I‘m beginning to wonder if every single complaint from manosphere misogynists comes back to their rage at the fact that women get to decide who can have sex with them. Take the following comment from MGTOWforums.com. The ostensible topic of conversation? A study reporting that women tend to feel more stressed than men at work. Watch how deftly MGTOWforums “senior member” 7 Deadly Sins turns the topic from “women in the workplace” to “my sad penis.”
They wanted to work so now they’re working. Oh work is too hard and stressing you out? Too bad. You wanted to be career whores, right ? Enjoy. If you give women what they ask for, they still want more. Who cares if they’re stressed out? They can always get dicked down and take some of the edge off. Men can’t get sex whenever they “feel” like it. Nobody cares what you whores think or feel any more.
Damn. That’s some pretty intense boner rage there, dude.
Gotta run, but since Jaro is back, I just wanted to drop off something for him. Behold – a Kappa male.
http://www.matthewmeyer.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Kappa.jpg
Clifford: All I said was that there are two ways to look at this.
Reductionist, and wrong. MRA/MGTOW are not one thing. MRA/MGTOW are not the only ways of being, “not a feminist”. Feminism is not the only way to not be an MRA/MGTOW.
So, before you get to the (putative) arguments, you are hopelessly wrong.
Clearly I should get on that. I hope the feminist hive mind sends me a cat, or something, for my loyalty. XD
It’s true, feminists are born, not made. You can’t get someone to believe something different ever. That’s why I still believe that if I ate a watermelon seed it could grow a watermelon in my stomach and why everyone still believes the world is flat, despite vast amounts of empirical data that says otherwise. /sarcasm
I can only conclude that Jaro has such a very dim view of humanity because Jaro is either an extremely hard-headed or an extremely young person (or both) for whom learning is such a new thing zie assumes learning is this hugely insurmountable thing that rarely ever happens for other people as well. Pro tip: most people in this world are perfectly capable of learning, unlearning and relearning shit. That is a huge part of learning how to live in this world.
As for determining whether something is wrong or not, please, do you really think this is going to be the first time any of us has heard that what’s right and wrong can be subjective? Do you really think you’re going to blow any minds with that philosophizing? Not that you’re mentioning that theory for any reason other than to try to say misogyny is totally honky dory. Saying that hateful things like the MRM are only subjectively wrong is disingenuous in the extreme. I can recognize that morality can be subjective while still acknowledging that the vast majority of MRA websites push an extremely hateful message, which is harmful to everyone, not just the women who most of their ire is directed at.
LBT:
RE: Clifford
Ah, Voltaire. Wonder how many trolls he got in his time…
Actually it wasn’t Voltaire. It was a hagiographer of his, who manufactured the sentiment to show what a swell guy Voltaire was.
Clifford:
Are you that stupid? The suggestion is that you go and find someplace to make a valiant (and final) stand for peoples’ right to disagree with you. You get to choose the time, the place, the action.
If there is violene, you are seeking it out (in keeping with the platitude you pretend is your sincere belief: self-valorsation at it’s most transparent).
“The subjects were 12 primates: 4 chimpanzees, 4 humans and 4 bonobos. There were two males and two females in each group”
Male and female used as nouns; oh the horror and Gramatically INCORRECT. How should it be rewritten?
Argenti: Now, if anyone has hints how to inquire with someone as to whether they’d be interested, with a whole series of oddities (please tell me how many kinky poly okay-with-gender-meh/are-genderqueer people there are? Because I kinda suspect the odds of finding another one who isn’t the not-an-ex remotely resemble the odds of asteroid strikes…and, oh yeah, I’m crazy and nobody wants to date crazy)
If you were in SF I could introduce you to some, who could then vouch for you to others. I could probably find connections in NYC.
Talacris, how long did you spend scouring the net for that one and only possible case? While also overlooking using female (to refer to a woman) and man in the same sentence?
The ONLY two places I’ve seen that are acceptable to refer to women as female is the military and in medical practice. And you’ll note that when they use female to refer to women, they ALSO use the adjective male to refer to men.
Short answer: women aren’t bonobos, dipshit.
@talcaris
people =! animals (or I guess they do, depending on point of view, but that’s not the debate here.) When you use men instead of males for human men and females for human women it is DEHUMANISING! Note how it was just used with primates where you quoted from, and also note how you wouldn’t know a context clue if it was dancing around in the air screaming ‘I am a context clue’.
lol Pretty much my reaction!
Re: the baggy pants thing, that makes way more sense than the horrific “prison bitch, tee hee” theory. (Note: I fucking hate that shit.)
Oh, get over yourself. Obviously that is OK, and obviously that’s not what people are talking about. People try and simplify it to the deliberately obtuse as “don’t use it as a noun” but English in particular has a million exceptions even if you’re going to be incredibly literal.
It is fucking embarrassingly plain that the problem is calling women “females” when you would call men “men” (or not mention their sex at all, as default). You all just play stupid and it’s painful.
It talcaris the boringest troll ever? Because I didn’t even notice he posted until other people responded to him.
I mean, I kind of read the comment, but my brain was just like “Whatever” and skimmed over it.
Haha. I have to mention about people above that the quote is referring to 4 humans as male and female. In a totally appropriate context. *rolls eyes*
Funnily enough, before I’d really observed the use of female online I had a coworker that used it. It weirded me the fuck out. He was such an interesting example of a young man: we spent a lot of time talking about relationships, he wasn’t really misogynistic but trying to stop him thinking entirely in stereotypes (that were making him really happy!) was incredibly hard.
Oops. *unhappy.
I don’t need to take Jaro seriously, because he called the Daily Mail reputable, and that’s real.
But this. THIS SHIT:
Didn’t you ever think that some people are so heinous they SHOULD be silenced? If JB and her ilk had to go underground, too bad, so sad.
