So we’ve been talking a lot about the MRA response to the Adria Richards firing over the past few days, but (like a lot of the regulars here, I suspect) I’ve had one lingering question in my mind: what does eminent MRA philosopher Cooter Bee think about all of this? Well I am pleased to report that Mr. Bee has finally weighed in on the subject in a comment over on The Spearhead.
Always a model of thoughtfulness and restraint, Mr. Bee suggests that the best way to deal with the problem of women in technology – rightfully a man’s place – is for men in tech to go on a giant man strike until civilization starts to crumble:
Tech makes female jobs possible. Feminism couldn’t manage without tech. Would it be possible to attack tech and bring it down?
Not talking attack as in military operation but perhaps key males within the industry could be recruited and persuaded not to produce. After all, does anybody really think that any of the current fruits of civilization come from the female mind? Agitate against HB1 visa’s to further weaken it. Eventually, government and other powder puff industries won’t able to replace their dilapidated equipment. Where will the make-work female jobs go when there are no computers? The police state? How effective can it be with pencil, paper and shoe leather alone?
Other Spearheaders have equally enlightened and enlightening thoughts on the matter. Richard attacks women for both getting jobs in technology and for (allegedly) preferring doctors and lawyers over tech geeks.
Women are deadly to hire. Women really have no place in tech. Harsh? Perhaps.
But imagine if all the man-hours (perhaps billions worth) that has gone into soothing (the ultimately un-soothable) grrrrls’ feelings rather than genuine productivity.
And for all the women who hate the sexist men in tech, what about the sexist discrimination by women against tech men vs. say lawyers or doctors?
I’m not quite sure how not liking sexist men in tech counts as sexist discrimination, but I have to admit that I am baffled by some of the more sophisticated forms of MRA logic.
Another commenter who goes by the name David F – and whom I should point out is NOT ME NO WHY DOES HE CALL HIMSELF THAT UGH UGH IT MAKES ME EMBARRASSED FOR ALL DAVIDS WHOSE LAST NAMES START WITH AN F WAIT WHAT WAS I TALKING ABOUT SORRY THIS SENTENCE HAS GOTTEN AWAY FROM ME. Anyway, David F Who is Not Me repeats and elaborates upon an argument first made by Daflory over on A Voice for Men, which makes me think that they are in fact the same person and that David F’s last name is Flory (not Futrelle I repeat NOT Futrelle):
No one ever told Adria Richards that she was at best only an tolerated guest in the world of tech, and she could either play by male rules and contribute, or get lost. Hopefully other feminists in tech will get a similar message.
This and the Anita Sarkeesian affair suggests that hatred for feminism runs very deep in the tech world, and that a great many men and boys are willing and able to protect their domain against hostile intruders. The white-knight tech articles have made themselves ridiculous from the flood of hostile comments they generate. I think it is only a matter of time before some tech sites throw feminism under the bus. It’s not as if they really need women for anything, and if tech writers come to accept that they won’t get sex by pandering to women, what else do they have to lose?
Opus – who I am pretty sure is not actually the penguin from Bloom County – wonders why useless women go to conferences in the first place, and comes up with this explanation:
I can only conclude that women attend conferences for the purpose of being outraged and to shame any unsuspecting male. Is it any wonder men seek to work in female-free environments if at all possible.
Former Man Boobz Troll of the Year NWOslave steps up with some observations that may bring back fond memories of his many contributions to the discourse here at Man Boobz:
Western women, at least in the social media circles, seem to be hell bent on proving women have the mental and emotional fortitude of a four year old girl. Adria Richards and the media backlash is clear proof that women are incapable of functioning more than an arms length from the safety of the nest.
Joeb, meanwhile, offers these cogent thoughts:
The 800 LBs feminist beast in the room is; This women (Adria Richards) is not there to conform to Company norms and a real life work scenario .
She wants to work on her own terms . Off course those terms are the void of all physical and mentally tiring duty’s like actual work .
Its like this , Iv seen Feminist tech write blogs about tech Jobs not because they where technicians , They write blogs because they failed out of the technician Jobs . ( there opinion is useless )
Women want the administration duty’s of the Job but , The power structure changes when you have well trained men doing the work .
You can’t have a women with a BA from POO dunk business college telling a male scientist from MTI how to do his JOB .
Its another feminist leach on the privet sector . Get to many of these leaches and it sucks the life from the Corp.
After reading all these very thoughtful comments from the Spearhead men — and I didn’t even include the openly racist ones or the ones that used the c-word — I’m not sure how anyone could doubt male superiority, in tech and in everything else.
