The regulars at PUAhate.com – we’ve met them before — are a strange and bitter bunch. Most seem to be self-loathing so-called “incels” who blame their lack of romantic and sexual success on their average or below-average looks. Rejecting the basic premise of the pickup artist crowd – that average guys can transform themselves into suave lotharios by mastering manipulative pickup formulas – the PUAhate regulars tend to be true believers in what they somewhat pretentiously call “looks theory,” the odd and obviously untrue notion that women only date men with “male model” looks.
As one PUAhater put it recently:
PUA makes you think that all your problems are because of your personality/behaviour – i.e. things you can control. So when you keep failing, it means that YOU are fucking up and doing things wrong
the reality is that many of us just lost the genetic lottery. we are ugly, the wrong race, the wrong height etc, and that fucked us up. there is NOTHING we can do about it
So, naturally, the PUAhaters spend a lot of their time jealous of tall, good-looking men for their supposed monopoly on the women of the world — whom they also hate.
But the strange thing is that the PUAhaters pretty much hate everyone else as well. They get angry when guys they consider ugly score “hot chicks.” They get angry when guys who are good-looking but not male models get attention from “really hot girls.” And so on, and so on, and so on.
Indeed, many of the regulars seem to walk around in a perpetual state of rage, angry at each and every man who’s managed to pair up with a woman, not to mention the women as well.
One regular recently described his “day from hell” to his comrades:
To start the day I saw a couple where it was an average White guy with an OBESE Asian girl. They were walking around acting like they were trying to prove shit. LMAO. I wanted to kick the guy in the fucking nuts for dating that landwhale. If you’re going to use the racial advantage, at least date a girl who is under 300lbs. Later I go to the gym and see the same tall guys I usually do. Even if I had a good face, how the fuck do you compete with guys who are fucking 6’4”?
Then at the gym there’s this good looking White guy there talking to this Asian dude about how Asian girls are easy and how they approach him. To make things worse after that these fucking frat douchebags come in with their girlfriends to show off . Then to cap off the day a girl I used to know from freshman year walks right past me without even saying anything. I used to fucking live next door to this bitch and now she doesn’t even say anything and acts like a pretentious cunt. She’s an Indian girl dating a White dude lmao. Days like today make you wonder why you even still try in the first place.
Of course, as I’ve mentioned before, most of those posting on PUAhate don’t actually seem to be ugly by anyone’s standards but their own, at least judging from the pictures of themselves they sometimes post to the site, which reveal them to be mostly average-looking guys, with some of the regulars even quite conventionally handsome.
But evidently they would rather believe that they have “lost the genetic lottery” rather than face a more obvious explanation for why the girls don’t like them: because they’re shallow, self-obsessed assholes who hate themselves and hate women and radiate their bitterness from every pore. (And some are even creepier than this, like this pedophile – sorry, ephebophile – who’s angry at me personally because unlike him I don’t chase after 15-year-olds. Link NSFW.)
The PUAhaters often talk about getting surgeries to “correct” their supposed genetic flaws. They would do far better to spend that money on therapy.
@ArgentiAertheri
The answer to your question about the Statue of Liberty is that fact that Moffatt is suffering from George Lucas Syndrome.
ie. he’s very good and talented as long as he has a good editor and someone one level up from him who can put their foot down if need be. As soon as they are given free reign to run with any idea they fancy with no proper editing and control they start churning out crap that could have been good but wasn’t nipped into shape well enough.
I’m starting to cringe whenever someone mentions atheists on the internet.
It’s like, oh god, what did some jackass say now.
I am not happy about this reaction.
@Argenti: well, th eanswer is OBVIOUS, isn’t it?
The whole ‘made from stone’ thing is an oversimplification of an exceedingly complex process whereby the entity infects an inanimate object. The math and timey-wimey stuff involved would make a human head explode, so we can’t go into that. Although it’s easier to infect things that are simply one singular molecular structure it can, if it works very hard, inflict other inanimate objects.
/George Lucas logic set
Whew! I don’t know anything about the paradox so I can’t b.s. my way through that one. But I have an immense reserve of b.s. that I will pull out to make my favorite shows make sense to me.
We really want to get this thing to 2,000 comments? We willing to accept the consequences?
