I‘m beginning to wonder if every single complaint from manosphere misogynists comes back to their rage at the fact that women get to decide who can have sex with them. Take the following comment from MGTOWforums.com. The ostensible topic of conversation? A study reporting that women tend to feel more stressed than men at work. Watch how deftly MGTOWforums “senior member” 7 Deadly Sins turns the topic from “women in the workplace” to “my sad penis.”
They wanted to work so now they’re working. Oh work is too hard and stressing you out? Too bad. You wanted to be career whores, right ? Enjoy. If you give women what they ask for, they still want more. Who cares if they’re stressed out? They can always get dicked down and take some of the edge off. Men can’t get sex whenever they “feel” like it. Nobody cares what you whores think or feel any more.
Damn. That’s some pretty intense boner rage there, dude.
@ drst- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Jaro: Oh, trust me–you self-sabotage quite enough. In fact, I’m inclined to ask you to make better arguments that might actually require some thought to counter, but then, you’re really not worth the effort.
pillowinhell: Oh, there’s lots of racism involved in the whole phenomenon, as you note. The suburban white kids appropriate the symbols without understanding their history and symbolism (thus leaving them culturally vacant); then their parents and grandparents use this as evidence of ‘black culture’ being inherently subversive and dangerous (and thus, to the condemnation of ‘black culture’ that has nothing to do with the actual culture being criticized, but rather, with the distorted version of it created by mass media). How subcultures interact with dominant cultures is a huge part of comprehending social justice issues. It’s this weird, “make it dangerous so you can make it safe” process. I’m just really coming to understand it myself–The Crommunist over at Freethought Blogs has done several columns that have helped me see how the process works, and what the function of it is in maintaining the dominant society.
@thenatfantastic:
I wrote “fellow female student”… what should I write instead? I refuse to use “fellow woman student”.
@drst: All idle talk, you’re doomed to fail anyway. I set my hope on technological progress. Your story will end, end miserably. The possibility to manipulate the human genome will concentrate power to such insane degrees and give it to we-don’t-know-yet, this will crush all your pathetic endeavours. You cannot win.
Reading comprehension? I asked you how to prove that these beliefs are bigoted or wrong, because beliefs which are now regarded as extremely bigoted and wrong have been just as easily adopted in the past. Everything you wrote just proves that most humans are sheeps. So it’s not like you give people just a little pat on their moral compass and they realize the truth themselves, you impose your beliefs on others.
All idle talk, you’re doomed to fail anyway. I set my hope on technological progress. Your story will end, end miserably. The possibility to manipulate the human genome will concentrate power to such insane degrees and give it to we-don’t-know-yet, this will crush all your pathetic endeavours. You cannot win.
You’re a terrible science fiction writer. The Gates to Women’s Country already did that story, and did it better.
So it’s not like you give people just a little pat on their moral compass and they realize the truth themselves, you impose your beliefs on others.
Wrong. I myself have gotten a “pat” or two on the moral compass and recognized my mistakes, and I certainly know other people who need as little as a sentence or two of education to change their minds about something. People like to believe both that they are right. If you can properly teach someone a method by which they may ascertain their “rightness” (eg. the scientific method) then they will have the means to correct themselves when wrong, and will often do so.
Changing the culture also prevents people from passing on ridiculous ideas to their children and the next generations; if grandpa believes that black people are inferior, but he knows it’s not acceptable to say so, maybe granddaughter will grow up without it ever occurring to her to think otherwise. Hell, just having a daughter or granddaughter in the first place has been shown to alter people’s beliefs about women and sexism. That’s a very little “pat.”
@Freemage
Great breakdown of sagging. I was gonna suggest that it started with the urban/hiphop culture, but growing up there seemed to be a parallel movement in the skateboarding community. I was wondering if sagging was appropriated by the skateboarding community, or if it was actually parallel? I didn’t grow up in N America so while I was heavily influenced by the growth of hip hop, I was also a little removed from it.
Shadow: I’m less familiar with the skateboarding community overall; I do know that it’s heavily focused in suburban and upper-middle-class urban neighborhoods (where the locals have the means to build decent skate parks, for instance). This would put them at the forefront of the ‘appropriation’ phase I talked about.
GAMMA RABBIT!
Urgh, blockquote fail.
That was supposed to be in response to this.
New troll is a little behind.
About the sagging pants appropriation… would this be an example of not-that-harmful appropriation, because it spreads the “criminality” of baggy pants out to include white youth as well (yay?), or is “not-that-harmful appropriation” just too much of a contradiction of terms? :p
No one objected to that (although I do wonder why we needed to know her gender in the first place – oh yes, that’s right, it’s so you could be appallingly sexist while trying to pretend that you definitely absolutely aren’t a sexist at all, nosireebob. Like when infants with chocolate smeared round their faces try to convince their parents that they’ve never even seen a cookie jar before).
