I‘m beginning to wonder if every single complaint from manosphere misogynists comes back to their rage at the fact that women get to decide who can have sex with them. Take the following comment from MGTOWforums.com. The ostensible topic of conversation? A study reporting that women tend to feel more stressed than men at work. Watch how deftly MGTOWforums “senior member” 7 Deadly Sins turns the topic from “women in the workplace” to “my sad penis.”
They wanted to work so now they’re working. Oh work is too hard and stressing you out? Too bad. You wanted to be career whores, right ? Enjoy. If you give women what they ask for, they still want more. Who cares if they’re stressed out? They can always get dicked down and take some of the edge off. Men can’t get sex whenever they “feel” like it. Nobody cares what you whores think or feel any more.
Damn. That’s some pretty intense boner rage there, dude.
The Right Kind of Women need to realise they are just like the rest of us..They are us. The feminists, the sluts, the queers, the housewives, the working women. None of us are exempt. The men aren’t exempt either, not by a long shot. But their twisted logic makes it a game, us versus you and they are only hurting their own cause in the end.
Damn my bile fascination that kept me from going to sleep. I haven’t actually gone to AVfM in months and I thought I would take a look at JB’s articles for… some reason, I don’t know. On her “You weren’t raped. Join the club” article there is the following comment:
That sure makes me trust the police even less than I already did.
Cannonball, I fear their “cause” is the status quo, aka injustice, suffering, and un-freedom*, which is why they believe so strongly that they are helping their own cause by being asshats in many forums.
0_0
*What? That’s a word.
Oh Viscaria, I am so sorry you read that right before trying to go to sleep. Would a capybara who cares for abandoned puppies help you wash the taste of that out of your brain?
@ cloudiah | Unfortunately, knowing this doesn’t make me less ragey! It’s like one of those magic-eye pictures. You see it so clearly and you are getting grumpy waiting for them to catch up.
The only cure for ragey is animal videos. 😉
Well that might just be the best advice!
Animals that raise other animal babies are the best! I’m totally alright though, just rolling my eyes at my choice. Soft comfy bed? Naw. How about some rape apologism!
Instead here are some kitty snuggles:
http://youtu.be/J0FIbSFe4d4
Aw, my kitties do that. They’re sisters. I’ve always had pairs of cats, but I’ve never had cats who really loved each other like that.
Here’s another cute picture.
@Viscaria
Sorry you ran across that. The sad fact is that hateful people hate. All of us suffer from confirmation bias to some degree, but I was genuinely surprised by how police officers who happened to be bigoted could hang on to their hateful beliefs despite contrary evidence.
I was a cop for 5 years and the above idiot is lying or his hate makes him awful at his job. Either way, he is a horror of a human being.
@WeeBoy
I meant to say this much earlier…
I am sorry those cops treated your trans friend so poorly. There is so much prejudice about trans people: I can honestly say everything the senior police officers ‘taught’ me in the 1980s me was wrong. It is sad that things don’t sound much improved. Maybe things are better here in Los Angeles compared to NZ, but I honestly don’t know.
I really must remember your remark the other day about “always swallow the tea before reading the next comment”.
Talacaris can be almost funny when he drops the intellectually dishonest trolling. (and his grammar-trolling here was a complete and utter failure, of course) In fact, he can be almost not boring.
But he doesn’t care enough about things like truth and justice to ever stop being boring.
A lot like JudgyBitch in that way.
An antidote to their boringness. http://www.xojane.com/family/what-my-mother-taught-me-about-the-eff-words-feminism-and-fear
Please pay attention to me! Please please please! I’m still relevant, I promise! *flails*
It’s really rather pathetic, she’s trying to stir up traffic for her site by negging people here, but it’s barely even a proper neg.
I’m personally rather dubious of the idea that mocking people actually does silence them (see also, US politicians wanking on major news networks about “legitimate rape” and then doubling down on that bullshit when there was righteous outrage over that) mostly I’m just of the opinion that mocking the horrible things horrible people say at least makes their odious word-vomit have entertainment value. Plus, it’s not like the trolls don’t make it easy for us.