Yeah? Okay, then…
It’s clearly OCTOPODES!! you uncultured Visigoths!!
I am someone who uses chiropractic a lot after a bad back injury (yay pulling every muscle connected between pelvis and spine! Yay using a walker in my twenties!) and I’ve had both good and bad experiences. The bad one essentially paid no attention to my back after the first meeting. In a way that made sense, since the crisis was the lower back muscles being serious;ly overstressed, but it meant once I had those mostly working again the issues which contributed to the injury continued to be in play and I had little to no awareness of them.
When I reinjured it, inevitably, later I was in a different city and went to a new chiropractor – and she showed me what chiropractic could do in terms of making me aware of how I hold my back and where the tension spots were. However, chiropractors are really more acute treaters than chronic; they straighten the back, but whatever things in your life are causing your back to get bent or tight remain in play, and addressing that is not something I think any chiropractor does. I’ve ended up using fist or double fist sized balls to systematically stretch out my muscles, and also increased awareness to try to change my posture and build my muscle strength, as part of a long term back treatment and it’s been entirely self-taught, with some informational help from my mom.
Honestly, I wish it was easier to get support in doing this kind of thing.
@Falconer: And IRregardless means the opposite of what is intended! QED!!!
…
On a more important note, they’re remaking Pete’s Dragon.
My childhood just died.
But: a Veronica Mars movie.
So. The universe both hates and loves me. Discuss.
Okay, so in the interest in keeping the thread going….
I have a masochistic streak that forces me to crawl into the mindset of individuals I find reprehensible–and this thread has led to me thinking about ‘incel’.
Now, according to Incel Theory:
1: Menz must ask for sexing.
2: Womenz gets to decide if sexing will happen.
3: For menz (and menz only), sexing is important. Menz wants the sexings at all times.
4: People who want sexing don’t care who the sexing is with, though if offered an array of choices, will automatically choose the best-looking one.
5: All people can be judged and ranked on a single-axis, 10-point scale that is objective for all persons and instantly discernable because personality plays no role in it. Thus, when someone has a choice in sexing partners, they will invariably pick the sexing-willing person with the highest score.
6: Someone is Incel if they wants the sexings and no one is providing the sexings.
Now, from these premises:
A: Straight men can be Incel if they are sufficiently unattractive to women to be granted sexing on demand.
B: Straight/bi women cannot be Incel, because as soon as a straight woman wants sexing, a man in the area will provide it, because all straight men want sexing at all times.
C: Gay/bi men who want sexing will automatically have sexing available from other gay men.
So the question becomes, “Can lezzy lesbians who seek only to lez-sexings be Incel under this system?”
After all, womenz normally can get sexing as soon as they want because menz are compelled by their Darwinian bonerz to have as much sexing as possible. But lesbians don’t want menz Darwinian bonerz; they want other womenz, who are used to acting as the ones who control the sexings, and therefore might turn down the first womenz and thus cause Incel status to befall the first womenz. Conundrum!
Yay for lumps not being serious! yay! Yay! Yay!
I am actually descended from the “white” people flown in to oppress other “white” people, which always makes me snicker darkly when people talk about “white” because that term covers up a whole lot of bigotry going back a thousand years. I’m Scots-Welsh and Scots-Irish, and the hyphen means “Scottish, but ruling the Welsh or the Irish on behalf of the English because the Welsh and the Irish are savages.” *snorts* “White” is such a line of bull crap.
THIS IS WHERE I LEFT OFF BEFORE I WENT TO WORK! I WANT TO HELP BUT I CAN’T I’M LEAVING THIS WINDOW OPEN!
(If you have any other pictures of cute guys kissing, yay?)
@freemage: Ah, but you forget. Women Don’t Really Care About Sex. That’s why they’re all automatically Bi, because it’s all the same to them.
Didn’t you get the FULL toolkit of Offensive Stereotypes?
Octopī!!
Howard — yeah, yeah, ok, but made of stone has been important. Things like “that door is dead locked, nothing can get through” *cracking noises* “now you’re getting it” — they’re solid stone, and presented as indestructible. Copper is not.
