The regulars at PUAhate.com – we’ve met them before — are a strange and bitter bunch. Most seem to be self-loathing so-called “incels” who blame their lack of romantic and sexual success on their average or below-average looks. Rejecting the basic premise of the pickup artist crowd – that average guys can transform themselves into suave lotharios by mastering manipulative pickup formulas – the PUAhate regulars tend to be true believers in what they somewhat pretentiously call “looks theory,” the odd and obviously untrue notion that women only date men with “male model” looks.
As one PUAhater put it recently:
PUA makes you think that all your problems are because of your personality/behaviour – i.e. things you can control. So when you keep failing, it means that YOU are fucking up and doing things wrong
the reality is that many of us just lost the genetic lottery. we are ugly, the wrong race, the wrong height etc, and that fucked us up. there is NOTHING we can do about it
So, naturally, the PUAhaters spend a lot of their time jealous of tall, good-looking men for their supposed monopoly on the women of the world — whom they also hate.
But the strange thing is that the PUAhaters pretty much hate everyone else as well. They get angry when guys they consider ugly score “hot chicks.” They get angry when guys who are good-looking but not male models get attention from “really hot girls.” And so on, and so on, and so on.
Indeed, many of the regulars seem to walk around in a perpetual state of rage, angry at each and every man who’s managed to pair up with a woman, not to mention the women as well.
One regular recently described his “day from hell” to his comrades:
To start the day I saw a couple where it was an average White guy with an OBESE Asian girl. They were walking around acting like they were trying to prove shit. LMAO. I wanted to kick the guy in the fucking nuts for dating that landwhale. If you’re going to use the racial advantage, at least date a girl who is under 300lbs. Later I go to the gym and see the same tall guys I usually do. Even if I had a good face, how the fuck do you compete with guys who are fucking 6’4”?
Then at the gym there’s this good looking White guy there talking to this Asian dude about how Asian girls are easy and how they approach him. To make things worse after that these fucking frat douchebags come in with their girlfriends to show off . Then to cap off the day a girl I used to know from freshman year walks right past me without even saying anything. I used to fucking live next door to this bitch and now she doesn’t even say anything and acts like a pretentious cunt. She’s an Indian girl dating a White dude lmao. Days like today make you wonder why you even still try in the first place.
Of course, as I’ve mentioned before, most of those posting on PUAhate don’t actually seem to be ugly by anyone’s standards but their own, at least judging from the pictures of themselves they sometimes post to the site, which reveal them to be mostly average-looking guys, with some of the regulars even quite conventionally handsome.
But evidently they would rather believe that they have “lost the genetic lottery” rather than face a more obvious explanation for why the girls don’t like them: because they’re shallow, self-obsessed assholes who hate themselves and hate women and radiate their bitterness from every pore. (And some are even creepier than this, like this pedophile – sorry, ephebophile – who’s angry at me personally because unlike him I don’t chase after 15-year-olds. Link NSFW.)
The PUAhaters often talk about getting surgeries to “correct” their supposed genetic flaws. They would do far better to spend that money on therapy.
Wow, you guys, it’s so very silly to just post extra comments to lengthen this thread.
Very silly.
Extremely.
Silly is what I do best.
I would never participate in such silliness.
Hello silly thread 😀
So was the goal just to breach 1500, or to just rack up comments until people get bored?
I suppose the first step for these wayward souls might be to read the following account detailing what heterosexual women dating male models might really undergo:
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/why-no-one-should-ever-date-a-male-model
I would propose that at least some of the users on the forum you’re mocking aren’t so much acting like this out of an inherent hatred of women, so much as from being chronically under-informed. It’s easy, or at least not difficult, for men like these to believe that “women only date men with male model looks” or the like, especially if you feel tormented by an omnipresent sex drive, have no reliable and side-effects-free way of squelching it, and are missing key pieces of the puzzle, which I’ll outline below:
-They don’t know the actual basis of heterosexual female attraction (which you’ve already covered in how they’ve been duped by the PUA industry), often dubbed “gina tingles” in this sector of the web. And how could they reliably find out? It’s not like the women who continually reject them can or will give them an aspect-by-aspect explanation of what they find unattractive about these men. So they misapply the “looks attraction model” (which they see as inherent to male attraction) to women, lacking any other tools of explanation. To them, attracting women for sex and/or relationships is a complete crapshoot with neither rhyme nor reason nor any factor they can control, and no matter how much they improve themselves in hopes of possessing that “unknown quality/quantity that will spark actual attraction,” the torment from their sex drives will only continue.
-They don’t know the importance of personality in heterosexual attraction. This is partly because they can’t ask the women who reject them about it, partly because they can’t ask happy couples on the street about the minutiae of their relationships and how their personalities make it work, and partly because they can see plenty of “decent guys” (whom some women say they’d “do anything to meet and date”) who get rejected plenty of times, and have no idea why. When you get told time after time about how a woman rejected or broke up with a man, for no apparent reason despite all the obvious good qualities he brought to the relationship, it’s easy to become suspicious of female judgment on who makes good relationship potential.
