusting. I’ve called a women’s shelter exactly once, for an acquaintance who had been battered and was currently homeless, and they didn’t have room for her because she wasn’t currently being abused, but they gave me other numbers to try at various shelters. (She ended up staying the night in a hotel — her car, where she usually slept, was in the shop.) Shelter’s are up to their ears in need and have such scarce resources but they do their best; the fact that an MRA would take up some of those precious resources just to fail to make a point really galls me.
I think this call requires Pierre.
I guess technically he’s right that the battered women’s shelter wouldn’t take him but it is ridiculous for him to say that he was denied help when he was given alternatives.
What about all the women whose safety would be compromised if he went to the battered women’s shelter? Why should his desire to be housed there override the safety of the women there when there are alternatives?
Wait – did I get this wrong? He posted the recording of the call – so the MRAs could listen to it, listen to all those offers of help and STILL spout nonsense about how battered women’s shelters won’t help men? Sounds like he’s not the only one who is delusional or lying… Yeesh.
I dunno…maybe the same kind that used an alleged mental illness to justify not just trolling, but actually triggering people, on a feminist site where many of the participants have publically stated their own mental health issues, some related to being victims of violent crime, and use each other for support. Someone without morals and a true sociopath whose only intent is to harm people he believes are vulnerable.
…just saying
The confirmation bias is STRONGER THAN ANYTHING ELSE with these guys.
And, yes, there’s some damn good reasons we wouldn’t let a man who says he’s being battered into the battered womens’ shelter, dude. DAMN good reasons.
But, nope, ‘they won’t help me.’ I mean, hotels! Police!
If I was the person he was talking to and listening to him insist on where he wanted to be put my first thought would be ‘abuser.’ Like a great big blaring siren.
You know what harms men? Lying to them about their options if they are being abused. Congratu-fucking-lations.
Also nice to see you care enough about victims of abuse to tie up crisis lines you work.
Worm, work. Potato, potako.
An understatement.
The woman on the other end of the call was concerned, courteous, and engaged. She offered him multiple options for the situation he presented and offered to connect him to various services several times. This guy didn’t even edit the recording, ala Breitbart, to make it seem like she wasn’t professional and/or doing her job.
Just. So. Odd.
It’s unusual to see AVfM going for spin rather than lying outright. Reno did ask to be housed in a battered women’s shelter, and he was refused. Sure, the counselor’s efforts to put him in a shelter that is not specifically for women was elided, but the thing they said happened actually happened, in a different context.
(And the problems that single-gender or single-sex shelters fail to address, and the problems they exacerbate, have been brought up here, and in any case are not what AVfM is concerned with.)
Was he thinking the act of the phonecall would teleport him to a ‘battered womens shelter’? (is that really what they’re called?) and they refused to engage the teleporters because he’s a man?
Good work, Sherlock. Logic wins out again.
Howard, that was my thought as well. Especially since “Reno” wasn’t a very good actor and so the call was unusual from the start. I wouldn’t be surprised if that operator hung up the phone thinking that’s exactly what went down–some abuser was trying to find his partner who was hiding in a women’s shelter. She was very professional though and I was quite impressed at how she handled his odd behavior.
Although I have to ask, is it really that unusual for 6-year-olds to still be awake at 8:45 PM? Most kids that age I know go to bed between 8:30 and 9:00 PM, but I think school might start a little later here too. I’m just curious, so everyone feel free to ignore this if it’s derailing. 😉
You know how when you go to the doctor and say “I’m having pain, give me Vicodin,” she offers to actually treat the cause of the pain, or give you other painkillers, or give you exercises that might help? I guess he figured that just as if you insist on Vicodin she’ll eventually just give you Vicodin, the same tactic would work here.
Also notice that he opens the call by saying that the shelters wouldn’t take him because he’s a man. That’s like the first thing he says. MRAs can’t stop flogging their pet issues even when they’re tying to fake a persona. By the end of the call she’s totally onto him, maybe not that it’s a prank call but at least that it’s a weirdo who wants to sneak into a women’s shelter for some reason.
I also like the fumble with the son. “He’s, uh, wearing headphones. While he watches TV.”
That was more or less a rhetorical question, Joanimal, but thanks for the ‘splanation.
@Viscaria
You know what harms men? Lying to them about their options if they are being abused. Congratu-fucking-lations.
Seriously. This. Again and again, this.
This makes me feel sick in my tummy 🙁
“Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. ”
I imagine a lot of these hotline counselors are volunteers. I feel badly for the woman who took the call. I know people who have volunteered at other similar crisis hotlines, and the work can really weigh upon you, especially when you’re unable to help someone.
The counselor did everything right, even though this asshole expected her to magic up a shelter for him.
This deserves highlighting, because trans folks are very poorly served by many/most DV shelters in the US, and AVfM does not care about that in the slightest.
These guys should all have to get “citation needed” tattooed on their foreheads, so that everyone knows not to trust anything that comes out of their mouths, ever.
David, you might want to write something about this…http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/04/01/two-marriages-two-postmortems/
Especially the notation he makes at the bottom about marital rape.