As for the paradox…
Jura gur natryf gnxr znaunggna gurl’er yhevat crbcyr vagb n ubgry, genccvat gurz, mnccvat gurz gb gur cnfg, naq srrqvat bss gur yvsr gurl arire yvirq (vg’f jung natryf qb). Gurl genc Ebl, naq abg Nzl, fb gurl frg bhg gb phg bss gur natryf sbbq ol fnivat uvz…ol whzcvat bss gur ohvyqvat naq qlvat orsber ur pna or mnccrq. Nzl’f evtug, orpnhfr gurl xvyyrq gur natryf, gurl jrer arire genccrq, naq guhf arire whzcrq, perngvat n cnenqbk. Rkprcg na natry trgf Ebel va gur cerfrag naq fraqf uvz onpx gb gur ubgry. Va gur “bztf Nzl naq Ebel ner qrnq!” gurl arire qvfphff jurgure gung zrnaf znaunggna vf shyy bs jrrcvat natryf.
And that would be Very, Very, Bad.
Thank you for summing my Moffat issues into something non-ranting.
My wife once got a ‘free consultation’ offer from a chiropractor. We opted to go to see what it entailed.
First, they take an x-ray of everyone involved to look at the neck or back. Then the chiro comes out and does this little presentation about how pinching the spinal cord will cause signals from the brain to get messed up, causing health problems in other parts of the body. No mention of specific illnesses, but the implication is clearly “cancer, heart disease, and so on”.
Then they take each person (or in our case, couple) into a back room for the hard-sell. First they tell you a number, saying they want you to come in for two sessions a week at $X a session. When you choke on that number (and very few people would not choke on that number, especially when it’s discovered that even generous medical plans don’t pay for it), they start offering deals–offering to cut the charges some (but insisting they needed the full number of sessions because if we didn’t do the fully number of sessions, it wouldn’t have any effect). At this point, I was having flashbacks to the time we almost bought into a timeshare, and we made our demurral and got the hell out of there.
@freemage – you forgot one:
7. Anyone denying any of the above denies Science!
(Science must always be capitalized)
Remaking Pete’s Dragon? This looks like a job for Kickstopper.
http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2011/12/dork-tower-thursday-18/
Howard: Ah, I see it now–it was buried under some leftover bullshit about how it’s up to cis people to decide who is ‘really’ trans (and thus, eligible for treatments, etc). Haven’t touched that one since I was in high school.
Oh man, this is epic thread of doooooom!
Re: main post. Part of me feels a little bit bad for these guys; they are so utterly miserable. There is literally nothing that a woman could do to them that is even a quarter as bad as what they do to themselves. Then again, they are jerks, so wevs.
@historophilia- I’m pleasantly surprised to hear that the show is actually good. When I saw an ad for it in the movies, I thought it was big budget kill everything “history” but I would watch it for the Old English.
@Howard and Argenti Aetheri- that episode was full of ALL THE PLOTHOLES AND I DON’T THINK I LIKE THE NEW COMPANION VERY MUCH. /feelings.
Seriously though, she seems like a “Strong Female Character” to me
http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311
Obviously the solution is that they can turn non-stone substances into stone.
It’s not magic, it’s science. SCIENCE of alchemy…
OMG, Ed? Al?
….
Paradox! Lo, I did not follow the Rot13 stuff at all.
So obviously it’s a split timeline with a Moebius loop. Very dangerous. The only solution is a full paring. You’ll need somebody with lots of midichlorians for that.
No, this one may be beyond my powers of b.s.
Argenti mentioned something: women can’t rape, they aren’t sexual (3 levels of fucked in that). I’ve been thinking about the Ohio case and rewatched part of that horrible video, that stupid kid that really needs to be hit with a twobyfour. One cold, numb thought: MRA’s think women need to learn how to take a punch to be equal, I think men need to learn how to be raped. This is unsettling. My mind immediately goes out to the men in prison who get raped. No, I don’t want that. So, what, then I only want men outside of prison to get raped?! Men rape more often, as far as is known (correct?). This indicates, to me, a problem with men. The MRA’s don’t want to face this. It’s always someone else’s fault. I’m like the MRA’s. My thoughts are cold, nasty. They want a war? Oh, they’ll get one and they won’t like it. And this idea of mine about men getting raped? It’s not about sex. It’s about humiliation, like that girl suffered. I got into a bit of an argument with my son about that case. He kept saying the girl was wrong, he kept blaming her. I didn’t know how to explain to him correctly that he was victim-blaming. That it didn’t matter that she got drunk. That those boys made the decision on their own to do what they did. She should have been put to bed, not dragged from place to place. It’s not just their actions, it’s what’s behind it. Oh, my kind either needs to learn or to just die out.
