I‘m beginning to wonder if every single complaint from manosphere misogynists comes back to their rage at the fact that women get to decide who can have sex with them. Take the following comment from MGTOWforums.com. The ostensible topic of conversation? A study reporting that women tend to feel more stressed than men at work. Watch how deftly MGTOWforums “senior member” 7 Deadly Sins turns the topic from “women in the workplace” to “my sad penis.”
They wanted to work so now they’re working. Oh work is too hard and stressing you out? Too bad. You wanted to be career whores, right ? Enjoy. If you give women what they ask for, they still want more. Who cares if they’re stressed out? They can always get dicked down and take some of the edge off. Men can’t get sex whenever they “feel” like it. Nobody cares what you whores think or feel any more.
Damn. That’s some pretty intense boner rage there, dude.
@Bagelson:
What is your rationale for believing stealing is wrong?
How is that inconsistent if I hate them and still am dependent on them? A galley slave was also dependent on the captain of the ship, still he did hate him.
With “fundamental value” I mean it doesn’t follow from other values or factual beliefs.
Sure… but free will, though it may be difficult to define, is definitely neither random chance nor deterministic causation. But we don’t know of anything else in physics! And if a system consisting of three atoms is governed by the laws of physics, and there’s no holism, a system of 10²³ atoms will be governed by the same laws, which leave no room for anything else but deterministic causation and random chance.
No, really, what’s your rationale for hating women? Any of them enslaving you? Didn’t think so.
Just a garden variety wankstain mad that a woman’s not catering to your every whim.
Are women human? Why can’t I just hate them, I mean, I have this totally cerebral philosophy and some ethics that let me call vast swathes of people sheep and I can’t figure out why you have a problem with it.
I mean its not like we can see or quantify in absolute terms my racist, misogynistic and homophobic thoughts and actions have on both individuals and societies… Its not like there’s any empiracle evidence. Its not like we should consider that someone saying “ouch, that hurts” as reason enough to stop stepping on their foot.
@Bagelson: The distinction between ethics and values on the one side and factual beliefs on the other is very important, don’t ignore that
Factual beliefs can be changed by rational arguments, which means communication, engaging in a collective search for truth. This will only become an imposition of beliefs if you intentionally deceive, like by using false evidence.
What rubbish.
One can have ethics and values, and have issues which touch on them. The attendent beliefs can also be changed by evidence, as shown by the people in this thread who have explained that core beliefs of theirs have changed.
Belief isn’t extant in a vacuum. We have touchstone ideals, and when they interact with the world the bedrock will shape the overburden.
Shaming others to articulate beliefs is imposition of beliefs and an especially pernicious variant of it, I might add, because you’ll blind yourself and others to rational counterarguments.
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. Some beliefs are shameful. Telling someone they should be ashamed for saying people who marry, “outside their race” are pigheaded assholes may not be completely politic, but it’s not morally wrong. It’s not even morally ambiguous.
But since moral nihilism is true,
It is? Evidence please.
Experiences of course influences ethical views and values, but you can’t force adults to make those, that would only breed anger and resistance. Like buyers of Findus 100% beef 100% horse lasagna weren’t happy for the opportunity to reconsider their attitudes about eating Horsey.
False Premise: Such a circumstance doesn’t provide an opportunity; it forces an experience.
And so it still stands that social norms or laws can’t make adults change their values and ethical views,
As said, the issue isn’t values/ethical views it’s social behavior. You can be a racist bigot all you like; so long as you don’t refuse to hire someone because they aren’t “x”. You are conflating beliefs with deeds.
I just wonder why complexity should magically make the brain behave radically different than ordinary matter, so that we can attribute a concept of causation to it that is completely unknown to physics.
Conflationary premises seem to be your stock in trade. Must be handy with the ill-informed.
The issue isn’t how the physics of the brain function, but how the nature of the abstract objects which it deals with are used. If you can show me the equations which are required for, “misogyny”, and how they can be manufactured outside a human brain, then you might have a functional argument. Until you do, you are (again) conflating two things.
IIRC the law doesn’t consider “victim was drunk” as a mitigating factor… why isn’t that enough?
Because, as you said above, the issue is social behavior. When a jury says, “not guilty” and the only mitigation offered was, “the victim was drunk”, that’s shameful. Making people ashamed/fear shame for being on such a jury is not a bad thing, since the shame is for not upholding the law/being a decent human being.
