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How to Hate and Envy Every Single Person in the World, PUAhate edition

Some guys get all the chicks
Some guys get all the chicks

The regulars at PUAhate.com – we’ve met them before — are a strange and bitter bunch. Most seem to be self-loathing so-called “incels” who blame their lack of romantic and sexual success on their average or below-average looks. Rejecting the basic premise of the pickup artist crowd – that average guys can transform themselves into suave lotharios by mastering manipulative pickup formulas – the PUAhate regulars tend to be true believers in what they somewhat pretentiously call “looks theory,” the odd and obviously untrue notion that women only date men with “male model” looks.

As one PUAhater put it recently:

PUA makes you think that all your problems are because of your personality/behaviour – i.e. things you can control. So when you keep failing, it means that YOU are fucking up and doing things wrong

the reality is that many of us just lost the genetic lottery. we are ugly, the wrong race, the wrong height etc, and that fucked us up. there is NOTHING we can do about it

So, naturally, the PUAhaters spend a lot of their time jealous of tall, good-looking men for their supposed monopoly on the women of the world — whom they also hate.

But the strange thing is that the PUAhaters pretty much hate everyone else as well. They get angry when guys they consider ugly score “hot chicks.” They get angry when guys who are good-looking but not male models get attention from “really hot girls.” And so on, and so on, and so on.

Indeed, many of the regulars seem to walk around in a perpetual state of rage, angry at each and every man who’s managed to pair up with a woman, not to mention the women as well.

One regular recently described his “day from hell” to his comrades:

To start the day I saw a couple where it was an average White guy with an OBESE Asian girl. They were walking around acting like they were trying to prove shit. LMAO. I wanted to kick the guy in the fucking nuts for dating that landwhale. If you’re going to use the racial advantage, at least date a girl who is under 300lbs. Later I go to the gym and see the same tall guys I usually do. Even if I had a good face, how the fuck do you compete with guys who are fucking 6’4”?

Then at the gym there’s this good looking White guy there talking to this Asian dude about how Asian girls are easy and how they approach him. To make things worse after that these fucking frat douchebags come in with their girlfriends to show off . Then to cap off the day a girl I used to know from freshman year walks right past me without even saying anything. I used to fucking live next door to this bitch and now she doesn’t even say anything and acts like a pretentious cunt. She’s an Indian girl dating a White dude lmao. Days like today make you wonder why you even still try in the first place.

Of course, as I’ve mentioned before, most of those posting on PUAhate don’t actually seem to be ugly by anyone’s standards but their own, at least judging from the pictures of themselves they sometimes post to the site, which reveal them to be mostly average-looking guys, with some of the regulars even quite conventionally handsome.

But evidently they would rather believe that they have “lost the genetic lottery” rather than face a more obvious explanation for why the girls don’t like them: because they’re shallow, self-obsessed assholes who hate themselves and hate women and radiate their bitterness from every pore. (And some are even creepier than this, like this pedophile – sorry, ephebophile – who’s angry at me personally because unlike him I don’t chase after 15-year-olds. Link NSFW.)

The PUAhaters often talk about getting surgeries to “correct” their supposed genetic flaws. They would do far better to spend that money on therapy.

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cloudiah
7 years ago

My mum’s a librarian and the most she seems to get up to is receiving a newsletter with an awful joke in it every Friday.

The operative word here is seems. 😉

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Definitely. Victorian ones, too. If I’d known librarianship was like this, I might have persisted with the course back in the day!

Baroncognito
7 years ago

All I know of librarians, I learned from the SLWSMF. http://library-mofo.livejournal.com/

GT_GiantTurtle
GT_GiantTurtle
7 years ago

As an occasional lurker, watching a group of people I mostly agree with, address my personal situation as if I am a cultish delusional weirdo who had it coming is… quite odd.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

What situation is that?

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@ ranter

He actually argued with me later that I couldn’t possibly dislike him based on his personality because all women only care about looks. Wut?

…bwuh. Guys who claim all women are X make me want to imprint the wall with my head.

Though intead of beauty, he seemed to think that a giant penis should make his dating life much easier than it was (I am completely serious.)

so, I don’t understand the giant penis thing. I mean, I don’t thing many people I’ve heard talk about it want it in a date, it seems to be more concern to the person with the penis. Anyway, just confuses me. But it’s also so strange that they think their potential dates are staring at their pants so much too. Idk I’m rambling, just confused.

Well, of course. We’ll need something to use as a model when we sculpt the figures for the Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel in our theme park.