Not every view is deserving of airtime. Once you get that through your thick skull, you’ll be OK.
And don’t turn what I said into 1st Amendment wank, Jaro, because you will be wrong.
Oo, I’d been ignoring him again, but DAMN RIGHT we want to silence that shit. If the best we can do is fuckheads feeling they are not entitled to air their disgusting views lest they be ostracised, it’s good enough.
The cynical observer that is me, has noted that opinions like Bitchy’s usually only turn around when they (or someone REALLY close to them) experiences exactly the bullshit they were spewing.
I’m fairly certain that Bitchy might stop to think long and hard if her sister or daughter were raped. Its better than never changing, never thinking it through and ultimately it will be Bitchy that has to live with herself and the way she thinks and the shame. And that, is an optimistic viewpoint. Sadly.
More proof that the US is a very unsettling place to live:
http://m.magicvalley.com/news/local/state-investigates-complaint-about-dietrich-science-teacher-s-human-reproduction/article_47dec69a-963f-11e2-a856-001a4bcf887a.html
Some of it sounds a little questionable, but showing an inconvient truth is not “advocating” for a political candidate.
Racist and sexist dickwads are bad and should feel bad, and I am completely fine with shaming them into silence even if it doesn’t change their minds.
I am so behind on the comments. Can everyone please stop commenting until tomorrow so that I can catch up? 😀
It’s like Jaro’s never changed hir mind about something or had an idea developed or matured.
Once upon a time I was a “pro-life” Catholic with more conservative leanings. Clearly I’ve only been SILENCED into becoming a pro-choice atheist liberal hippie. It wasn’t at all a conscious choice based on learning to reassess information I gleaned from others.
The idea that people cannot grow in their beliefs, or grow beyond harmful ones takes a really really sad view of life in general I think. It’s basically assuming that people are incapable of learning which is patent bullshit. Yes, some people have a harder time than others, particularly about certain subjects, but it’s obviously not impossible.
Sorry, I should have said “asshats” instead of “dickwads.” I try not to use gendered insults
Also, I really want David to illustrate a post with this image.
“Once upon a time I was a “pro-life”
CatholicBaptist with more conservative leanings. Clearly I’ve only been SILENCED into becoming a pro-choice atheist/pagan liberal hippie. It wasn’t at all a conscious choice based on learning to reassess information I gleaned from others.”You too huh?!
Yes I’m ignoring Jaro, I’m already 2 Ativan into today and don’t feel like needing a third (got my SSI hearing notice earlier, they didn’t update my file with the info I sent in January, I need a lawyer and to send them the same shit all over again, I swear to all the gods they employ the biggest idiots they can find)
Pecunium — I appreciate the offer but your knowledge of local~ lawyers would be more helpful at present.
Irony really dies online, I’ll never learn. But Cassandra, I can also make a true Bavarian cream, can you do that? (admittedly my most advanced dessert… 😉 ) oh, I forgot, you’re supposed to be plonked.
The fuck? Bavarian Creamn is basic. Curry is harder. Now, if you were making a Buche de Noël, ora Napoleon, or a Linzer Torte, or a Streudel… you know, things that are hard, you might have a gotcha there; but no, all you have is proof that you can’t actually give up your fascinatin with Cassandra; thought is a bit ironic.
I’m going for a cultural argument. Except for the early modern age in Europe (A) and contemporary Western culture (B), it was always unequivocally accepted that men very often want to have sex with women who don’t want to have sex with them and not the other way around….
This is, of course, false. For much of history women were seen as insatiable (this was, for example the Greek and Roman attitude).
<i Because comedy is famous for in no way reflecting the culture of the time.
Now, do I really need to refute this argument? Ok, one hint: what’s perceived as comical isn’t often realistic.
Um… so we can add a lack of comprehension of the role of the tragic and comedic arts in Athenian poltics; and that comedy was a mirror held to nature. It was a mirror to the culture, with aspects seen as normal married to things which weren’t. The “unnatural” aspect of Lysistrata was 1: the idea that women had serious interest in politics and 2: would be able to organise such a resistance.
That they were unable to pull it off was the “real world” intruding to the farce.
We can, however, move to Ireland, and, “The War of the Dun Cow” where a queen, in competition with her husband over who had the greater wealth (in subjects, since “fealty” was not inherently assumed; and people would pledge it to whomever they liked, king or queen), and was bargaining for the use of the aforementioned Dun Cow (whuch was the only thing in Ireland pledged to neither of them; and they were evenly matched), said she would seal the bargain by, “covering you with my happy thighs”.
In Europe Eve’s Wantoness (and the tale of Lilith) were seen as proof of the licentious nature of women. The number of accusations, against women who were being politically active, of various types of sexual misconduct (esp. common in the Merovingian era, when women had various ways to lay hands on the levers of power) show that the idea of “men active/women passive” wasn’t established yet.
I’m still unimpressed, what about what transitioning trans* people tell us about their libido? MTF: down. FTM: up (on average)
You stupid fuckwit. I know this moving of the goalposts wasn’t a careless mistake (though I am sure you having it pointed out won’t damage you ego). We weren’t talking about your idea of the essential nature of male/female libido. What you said was, I’m going for a cultural argument.,and the response you just ducked was evidence for cultural beliefs.
But to be honest, I thought that she as a woman would be useful for cooking. Probably you’re right, that’s just a stereotype. Just have a look at modern Western women, they are even too fussy to dismantle a chicken.
And you say you aren’t sexist. Blaming that on women; when it seems that, were you being non-sexist; the blame for such a thing would have to be evenly apportioned, with men (like yourself) who think they are too good to take a chicken apart, and insist that women do their cooking.