@Argenti
I know a few people in the Boston area matching that description. Or you could go to Diesel in Somerville (especially when the kinky or poly groups are meeting there). Davis Square is like Mecca for queer kinky poly folks.
Frankly, I’m “the right kind of woman” when I keep my mouth shut; young, white, cis, feminine-presenting, upper-middle class, American, in a monogamous relationship — I’m probably “righter” than JudgyBitch in a lot of wayts. Do I think that trumps reality, or keeps me safe no matter what? Fuck no. And does that mean I should throw other women (who by choice or chance are not “right”) under the bus? FUCK NO.
If you’re privileged, you should use that to help those who are less privileged; this means talking about racism, this means going to slut walks, this means not calling people “whores” or “tr*nnies” and calling out those who do. I’m not top of the heap but I’m up in that general vicinity, and that means I often have the social power to say “hey, here’s the thing” and be listened to (or at least tolerated.) Even if it’s just putting pressure on the men in my life not to be assholes, even if it’s just insisting that they respect my delicate sensibilities and stop saying X, that’s more than a lot of people have.
Yep. This is why I hate the “you can’t change people” nonsense. I’m living proof that you can. And I’m not convinced that silencing people (oh noes!) won’t change their minds anyway. Yeah, for a very long time growing up we had to just shut my dad up when he’d say racist shit, but finally he seems to be getting WHY we weren’t down with his occasional racist snarks. He’s nearly 70. He’s not perfect, but he’s changed, most certainly for the better.
I remember being insecure about bringing my first husband to meet my father back in the mid-1980s. Dad was a cradle Catholic WWII veteran, and Manuel was a Chinese-Panamanian interior designer. I was surprised at how well they got along, until my younger sister pointed out, “This is his last chance to get a Catholic son-in-law; he’s not going to screw it up.” After what my older siblings had put him through, Manuel looked really good. I sometimes look back and think that, if it hadn’t been for the gayness, I could have wound up as one of the red-caped loons in Tradition,Family, Property. So glad for the gayness.
@Bagelson: The distinction between ethics and values on the one side and factual beliefs on the other is very important, don’t ignore that
Factual beliefs can be changed by rational arguments, which means communication, engaging in a collective search for truth. This will only become an imposition of beliefs if you intentionally deceive, like by using false evidence.
Shaming others to articulate beliefs is imposition of beliefs and an especially pernicious variant of it, I might add, because you’ll blind yourself and others to rational counterarguments. It will not just silence ignorant, stupid grandpa, it will also force troll’s remorse in Nobel Laureates (James Watson) or John Bates Clark Medalists (Larry Summers).
Average human Sheepie has neither the knowledge nor the resources to test claims about complex matters. Ze depends on others, on a free exchange of ideas. So the real question is, when shaming is efficient, how do we know it really made Sheepie recognize it’s mistakes (that ze feels that way doesn’t prove anything, might be just an illusion!) instead of just cutting Sheepie off from the truth and misleading zir?
Now to values and ethics. I grudgingly must admit, that two types of rational arguments are possible here:
(1) Questioning consistency (e. g. you can present ethical dilemmas)
(2) Questioning definitions and how they are applied (like if you adopt “don’t do to other humans what you don’t want other humans do to you” the question “are women human?” becomes important)
But since moral nihilism is true, any other argument about ethics is imposition of beliefs, it can only amount to emotional bullying.
Experiences of course influences ethical views and values, but you can’t force adults to make those, that would only breed anger and resistance. Like buyers of Findus 100% beef 100% horse lasagna weren’t happy for the opportunity to reconsider their attitudes about eating Horsey.
And so it still stands that social norms or laws can’t make adults change their values and ethical views, if they were not already vulnerable by criticism through (1) & (2), it will just manage to silence them – in those cases we’re not dealing with sheep but with donkeys.
Now when I say I’m a misogynist it’s just a fundamental value I’ve adopted, maybe it was caused by my experiences with women (allegorical portrayal) but that doesn’t matter. It’s not irrational or inconsistent.