– To make a true Bavarian Cream you have to make a Creme Anglaise first, and this is a bit tricky (especially without a thermometer)
Dude… creme anglaise predates accurrate themometers. When I said it was simple it’s because it’s simple. I can practically do it in my sleep.
I already made a Linzer Torte, what’s so difficult about it?
A classic linzer is made with no flour, save that used in the crust. Keeping it from becoming either too dry, or from splitting in the course of being filled, that’s a matter of technique, trickier than creme anglaise.
Napoleon aka Mille-Feuille: so many easy variants with pre-made puff pastry
Right… see that’s it, you aren’t talking about making; but assembling. I’m talking about making.
Sort of like making real Danish, most people don’t even try.
But I don’t understand why you’re so upset, what’s so bad about moving the goalposts, somehow people here are especially paranoid about this “fallacy”… Is the problem that I don’t acknowledge the refutation (I acknowledge it, I’ll reconsider my position, there was too much stuff I’ve never heard about)? Or is it generally not allowed to concede something?
What’s wrong with it…? You aren’t “acknowleging the refutation”, you are pretending “the real issue” still hasn’t been addressed. It’s fundamentally dishonest; and not in the least careless (as you admit).
Actually my claim is much more nuanced.
Then share that, “nuance”.
@pecunium – *applauds* thank you for wading into that shitpile. My eyes were crossing trying to follow the pseudowank.
Wait, were we supposed to care what Jaro has to say?
That’s cheerful.
Anyway
Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Your claim boils down to one big ol’ tone argument coupled with arrogance. If we were just nicer in stating we were human, people would REALLY come around and not just harbor the resentment you assume everyone else must have because it’s what you have. You think you’re so much better because you think you’re acting objectively, but you aren’t. What you’re saying isn’t new and it isn’t clever. It’s a fancy pants reiteration of the same ol’ misogyny.
You give yourself away with this:
You are basically saying that more marginalized people should be tasked with proving their humanity to the very people who would deny that they are human. And what’s really sad is you’re using a third rate book to do it. Poorly, I might add. That is tacit bullshit. If only because telling marginalized people to “prove” their humanity is yet another form of oppression (and also a silencing tactic, though one I’ll note you don’t seem to have a problem with).
Jaros: For a dude who is trying to present as one who has carefully weighed the issues… This is the best you can do?
Don’t you have the courage of your convictions? In any case, the retort that someone else needs to justify themself, when it’s your belief being question isn’t even a copout. It’s not an argument. It’s giving up (and no, the idea that x is justifiable, doesn’t mean that y is therefore also justifiable, esp when the two ideas are antithetical).
I hate them and still am dependent on them? A galley slave was also dependent on the captain of the ship, still he did hate him.
So you hate women because they are oppressing you, and holding you in absolute servitude; with the power of life and death?
Please explain how they do that.
“are women human?” are you arguing they aren’t?
If so you need to prove it.
If not, then what was the point of that small piece of, “nuance”?
WHAAAAAT?!
That made no sense, especially given how you’re all like “Well, people silencing misogyny is baaaaad” earlier. So should people only silence things you don’t agree with.
FTFY
now, I’m not really in the food conversation because I admit to being a horrible cook, but what kind of logic accepts both “Women are lazy for not buying whole chickens” and “traditional streuel is way too much work”. I mean, do you admit to being lazy here? Or can only women be lazy?
Anyway, I may have repeated stuff other people said, so sorry if I rehashed, but I’m not done catching up on the conversation yet.
Also, Jaro, now that you have admitted to knowing your a misogynist, which you know was crystal clear earlier anyway, why should any of us even give an inkling of a crap as to what you’re saying? And if you try to say “intellectual arguments” I will die laughing.
@Bagelson:
What is your rationale for believing stealing is wrong?
OMG! Hilarious!
Oh, wait, were you being serious?
Jaro, you’ve got to actually answer a question, not lamely duck out of the way.
STEALING IS WRONG BECAUSE IT HARMS OTHER PEOPLE. HATING WOMEN IS WRONG BECAUSE IT HARMS OTHER PEOPLE. IT IS THAT SIMPLE*
*well, I don’t think it’s actually that simple, but Jaro needs itty bitty baby steps. So it STARTS that simple.