…this is perfect XD

@GT_GiantTurtle

I’m confused. Are you ‘incel’? That’s what I was assuming from the comment.

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

I’m blown away by some men I run into. Many are perfectly nice, but every once in awhile….

Like the guy who goes on and on about how I friendzoned him because I’m shallow and apparently easy (because I made out with one of his friends). However, he and I were not friends. At the time he made a move I had known him for a few hours while at the corn maze with my friends. I’ll be honest the fact that he is nearly a foot shorter than me was a factor, but I have dated shorter men than myself (like his friend who I have a good 4 inches on).

The thing is this guy goes on and on about how girls won’t date him, but I know three women who have made their interest known. He however doesn’t think their “his type” and doesn’t want to date them. BTW he doesn’t like them because they are a little overweight….. However, he doesn’t offer me the same courtesy to reject him. He once called me while masturbating to tell me he was thinking of me. And yet he thinks he is a nice guy…….

/end slightly off topic rant

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

@Marie
I think a large penis would intimidate me.
And my friend broke up with one of her BFs because it was just too large.

Baroncognito
7 years ago

He once called me while masturbating to tell me he was thinking of me.

What the hell? Unless it was something the woman I was dating had explicitly asked me to do so as some sort of foreplay, I wouldn’t even do this to someone I was dating and had intercourse with on a regular basis.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

melody – ewww!

Yeah, the whole “big penis” thing – we had that conversation not long ago. YMMV but mostly the comments were along the lines of “no thanks!”

Giant turtle – are you saying you’re dateless/lonely and think that’s what we’re mocking? If you read here and mostly agree with us, I’m guessing you’re not a PUA type or MRA or whatever, so I’m quite lost as to why you’d think we’re mocking your situation.

PUA “gurus” are snake oil merchants and too many of them are wannabe rapists, or actual rapists. They’re out to abuse women AND the men they sucker into their scam. These PUAhate clowns are just out-and-out misogynists who also hate any guy who happens to have a partner. They’re what we’re talking about, not the entire category of people who would like a partner but don’t have one. Which describes you, if either?

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

@Baroncognito
I think it was a “You can’t stop me from masturbating to you even if you aren’t interested in me” jab.
He is very bitter about it.

Baroncognito
7 years ago

Other options: He gets turned on by audible disgust.

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

@Baroncognito
That…..is not an idea I wanted to introduce to my brain.

Falconer
7 years ago

Oh, god.

I knew a guy in college once who took it into his head that in order to get right with Christ he had to apologize to everyone he had wronged.

Apparently this involved revealing to women that he had roughed up the suspect while fantasizing about them, and asking them to forgive him.

Dude … I’m pretty sure you can just apologize to God for lusting in your heart and it’ll be all right.

But what do I know? I don’t read Left Behind for fun.

Baroncognito
7 years ago

Very sorry, not intended. If we spirits have offended. think but this and all is mended: Kittens are fun.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

“roughed up the suspect”

Falconer, you owe me a cup of tea.

Falconer
7 years ago

Unfortunately, like most of my favorite expressions, it’s not mine. I can’t remember where I got it from, except off the Internets.

I shall give you my espresso also, because Christ commands me to be a passive-aggressive dick.

GT_GiantTurtle
GT_GiantTurtle
7 years ago

Yes, I’m “involuntarily celibate”. And to satisfy the curiosity some of you displayed, sure, sex would be nice; and a relationship would be nice too. It’s not an either/or thing.

And it’s not so much mockery, but the sense of being picked apart like a faulty laboratory rat. The vibe some posters give is basically “Oh my; how does this even happen to people?!”.

I am familiar with PUA, MRA, MGTOW philosophies and how destructive they are. However, I’m also aware feeling like or being a social pariah, can lead to less than commendable thoughts. Posting those thoughts online and use them to excuse the reality those guys created in their own heads, is definitely a downwards step. But, partially, I have to understand them.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I assumed that the race comment was referring to the fact that American society frames Asian men as asexual, which is true and really does effect people’s dating prospects. But these are white guys whining that Asian women won’t date them? LOL. Cry harder, racist assholes.

Also, I’m curious as to why I dumped my ridiculously tall ex according to PUAhate theories? I mean, he was nearly 6ft5, doesn’t that mean he wins all the vaginas by default? Actually we broke up mostly because we were both young and stupid, teenage drama and so on, but honestly, a guy that tall? It’s kind of inconvenient if you’re my height. He was super cute, but if we’d stayed together I’d probably have back problems by now from how much time I spent with my neck at an odd angle just from talking to him.