Sure, sure, it’s still in one of these states at any moment. We’ve heard a lot about responsibility, control and free will here. I just wonder why complexity should magically make the brain behave radically different than ordinary matter, so that we can attribute a concept of causation to it that is completely unknown to physics. The only way that would work would be by postulating holistic natural laws… but holism has quite a bad track record (and now don’t tell me thermodynamics is a holistic theory).
@Marie
Nope, that really happened. Where is your God now?
IIRC the law doesn’t consider “victim was drunk” as a mitigating factor… why isn’t that enough? In a sense that’s already a discrimination of a minority ethical position. Why do we still want to silence JudgyBitch (as long as she doesn’t start to act on those convictions, like this British “cutie pie”) why can’t we just negotiate a truce with her (like “the law won’t change, but feel free to espouse your ethical views”), behind which wholesome mutual contempt can flourish?
Well, I was in a deep depression when I imagined how the next generation might end up living in what liberal would consider their utopia. John Gray with his book “Straw Dogs” gave me new hopes. He convincingly argued that it’s far more likely that they’ll end up as genetically modified slaves of some run-of-the-mill dictator.
@Pecunium:
– To make a true Bavarian Cream you have to make a Creme Anglaise first, and this is a bit tricky (especially without a thermometer), you want it well thickened but if it gets too hot it will curdle and all is lost 🙁 also when you lighten it up with whipped cream you want it well mixed but you don’t want it to collapse. I’ve got a lot of practice making it, also with the fruit based variants, but when I made it the first time it was one of the few challenging recipes (not that it’s so much work, though)…
– I already made a Linzer Torte, what’s so difficult about it?
– Traditional streudel ZOMG waaaaaaaay to much work, I’m not going to do that… (especially if used to feed women, pseudo-streudels made with pre-made puff pastry should suffice…)
– Buche de Noël… I made other Genoise based cakes… but I admit that seems difficult… maybe I’ll try it someday…
– Napoleon aka Mille-Feuille: so many easy variants with pre-made puff pastry
Now I just was talking about desserts and now we’re talking talking about libido… that feels so wrong…
But I don’t understand why you’re so upset, what’s so bad about moving the goalposts, somehow people here are especially paranoid about this “fallacy”… Is the problem that I don’t acknowledge the refutation (I acknowledge it, I’ll reconsider my position, there was too much stuff I’ve never heard about)? Or is it generally not allowed to concede something?
@Fade:
I meant the following (this is mainly about factual beliefs):
If drst really believes (I’d like to see the evidence because superficial change in behavior doesn’t prove anything) that shaming certain beliefs made people change their minds in a way they would subjectively describe just as an “encouragement to think”, why assume something very different went on, when things changed to the worse, like when we went from racism to ((racism²)²)²?
And since I’ve already got a fool’s license, I’m going to drop a Godwin now: Now guess what is the last line spoken in “Hitlerjunge Quex”?
“It’s in our Germany. You know, you really ought to give that some thought.“.
Oh, the irony!
@ostara321
Actually my claim is much more nuanced.
Wake up sheeple, Jaro has dropped some truth!
Anyone who reads the Daily Fail and uses “sheeple” is not someone I have to take seriously.
Bzzzzt, you fail, Jaro. NEXT!
How cute, he wants us to call a truce with the likes of Judgybitch. Not gonna happen, I have no reason to settle with those who would wish me active harm.
Get fucked.
Now when I say I’m a misogynist it’s just a fundamental value I’ve adopted, maybe it was caused by my experiences with women (allegorical portrayal) but that doesn’t matter. It’s not irrational or inconsistent.
Really? What’s your “rationale” for hating women? And as for consistency, how do you reconcile your hatred of women with your dependency on them for so many things in life? Furthermore, when you say misogyny is a “fundamental value”, do you believe you would be a fundamentally different person if you, say, didn’t hate women? Is that really an integral part of your identity, hating someone?
I just wonder why complexity should magically make the brain behave radically different than ordinary matter, so that we can attribute a concept of causation to it that is completely unknown to physics.
Bullshit. Have you heard of emergent properties?