You are not a slave. You are a privileged dickhead.
And I’m pretty sure the slave did not depend on the captain until HE WAS MADE A SLAVE. I’m pretty sure before that, he was just fine.
Come on now, ladies, we have to stop enslaving Jaro by not giving him sex on demand and refusing to make his Buche de Noel for him.
@Viscaria
Oh barf. >:( who wrote that? blah. Hate police. you’re right. so much less trust. Trust plummeting. Police, you already didn’t have any trust to lose from me, you’re like negative now. blah. blah. rant. rage.
@jaro
um, Jaro, I’m not sure how to break this to you but it was an expression… yeah I wasn’t actually trying to talk to God through the internet…I mean I’m not sure how to explain this one to you.
I would be a lot more fine with not silencing judgy bitch and people like her if they weren’t, oh yeah sending death threats at someone. I don’t care what the heck your politics are, no fucking threats. God*, this is like decent human being shit here, jaro, please get it together.
*also an expression. I never realized I had to clarify this stuff before meeting you 😛
If you actually were depressed and some book helped you, congrats. If not, then ffs being sad =! depression. Words have meanings, Jaro.
Also, I am really curious the sort of argument one would need to make to argue that they’ll end up as genetically modified slaves of a dictator…yeah not seeing it.
Jaro: comes in, makes arguement.
everyone else: wait that argument had some major holes, responses/ mockery, depending on the boobzer.
jaro: bored now new topic.
short story: you change the subject whenever people bother to reply to your old one. Almost as if you are being dishonest, and aren’t actually trying to have a debate like I think you’re pretending.
*dies laughing*
okay jaro, I’m going to give you extreme benefit of doubt and you didn’t mean to imply that it is so obvious you should hate women it’s like asking why stealing is wrong. actually, no, I’m not. Go swallow a lego.
I love how in his view, women are not worthy of strudel made from scratch. That’s OK though, I don’t think a lot of women are lining up for his strudel in the first place.
@hellkell: I think the no-strudel-for-women was the most hilarious part! He’s like “you want my strudel? Well, you can’t have my strudel. ‘Cause you’re a girl. Wait, come back, I have strudel! …Pay attention to me!! STRUDEL!!!”
“Only toaster strudel for you, woman“
“Pseudo-Strudels for the Women” would be an excellent album title, though.
Jaro doesn’t care if we take him seriously. He’s just getting a thrill out of telling women how much he hates them (I’m not sure whether he believes it or not, but it’s a shitty thing to do to people either way).
I’m imagining an Incredible String Band/Fairport Convention-y psych-folk group.
At least we get to laugh at him? :shrugs: 😀
Though if he’s bugging you, I’m all for ignoring him until he goes away. I mean, I’m not really invested in the matter either way.
I’m just amused at his, “Bavarian Creme is so hard… Struedel? OMFG NO! Too Much Work!!!!!”
Never mind that it was “little old ladies” who taught me how to lay out the tablecloth and work the dough for struedel and phyllo; as well as a woman who taught me the technique for real danish.
But when it comes to mille fueille, that’s tote’s easy because you can buy the pastry pre-made.
But getting a cut up chicken (or parts) is so fucking lazy that women are destroying the planet by doing it. Never mind that a lot of the parts are chopped out because the back and wings are used for making canned soup. Yes, there is a market for selling cheap cuts of meat on the cheap to impoverished nations, but that’s not because women are buying skinless breasts of chicken, it’s because there is money to be made doing it.
Since there is money to be made, MEN* are making the decision to exploit people. But Struedel… that’s hard dudes, too hard for him (the guy who needs a thermometer to make Creme Anglaise. I’ll bet he uses a bain marie for his hollandaise too, and a blender for mayonnaise).
*unless Jaros can show me the executives at Tyson, Empire, etc. who made the decisions which led to that secondary market are women, then I’m going to blame the men at the top. They are the CEOs, that means they get the responsibility/blame as well as the millions of dollars a year. Accountability, it’s not just for women anymore.
Swallow a cactus, Jaro.
And now I want strudel, or maybe a nice cheese danish. So many Man Boobz discussions end up just making me hungry.
Anyone got a good phyllo how to? I’d love to learn how to make a more challenging pastry!
Yum!
Pecunium: According to our MRA shitwits, women don’t have any accountability, and that’s what has their nuts in an uproar.