-They have little or nothing on which to base their confidence/self-esteem towards women. When you write that “most of those posting on PUAhate don’t actually seem to be ugly by anyone’s standards but their own,” how would they go about finding out something like that? I don’t believe that the majority of men get their looks validated on a regular basis in most First-World countries by women, for instance (whereas behaviour like cat-calls and wolf-whistling directed at women are inappropriate, but is still validation of their looks/sexual attractiveness in most cases nonetheless). In addition, western culture is full of putdowns on men, treating men or male characters as perpetually stupid and clueless (look at Homer Simpson) or fungible in relationships (listen to Beyonce’s hit song “Irreplaceable”). The old sayings about “women need men like fishes need bicycles” or “women need men because vibrators (which are talked about like they are better sex partners than any man) can’t mow the lawn” don’t help either. Being repeatedly rejected isn’t a positive experience for the majority of men.
It’s easy (or again, at least not difficult) to go from a continual lack of validation to resentment, and from resentment to hatred. When you see something you so desperately want pick itself up and go with someone who is demonstrably harmful, it’s easy to take those steps. When you see women have inscrutable standards and yet “give it up” for someone you can’t see the value of, it’s easy to write it off to the mysterious “gina tingles.” When every sight of a happy couple, or even a girl who routinely and happily spends time around the same man, can’t help but remind you of what you are missing and craving every moment, what these “incels” (as you mockingly refer to them) write is a little more understandable.
Perhaps it might even put a more human face on what you call “shallow, self-obsessed assholes who hate themselves and hate women and radiate their bitterness from every pore.” Perhaps they only want to love and be loved by the right woman, and are at a complete loss of how to get there. Perhaps they might even be taught better if we could understand, address, and offer better alternatives to their problematic viewpoints instead of reserving only mockery, derision, and better-than-you smugness for them.
Or would that be completely beyond the purview of this blog?
It would also be easy for them to inform themselves. A disdain, at the very least, seems to inform their lack of looking for such information.
Brilliant post, AFC. Many feminists would do well to listen.
@pecunium: Actually, I covered the obstacles to these people informing themselves about women and their relationships. Are there specific points in my comment that you take issue with?
I’m an incel myself, I’ve accepted a while ago that I’d never get a girlfriend and I don’t feel like it’s such a big deal.
The real problems are much more important than that: you say personality can fix all of your problems, but I can tell you that I’m always trying really hard to be a nice, studious guy and I can hardly get FRIENDS or even a JOB because of it, it sucks and denying that society is not a game of appearance is really, really foolish in every possible way.
Many studies have even reported that people who were under average looking were less likely to get high paid jobs.
When you’re an incel, you get shunned by your colleague, mostly male, but the women tend to follow the trend, you’re the all-star loser. We’re stereotyped as villains, creepers and perverts in all medias. Ironically enough, most of us gave up on embarrassing ourselves by asking women out.
You probably don’t even have these problems yourself, certainly you can’t see it much more clearly as I do. But if you look around you and you’ll see that attractive people form a clique around themselves as much as ugly people, both different. Attractive to average and average-low to plain ugly.
The good thing is that some people are just lucky to have that burlesque face that screams “that funny guy”, these people will most certainly find some love, but some of them are just “awkward” looking and will scare everyone around them.
I’m pretty much a 1/10 on that scale. I was bullied all of my life because of it and it’s not because I can’t speak, but because every time I smile, I look like someone who have a disability: my veins come out of my forehead, I have no chin, no jawline, no cheekbones, I can’t think of any person on earth I could compare myself to, except an ugnaught. I don’t even look like a man, I look like an ugly child.
If your employer won’t give you enough sympathy for a job, how could a women marry you?… and if you can’t love yourself, who will?
Some people are just doomed to be lonely and shunned by society, accept it and stop living in a dream world, you can see it everywhere around you, it’s not something you must cover under misogyny but something you have to change, it’s even more painful than fat shaming.
Excuse my french.
@AnotherFrustratedChump
I’ve read the VICE article, but even if they wouldn’t date male models doesn’t mean they would date incels, not to mention that there’s this quote: “They’re too skinny. I can’t be seen with a guy who is thinner than me – are you fucking nuts?”
How can you explain that society is not a game of appearance by reading this article? It proves the exact opposite.
Just to clarify, I don’t blame women.
I blame a society perverted by Hollywood stars and gossips, affecting men and women alike.
Actually I’m not even sure that’s the case, I’m just plain ugly and my ugliness doesn’t reflect any positive aspect of my personality.
I briefly checked out PUAhate.com. Most of the posters are guys who have purchased PUA material and criticise it, They’re annoyed because they feel like they have wasted time – and not to mention, money – on something that just doesn’t work.
Those despicable self-proclaimed “incels” tend to stick around on one subforum.
@Francis
I know lots of conventionally unattractive people who are in happy relationships. They spend less time reading misogynistic nonsense on the internet and more time actually living their lives.
“We’re stereotyped as villains, creepers and perverts in all medias.”
BS. Yes, people who identify as “incel” are stereotyped. People who don’t see being single as some sort of cosmic punishment are not.
Ugh, Francis’s comments are from a year ago. Not much point replying now, the thread’s only up again because J Smith necroed it.
Haha my bad! I have no idea why my brain thought July 25th could have been recently!
Don’t worry, I came *this* close to doing it too – saw July and didn’t read much further! 😀
How’ve you been, anyway? Haven’t seen you on site in ages.
Alright! Pretty busy with work, so I haven’t had much time for commenting. How are you?
Congrats on being a mod! Although, I’d imagine that heavy is the head that directs the banhammer.