@ Nobinayamu

Yeah, I assumed that same, that maybe they were just living in the library at college and just hadn’t noticed the couples all around them, but apparently they have noticed, and pretty much every couple in the world enrages them. That can’t be a fun way to live.

Falconer
7 years ago

I don’t know who I’ve been listening to, but apparently it’s a good thing I’ve been listening to them, because I never heard the thing about Asian men being asexual until I hung out here.

African-American men being oversexed, yes, but not Asian men being asexual.

It just passed me by.

Baroncognito
7 years ago

It’s not “How does someone not have sex” that people are wondering about. I, for one, haven’t had a serious relationship in the past four years and I don’t get physically involved with people unless I’m in a serious relationship. I know exactly how people are involuntarily celibate.

The vibe I’m getting from this discussion is more of a “how do these people get so vitrolic about things and blame their lack of dating on others?”

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
7 years ago

As an occasional lurker, watching a group of people I mostly agree with, address my personal situation as if I am a cultish delusional weirdo who had it coming is… quite odd.

Sooo, your personal situation is that you can’t get laid therefore you go on the internet and complain about how bitches won’t fuck you and this is why you hate everyone?

And you mostly agree with us?

Newsflash: not everyone who has trouble with relationships and sex is “incel”. But wait, there’s more! Secondary newsflash: most people have dry spells at some point in their lives. I at one point went over 2 and a half years without so much as a prospect for a date.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
7 years ago

The vibe some posters give is basically “Oh my; how does this even happen to people?!”.

We’re not picking apart how it is that people manage to go a long time without having sex. We’re discussing what makes them then go on to use that as an excuse to blame women for all their woes. And then the irony that their hatred of women makes it even less likely that they will get to have sex.

We are human beings, we know what it is like to not have something you really really want. We know what it’s like to be lonely. But our sympathy for folks who aren’t getting the intimacy they desire ends once folks start acting like total assholes about it.

GT_GiantTurtle
GT_GiantTurtle
7 years ago

Being a woman and not lesbian or bi, it would be weird of me to go on the internet and complain how bitches won’t fuck me. And, no, I don’t recall ever writing anything about hating everyone, outside of playful sarcasm. Perhaps back in my teens, in dirty scribbled notes?…

And 2 and a half all years? Damn, that must suck. But try decade instead.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I don’t know what CBT means to you, but in this context with what it means to me, it’s hilarious.

Let’s just say that when it comes to the whining incel crowd, if their insurance doesn’t cover what *I* understand CBT as an acronym to mean, they just need to whine around me enough to annoy me and I’ll give them some of that for free.

Smooches! Rather you than me, though – I’m not touching that kind of simmering pressure cooker of rage. Who knows when they might explode?

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

I feel like I’m not really getting Giant Turtle. I mean, I’m a virgin (I refuse to use incel because while I’d like a relationship and sex, it’s just a bad term, imo. Also, I’ve been focusing more on trying to get my life back on track than getting dates, so I’m not looking that hard.) Anyway, I wasn’t getting the vibe that everyone was going ‘how does this even happen to people?’. Just that it’s foolish to blame women on your failures to date. :/ anyway. Just rambly today, so this may not have made sense.

ps, deniseeliza, I love your kitty avatar 😀

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Giant Turtle – as I said, we’re not mocking people who’ve never had dates/relationships/sex. I don’t know how much you’ve read, but I have never dated, never had anything to do with an earthly human being. I have never been mocked here. Nor has anyone who’s hoping to have a relationship but hasn’t yet, (several of our regulars are in that situation), nor anyone who’s had a dry spell, nor anyone who doesn’t WANT to be in a relationship, nor anyone who has real stumbling blocks, like actual conditions that make just ordinary socialising very difficult. We mock misogyny, and that’s what’s in full flight with the “incel” mob like governmentgetgirlfriends, or these PUAhate creeps.

Seriously: lose the “incel” thinking. It isn’t real. Celibacy is about marriage, not whether one’s having sex or not. It’s also a flaming lie, because half the “incels” we’ve seen have had sex, but happen to be in a dry spell. Hello, that’s not being forcibly prevented from hooking up! These guys are what I call bonerwhiners, expecting their ideal women to be available to them the instant they click their fingers, and making every possible excuse about why THEY can’t possibly be expected to make an effort . Oh, the women are too picky. Oh, the women are too ugly. Oh, the men themselves are too ugly. Oh, the handsome guys have all the women (even the UGLY ones the PUAhaters consider subhuman). Oh, oh, oh.