Oh, god, and ear infections! Deafness!!!
Yeah, that’s the woo, right there.
I don’t think you can make that kind of comparison. I don’t think you can take a lonely random dude and place him beside a random woman who’s in a relationship/gets dates from time to time, compare them privilege-wise and then conclude that the guy’s male privilege outweighs the woman’s, uh, love privilege. Lonely people do suffer worse health than people in relationships, and maybe if you started investigating, say, the professional life of people who are just single year after year after year you’d find out that they’re paid less and get less respect because people assume there’s gotta be something wrong with them? Maybe someone’s already done that research? I have no idea, and for that very reason I’m not gonna talk AS IF I knew that male privilege outweighs, well, love privilege.
I can totally just grant that a) there are most likely people (men AND women) in the world who are loveless and sexless through no fault of their own, because the world isn’t just b) that’s gotta suck big time c) I can’t KNOW whether my life is overall more or less privileged than the life of some random and horribly lonely dude, so better not speculate.
I can still laugh at men who are hate-filled misogynists but still convinced that they’re lonely solely due to their (often completely normal) looks and the shallowness of EVIL WOMENZ who ONLY dates two metres tall male models.
@howardbann1ster
Mine too. *sniff*
Going back to the different exercises: anything with visualizations or of energy “moving” don’t work because I imagine it feels like being touched and being touched fucking HURTS. So, I clench in response and the pain gets worse and I have to stop. (That was a totally awesome physical therapy appointment btw, the woman I was seeing already didn’t really like me because I refused to try meditation for the billionth time, and she wasn’t too happy with me almost bursting into tears. I think she thought I was just doing it wrong and being difficult. Luckily, I got assigned to someone who actually listened after that.)
@ freemage- No, you don’t understand, no women care about sex, so no woman is EVER incel! And lesbianz never have the sexing, because of lesbian bed death (unless it’s for a dude to watch because BONERS)
Regarding privilege in general… It’s really something you can only know about intellectually, but not really NOTICE, until you switch, uh, privilege group. I’ve always been white, female, mentally ill, skinny and so on, but I’m from a working class background and used to work as a… nursing assistant? (translated the name of the profession from the top of my head), and now I’m a university professor. That makes LOTS of difference. I tried to remember last time anyone tried to mansplain anything to me… and oh, it was back when I worked as a nursing assistant! Nowadays men are more like “What do you think about this idea of mine, you clearly intelligent person?”. I could bore you with more examples, but I’m just gonna say this: Going from nursing assistant to university professor meant having a SHITLOAD of privilege dumped right at me. Like, ten tons at least.
@Dvärghundspossen- I think you’re conflating a bunch of things. Being single is not necessarily being loveless. And while certainly some people go through life both friendless and unpartnered through no fault of their own, and that those people’s lives are made harder because of that lack, I think there’s an added level of misery and bitterness that stems solely from certain people’s evil evil temperaments. Those people would probably be equally miserable surrounded by friends and partnered, because the misery comes from within themselves.
I’m not sure that I buy the idea of “love privilege” either. Because what is the recourse for that? If someone is unpartnered because they are discriminated against in terms of their romantic prospects (people with disabilities, fat people, etc.) then the underlying cause in our culture needs to change. If that person has social problems that make it harder to connect to others, they should be treated with compassion and given resources to help them connect better. But you cannot force people to build relationships with each other to overcome “love privilege,” because that’s not how relationships work.
I’m just dumping this here to add to the thread count:
r/mensrights has been obsessed over this story for a few days. CONTENT WARNING for threats, doxxing/stalking, and a (blurred but still disturbing) image of violence against a woman who had the temerity to speak out on Twitter about male behavior at a tech conference.
I think the point is a little different than that; that society treats single people as if there’s something wrong with them.
There is a gendered piece to it too–see ‘spinster’ vs. ‘bachelor’.
It’s certainly not anything like the privileges involved in any of the other axes you mentioned. But I think it is a real phenenom.