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This post may contain some
I just noticed the attacking rodents in the painting are flying squirrels. (Did someone actually write a cheap horror novel with flying squirrels for monsters?) That painting is a wonderful metaphor for the MRA fantasies… almost as good as the killer bunny from Monty Python.
Everything I’ve read on this thread from people in the tech industry, those who’ve attended such conferences, says that:
1) forking = legit term, also euphemism for fucking, and very common as a smutty joke
2) dongle = legit term, also joke term for penis (similar to the Australian slang donger, actually)
3) these conferences have pretty strict rules about professional conduct, which would hardly have been unknown to these reps
4) the conference organisers told these guys off when it was reported
So yes, they were doing the wrong thing; they were making smutty jokes in the wrong setting and got reported AS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
One of them got fired because he has some sort of history of doing the wrong thing, or issues of some sort that his company didn’t like. The other one did not get fired.
So if those two could not grow up and save their stupid dick jokes for an appropriate time and place, then tough shit on them. They were in the wrong.
Kitteh, you are so patient. I just presumed he was a concern troll and was in desperate need of a lego piece.
joanimal – I’ve always used the term dysmenorrhea fairly broadly, but the definition is apparently pain that interferes with daily activities. I don’t know how they define “interferes with” though. To me it includes being in pain enough to take ibuprofen, feeling generallyl crap and having, say, leg cramps that slow me down, or potentially thinking “Stuff this, they can get along without me today, I’m heading to bed with a hot water bottle.” But that’s not even on the radar compared with what your friend goes through, so I’d say “severe dysmenorrhea” isn’t redundant at all. 🙁
LOL less patience than setting it out in words of one syllable so even the dumbest of trolls can’t say nobody’s answered them. Plus I haven’t read his other screeds on the subject.
And I totally second the lego idea. Overdue, I’d say.
Why must I be a troll because I’m asking for the opinions of people who have a different perspective from me? Not everyone in the world who has a different opinion from you is a troll, especially not those who are trying to learn what your opinion is. Food for thought, maybe stop being a pretentious asshole.
If you want to talk about being a pretentious asshole, take a look in the mirror. Do you really expect us to be coddling you for what-about-teh-menz questions when you trot out this giant Perspective Fail? It doesn’t fucking MATTER what those two idiots did, the point is that this woman’s life has been threatened and her company blackmailed into sacking her because she dared speak out at all.
While I was being an asshole, I was not being pretentious. You on the other hand are a lazy douchebag and could have taken the time to read the relevant threads and found out the question has been asked and answered multiple times. Even ignoring your laziness, you are still a concern troll since you are pretending to be even handed on an issue that does not have two equal sides, One side is a mob fomenting hate and encouraging violence and the other side is a single women saying stop. You want to be angry? Be angry at the former.
On the more intersesting topic of the furries in the painting – I thought they looked like mutant sugar gliders, about as unlikely a vicious flying beastie as one could imagine!
sugar glider in mid-air
sugar glider and babies
(Warning: extreme cuteness!)
I’m not angry or being even handed, I said they’re misogynists using this as an outlet to pour their hatred of women into and they probably don’t even give a shit about the two guys involved. How the hell is that being evenhanded? What do I actually have to say to communicate to you that I think they’re in the wrong? Call all men evil? Say anyone born with a penis should be tortured? I don’t understand what else you want me to say. I already said they’re misogynist assholes who heavily overreacted, what do you want from me? And now I’m a douchebag because I was curious on how women felt about those kinds of jokes, cool.
Kittehs I’m not asking to be coddled, I’m just asking to be treated like a human being. I’m not here justifying anyone’s actions I just wanted to get the opinions of women on those kinds of jokes.
Yes, the angry sugar gliders are about as threatening as the four kitties of the apocolypse. (I haven’t actually seen that visual joke, but someone somewhere has probably done it.)
And people are trying to tell you, with varying levels of politenesss, that these jokes have been discussed endlessly, both here and elsewhere, by people of every gender, whilst the stuff that really should be discussed – the horrifying misogyny faced by a WoC spraking out against white tech-y men – is virtually ignored.
So, no, pretty much noone wants to repsond to your query here, thank you. we have more important things to talk about (in no particular order, shoes, kitties, misogyny).
Seriously, raegus, do you think we’re just rallying around Richards because The Feminist Overlords told us to or something? I imagine most women have been made to feel uncomfortable or alienated (at best) or even directly threatened (at worst) by “innocent” sexual jokes. It’s been discussed over and over again, here and elsewhere.