Do you really want to identify with such a pack of self-deluding misogynists? Because that’s what they are: they’re acting like entitled brats who think they’ve the weight of the world on their shoulders. They radiate hate for everyone else and wonder why nobody’s interested in them.

Dating is an effort for most people, from all I’ve heard, and why shouldn’t it be? We all have some fear of rejection, we have doubts about ourselves and our desirability (yes, even very conventionally attractive people – have you any idea how insecure models are?) and making friends or acquaintences is not always easy. Pretending it isn’t, pretending you’ve* missed some magic key to getting Teh Sex or Teh Girlfriend, isn’t helping; it’s just making matters worse, especially when it turns to blaming everyone else in the world, like these PUAhaters are doing.

*”you’ve” in the general sense, not you specifically

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

@ Marie I am also a virgin by choice. It is shocking how fixated folks can be on that. Which is why in my personal life I try to avoid the topic.

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

BTW I just tried to explain misogyny to a group of 17-20 year old boys.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

And 2 and a half all years? Damn, that must suck. But try decade instead.

Well, it took 26 years before Mr K and I got in contact, so pardon me if I’m not going to wring my hands over ten. Seriously, your situation is hardly unique, and Marie had it right: focussing on dates and obsessing about not getting them is not doing anyone any good. Nobody knows if they’re going to have a partner(s) or not. We need to live our own lives, have a sense of our own selves, not be dependent on a hypothetical person to make us complete. First, that’s a hell of a load to put on anyone; second, what if we don’t end up partnered or in relationships? It doesn’t lessen anyone’s worth, but it’s a damn good reminder that relationships are neither guaranteed nor a fix for everything.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

melody – that must have been fun (not).

GT_GiantTurtle
GT_GiantTurtle
7 years ago

Thanks. I can’t talk about this anymore.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@melodyraewood

I’m not sure if I’d identify as virgin by choice, I just brought it up because Giant Turtle was acting like everyone was meaniepoos saying sex was so easy to have. XD Idk. I mean, I’d like to have sex and date, but it’s so not a priority atm in efforts needed wise. Need to get my life on track. So…I am by choice, but it’s not ideal. It’s just…there. Anway, rambling.

Also…that sounds head bangy against the wall. Did it go well? I hope, but someone I doubt.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Then don’t.

Seriously – if you’re not a PUAhater specifically or misogynist in general, then this is not about you.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Marie – I think there were at least two heads banging against that wall! 😀

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Nobody here is mocking people for not being able to find a partner, we’re mocking people for taking that unfortunate situation and turning it into an excuse to hate the following – hot women, not so hot women, Asian women, fat women, tall men, short men who have girlfriends, anyone who has a girlfriend or boyfriend who you think is too hot, anyone who has a boyfriend or girlfriend who you think is not hot enough, anyone who points out that screaming about what bitches all women are might not be helping with the whole problems finding a partner issue, and…did I forget anyone? I probably did, because these guys seem to hate almost everyone who isn’t them. And that’s why we’re mocking them.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

I’m … almost wondering if there’s going to be a hint of sock on the breeze.

Molly Moon
Molly Moon
7 years ago

Yeah I haven’t kissed anyone in the 13 years or so since I’ve been old enough for that sort of thing, despite wanting to for that entire time, and I never got the idea that the people in this thread were talking about my situation.

Because they’re talking about a ridonk sense of entitlement, not trouble getting laid.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

BTW I just tried to explain misogyny to a group of 17-20 year old boys.

How did it go? I don’t normally talk to guys that age except on the internet, so I’m curious as to how receptive they were to the idea.

On Marie’s comment, this is part of what bugs me about the whole incel movement and what it’s doing to public discourse about sex – there’s nothing unusual about being a virgin at 18. Put aside all the other stuff for a moment – even if you believed all the crap about how terrible it is to be a virgin, it’s still just not at all unusual for people to wait until their late teens or early twenties to have sex. I know the media says that it is, but it’s not. And it bothers me that the incel folks may be spreading their paranoia and weird ideas to people whose experiences aren’t even remotely outside the typical developmental curve. I don’t want random 18 year olds reading that crap and going “well, I figured I just wasn’t ready yet/was a late bloomer/was a little shy/wanted to wait till I was in love, but shit, maybe there is something wrong with me, because those guys sure seem to think so.”. It’s not healthy or helpful.