People object to ‘women’ being referred to as ‘females’ when ‘women’ would suffice and they’re using ‘men’ as the opposite. Here’s a pro-tip, if you ever find yourself typing ‘females’, then you’re automatically wrong, since if you’re referring to a group that are all-female, it would be ‘female [X]s’.
Oh and to actually answer your question, ‘classmate’ would make you look like less of a pompous fuckweasel than ‘fellow female student’.
@Freemage
Fair enough. Back home the skating community was all about Alternative and Punk, and maybe a little Heavy Metal, so the two communities have always been separate in my mind
@Freemage/Shadow (etc.)
I don’t think you can entirely discount the convenience factor. Baggy trousers = easier to skate in = kids who want to dress like skaters wear baggy trousers. Rich and white doesn’t automatically mean ‘all style no substance’.
bagelsan: In some respects, it’s harmless enough–until it starts getting used as an example of how urban blacks refuse to fit in to mainstream white culture, and therefore it’s totes okay to discriminate against them in the job market.
Some cultural fusion is always going to happen, I know. But a lot of the times, when the language doesn’t translate well, things get dicey.
For instance, hiphop and rap lyrics are notorious for their misogyny. This is often ascribed to the black community. However, as I noted above, the driving market force behind the surge in hiphop and rap is the white suburban youth market. It’s kids in Naperville who are looking for videos where women get treated like sexy furniture. If you look at the stuff that’s mostly supported just in urban neighborhoods, and isn’t trying to ‘break out’ to appeal to the white market, it’s not perfect, but the ratio of misogynistic crap and gun-culture paeans to political and social protest songs shifts dramatically.
Oh, for an example of appropriation and how both appropriation and subsequent repudiation work to undermine the subculture, I recommend Natalie Reed’s excellent post from this past month: http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2013/03/12/homophobia-white-supremacism-and-disco-sucks/ (*Sigh* I’m so sorry she felt like FtB was no longer the place for her.)
arrgghh! blockquote fail!
I think I get the appropriation-repudiation cycle thing better now. I was focusing on the first step, which is a bit debatable depending on the context/one’s views on cultural exchange, but one really needs to take into account the repudiation half of the cycle to see the most major problems with it. That seems to be where you get the “…and therefore black people are bad” half of the appropriation.
” Then I’ll retract that claim and say “motivate” instead of “compel”.
But how much of a difference does it make if other parts of your brain are involved, too? The brain as physical system goes from one state to the next and what if the processes in your frontal cortex result in wrong decisions? ”
Shorter Jaro: boring, goal-shifting bonerwhiner troll who thinks everyone else is as stupid as he is.
The brain as physical system goes from one state to the next
Your brain isn’t a bit that’s either on or off. It has millions of “states” it can be in, billions and billions if you want to count every permutation of neuron activity. How much difference does it make? All the difference.
Bagelsan: Exactly–it’s the cycle, not the initial appropriation. Done properly, in fact, such appropriation can be done respectfully. But it takes thought, effort and time, which most appropriators don’t bother with.
It would be a real shame if people didn’t feel like they could spew sexist crap…
This… makes no sense. Why are we tossing in more random Greek letters? I mean, at least Alpha and Beta made semi-sense, because it was first letter of the alphabet, second, in terms for first in rank and second, and omega was last, for all those wahwah guys the evil bitchez won’t sleep with who are surely last in rank (ignoring the fact that none of this alpha/beta stuff is real). EVEN IN THE SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE THING THIS IS REAL, IT DOESN”T MAKE SENSE
You use female to describe animals. Female bee, male bee, female wolf, male wolf, yadda yadda. When you use female and man, you are dehumanizing the woman.
How would you refer to a man who was a student?
Um… so because people have been even more sexist,racist,ablist,homophobic, whatever, in the past, people still can’t be that now? That doesn’t make any sense.
*sigh* Preparing to pull apart some of Jaro’s shit sandwich of a post…
…Wait, apparently not wanting people to be sexist is silencing them? This superskeeves me, though I can’t put my finger on why, but it seems like you take people who actually get silenced about their experiences and act like not wanting to hear sexism is the same thing? I mean, I’m probably rambling here, but I just bwuh… I guess with people throwing victim blaming and death threats (oh god I hope I remembered that one wrong) at the Jane Doe in Steubenville is trying to shut her up, try to tell women/ girls not to speak about their rapes, and you think telling Judgybitch she’s a shitstain of humanity is silencing? You are so full of lack of perspective I wonder how you have room for anything else in your body.
WHY BLOCKQUOTE MONSTER WHY? WHAT ELSE MUST I SACRIFICE TO KEEP YOU AT BAY?
Misogynists, of course.