Sexual jokes are fine if you know your audience and are in a private. They’re okay at a bar or restaurant or party if you know your audience and you keep it down a bit. They’re really not appropriate ever in a professional situation where you’re likely to be overheard by a bunch of colleagues that you barely or don’t know. Is that really so hard? It’s not like there aren’t plenty of other subjects to joke about.
BTW, going back to the guy who was all ‘women take more sick days, men come in with their limbs falling off’–here’s an analysis of two differing studies.
Warning–it’s the daily mail.
They bury the lead at the end. Yes, women take more sick days. And they come in sicker than men. But because women are still expected to carry the bulk of the child-rearing they’re taking sick days when their kids are sick too.
I.e., sexist double standards. Benefitting men. Again.
And, for seriously, people are still going ‘dongle and fork jokes just aren’t a big deal’? Yeah, they’re not considered a big deal. This is the problem. Thanks for illustrating it so very clearly.
@Buttman: No, the jokes were sophomoric. They are simply the repetition of tech words that have a sexual double entendre. They’re not clever or witty and there’s only one level to those jokes, which is “uh uh sex is funny”. The joke about ‘big dongles’ is nonsensical in tech terms (forking a process has nothing to do with dongles) and only ties into the ‘fork’ joke because of the sexual innuendo. Normal human beings, even those of the male variety, grow out of these jokes by the time they leave high school…. college for the slower witted.
Now, let’s say I’m an ass making sexual jokes at a tech conference. At least I would try something witty. Like the following, which I’m sure someone could do better but I’m just throwing it out there as a first draft.
“Man, look at her, I’d sure love to fork her process.”
“Just as long as you can get her to kill -9 the forked process before it completes.”
See, and it’s even crasser than the original.
FACTS: http://www.livescience.com/2047-women-expected-work-men.html
How are women suppose to be get equal pay when they don’t do equal work? That’s what feminists want. They want special privileges for women to earn the same amount of money while working ten days out of a month. A job doesn’t care if you have cramps or an STI. You are expected to work even when you have a little discomfort. MEN would be sacked if they missed two weeks out of every month for cramps.
Besides, it doesn’t really matter anyway whether people think the jokes were funny or inappropriate. If people really think their personal humor is more important than including other people then that’s maybe something we should put our focus on…and not after someone’s receiving threats.
Also the difference between sex jokes in general and those directed at particular people is obvious. I think the first kind doesn’t necessarily have to be toned down in non-professional surroundings, but why exactly is it even important?
I feel like a lot of people are just asking for permission, like they are afraid to get into the same situation.
HAHAHAHA, suuuuuuure you do. You can get those opinions elsewhere, oh disingenuous one.
Faced with the choice between being decent people, or believing that there’s a level of male beauty which turns sexism into panty-melting rays, folks like Buttman choose the latter. I have no idea how these folks can live with so much rage and self-hatred without popping like high-pressure water balloons.
Butthead,
Bannister answered that like, three posts earlier.
Also, how do you fit so many numbers up your ass you just can keep pulling them out?
Buttman has passed from the level of COMPLETELY wrong to only MOSTLY wrong, actually.
Congratulations! Any minute now you’ll be a feminist!
Yep, it’s true, the pay gap diminishes when you factor in women looking for more flexible jobs/working less hours.
Diminishes by 20-30% of the pay gap, depending on the study.
Whooooooops!
So, the reasoning behind that is sexist, it doesn’t do away with the entire pay gap–Echidne of the Snakes had a GREAT series on all the confounding factors, and how if you take them all into account YOU STILL HAVE A PAY GAP (and how all those confounding factors range from a little sexist to a lot sexist).
So, yeah, still wrong.
Buttman: does being so wrong all the time hurt? It should.
I wish I only worked ten days out of the month, but alas, that is most definitely NOT the case.
“Faced with the choice between being decent people, or believing that there’s a level of male beauty which turns sexism into panty-melting rays, folks like Buttman choose the latter.”
I don’t choose to believe anything. I accept reality – something feminists are incapable of doing. If it’s a Don Draper type then it’s a-okay sexism.
That the jokes were not funny may be a subtle point but I think it’s more important than it seems, because of what it shows. In my experience, the tech/hacker crowd values showing your wit. Jokes have social functions, one of which is demonstrating wit. Another might be to undercut authority figures. Another might be to reinforce in-group behavior by targetting/hurting out-groups. Now, in this case there was no authority figure being deflated by the joke, and the joke itself had little to no wit. So, even though it’s a small sample of one, it shows that the reinforcement of in-group toxic masculinity was valuable enough to those men that they were willing to do it by saying terrible, terrible jokes that would demonstrate poor wits to anyone around them.