Fibinachi
Fibinachi
7 years ago

@melodyraewoodSounds neat. Keep explaining the good fight. Wait, no. Uh. Keep lecturing the good lecture? That works better, I suppose.

@post:
And my money is on “Because they want it to be true”. I mean the quotes sum it up perfectly. It’d be nice if it was true, actually, that every relationship was based on something so concrete as looks. People would slot together as neatly as gear pieces, grinding in some fantastic mechanical unison. You’d look at someone else, they’d look at you, your internal scanners would ping and refer to the latest update of the HuValueScale and either you’d proceed straight to sexing someone else, or go on your way. No conversation, no personalities needed, nothing like problems with labor division or task sharing or participating in birthdays. You’d just be pretty at each other.

Instead, it’s not. But so long as you tell yourself it is, you get a great, delicious heaping of rage, that most addictive of emotions.

@GT_GiantTurtle:

I don’t read any of the previous as mocking your situation, and I hope you find love and affection in the way you’d want it some time. What people are mocking is the bit where that desire to be with someone else slips into the desire to kick someone in the nuts for using a “racial advantage” on the wrong kind of “landwhale”.

Which makes it seem like he’s using some kind of RPG stat. “Okay, I’ve rolled up my Caucasian Incel, level 6. Got good stats, promise, except my charisma is really low. Damn. Can’t seduce any barmaids like this. They’re all going for those pretty boy paladins. Well at least I’ve got the Racial Advantage feat from being a Caucasian and at level 6 Incel I can rage like a Barbarian so long as I spend 1d4 rounds elaborating on skank-hos”.

If you’re not there yet, then I assure you, few people would mock you. Good luck with it all.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Being virgin is our default state; it’s absurd to think there’s something wrong with it. It’s just as absurd as thinking there’s something wrong with wanting or enjoying sex, or not wanting sex, for that matter. Yeah, I hoped I’d meet a boy when I left high school for my brief time at college (not uni – different things here). It happened, but not the way I expected. I’m glad the term incel wasn’t around then. I might just have been naive enough as a teenager to adopt it, who knows? But it’s a bloody stupid term that tries to pathologise a perfectly ordinary existence AND to blame the rest of the world for it.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Also, I don’t think Turtle is necessarily a sock, I think there are lots of young men who through a combination of unconscious sexism and messed up societal programming about how relationships work feel like screaming in rage about how terrible women are is a reasonable response to being frustrated about not being able to find a partner. It’s not, but there are a lot of young guys who think it is, and that women should respond with compassion and understanding to being called shallow bitches. Which is a completely unreasonable expectation, and I don’t think we do them any favors by patting them on the head and saying “it’s OK, we understand”.

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

I think my conversation went pretty well. Mostly because these boys are my clients and respect me for the most part. I don’t think they really understand, but they were not dismissive.
I do enjoy talking to these boys about stuff. They can be very sexist at times, but their behavior changes when around me at least. I like to think I’m making a small change in their thinking which could change how they treat women in the future.

melodyraewood
melodyraewood
7 years ago

Wait….why won’t it let me go back to being just melody?
This is ANNOYING.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I’m not sensing sock, for what it’s worth. Giant Turtle, it sounds like you left but if you’re still reading I want to say I’m sorry if it seemed like we were mocking people who were unhappy at being alone. I do think the guys who are the subject of the post are losers, but they’re losers because they’re hateful, bigoted misogynists.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Giant Turtle said zie is a woman, which made me raise my eyebrows a bit – a woman identifying us as mocking zir when this is entirely about entitled, misogynist men seemed very odd. Hence my wondering about socks.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

That’s a good point, actually. How extra alienating must all the incel stuff be for a woman who’s having a hard time finding a partner/sex? I can’t imagine that being told that the reason for your situation is that as a woman you’re an evil shallow bitch would be very helpful.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

We should take PRIDE in our evil shallow bitchosity!

Cos anything that pisses off these croutons has to be a good thing.

CL
CL
7 years ago

@CassandraSays As another woman (and mostly lurker) in a loonnnng dry spell (or whatever) it’s really not! And since I don’t feel like I’m approaching/interested in exclusively male models, the other explanation must be that I’m a disgusting landwhale. Fun! Luckily I get that PUA & PUAhate dudes both have no idea how the world actually works nor would I ever want to fuck them anyway. It’s easy to let it get you down sometimes, though, for real.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

@ CL

And then they wonder why there are no women on incel forums! Or, they should, but they don’t, because evil shallow bitches, etc.