The Public Shaming blog and Twitchy.com have been doing the world a service by documenting some of the worst rape apologist nonsense that sprouted up on Twitter in the wake of the Steubenville rape verdict. I thought I would add some more screenshots to the growing pile.
TRIGGER WARNING for some really horrible rape-apologizing bullshit.
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Atheist author Michael Crook had many opinions on the matter, some already cited by Public Shaming. Here are some more:
For more of Crook’s awful thoughts on the case, see this terrible post on his blog. Let me put another TRIGGER WARNING on top of the TRIGGER WARNING I posted above; Crook is really a piece of work, and his post is one of the worst things I’ve read since I started this blog.
Someone calling himself Reality Talks had even more opinions on the subject:
Bill Peace III thinks the whole thing is hilarious — except for the part about the rapists being punished:
A fellow named Tyler figures that the victim “got [what] she deserved.”
A teenager calling himself Space Cowboy shows how the attitudes that define and perpetuate rape culture are absorbed at a pretty young age:
Amazingly, after being called out on his bullshit on Twitter, Space Cowboy seemed to realize that he had been wrong to blame the girl, and deleted his victim-blaming tweets. Assuming he wasn’t being sarcastic when he tweeted that “the girl is an angle, [sic] the boys are to blame entirely,” it’s a heartening development, and evidence that rape culture can be unlearned as well as learned. If he was being sarcastic, his deletion of the offending tweets at least suggests that he now realizes that blaming rape victims is not socially acceptable in all social circles.
The misnamed Truthwatcher, meanwhile, blames everyone but the boys, with his Tweets basically serving as a sort of Rape Culture FAQ.
These are just a few snapshots from the Twitter stream. There’s a lot more nastiness out there.
But these comments are really nothing compared to the crass tweets, and pictures, and videos posted by or otherwise passed around by the rapists and their accomplices and their enablers. Or the threats, some of them made in the wake of the verdict, against the victim from anonymous internetters — and, more to the point, by other students at her school. I can only hope there will be more indictments, not only of the students who participated in the victim’s ordeal but of the adults who knew and did nothing or even worked to cover it up. The whole thing just sickens me.
Morkaischosen we need to make a big fucking change so that society will point “personal responsibility” at the people actually responsible. In this case, at the rapists.
And no, its unlikely the boys will ever be rehabilitated. They’ll just learn to hide what they do a little better and society will help them to cover it up.
How many people actually check the sex offender registries? How many sex offenders live around us that no one knows about?
One of the better commentaries I saw said we need to address the coaches role as well. He could have taught his boys what rape was, and what the consequences would be.
Instead he claimed she was trying to bring down his football program because she was embarrassed.
Yup, because taking them to trial was clearly the easy route.
/sarcasm, angry angry sarcasm
@katz It often occurs to me that we really do need shame in these cases. The perpetrators and those who defend them need to be shamed. Relentlessly. Endlessly. If I had a stronger stomach, I would start a website along the lines of one of those ‘slut-shaming’ sites and find all the people who tweeted support for rape and publish their tweets alongside whatever I can find of their identities so that every time they went for a job, or a college interview, or someone they were interested in dating decided to google them, all that bile would come up and they would be ostracized by decent society for it.
Someone has an overinflated sense of his place in the world. No wonder he never taught the team not to rape.
My initial reaction is “How fucked up is society that a sports coach is the appropriate person to teach kids that rape is bad?”
His reaction is utterly horrible. Not arguing with that for a second. It just seems weird that… blech, words.
I’m really glad I stayed home today so I am reading these stories with a purring cat in my lap.
The fact that that coach (Reno Saccoccia) hasn’t been fired yet? More rape culture. Judging by some of the tweets that night, he was either an accomplice or an accessory after the fact. I’m hoping he’s indicted next.
I grew up fairly isolated from high school sports culture so I don’t know, but does anyone have an idea if so many people would have rushed to the perps’ defense if they’d been, say, theatre or band kids?
A lot less. Like, a whole lot less. To the point of it being maybe a handful of people.
And the case would never have gotten nation/world -wide attention. Because who the fuck cares about arts. /sarcasm
Honestly, I wish I could just fucking yell at these horrible people face-to-face.
As much as I detest vengeance in principle, this is the most vengeful I have felt in months. The last time I was this pissed off about rape culture was when I heard some douche in my English class talk about how Connie in Joyce Carol Oates’ short story “Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?” deserved her fate. (It is implied at the end that she was raped and murdered – Oates has confirmed this elsewhere.)
This whole thing just sickens and saddens me and I don’t know what to say. But, since it hasn’t been mentioned yet, in addition to paul being absolutely horrible about the rape, he was also ableist. There is no reason to believe that Crook is “nuts as hell,” he’s just a disgusting human being. Being “nuts as hell” does not force people to behave like assholes or explain their behavior when they do. Is it possible to have one conversation about this that doesn’t equate mental illness with doing awful things?
See, I am a fan of rehabilitation, and juvenile sentencing. But rehabilitation =/= just give everyone light sentencing. With the system we currently have (NZ is much “softer”, probably more money put into rehabilitation programmes but ultimately has a lot of the same issues) I don’t know what is the best thing to do. Neither do I think the juvenile sentence should be lighter necessarily in the case of something so premedicated, sadistic, and with absolutely zero remorse shown.
With the reality we have, ANY real consequences would be good. When the media is exploding with support and all the people around them are sympathetic (!!) to them after what is an incredibly egregious example of rape, I fail to see what 1, 2, 5 years of juvie is going to do. They are literally being taught that if they don’t have video evidence, they can do what they want. They are learning to rape people who won’t speak up, and be a bit quieter about it. That’s all I see right now.
And yeah, I probably would feel sorry for them watching them cry. But I know it’s a bullshit reaction because that’s not remorse, that is feeling sorry for yourself. Not your victim. Not for your actions. For the fact you have some fucking consequences for your actions.
I’m really not surprised these perpetrators thought they were golden even if everything they did was all filmed and boasted about, given the number of uninvolved third parties who clearly feel they SHOULD have been golden :S
Feh. (The bit where it gets about me but shouldn’t)
To use the favourite phrase of my favourite ex, I have been that soldier; nineteen years ago I was in a similar situation to the victim in this, except mercifully it never made the news or anything. There followed a year of having complete strangers suddenly stop me in the street to inform me that, hey, wasn’t I beshemoth? well, while it was awful and the people in question were known to have done it before (which was news to me – at least the first time), could I not have kept my gob shut about it? because now there was a SCHISM in their uni society!
How they must have suffered.
Sorry, this is NOT about me, just… feh. Society, you need to go stand in the corner and think about the fact that you have failed to grow up in nearly two decades.
Also for a bonus victim-blaming point, I’ve seen loads of comments saying, ‘what about the victim’s mother, her kid was out partying at sixteen and WHERE WAS SHE’. Absolutely not one of these comments used the phrase ‘parents’ instead, or wondered about the whereabouts of the victim’s father.
At least her parents are there for her, I get the impression. Which is good.
Eh, brain dump, apologies. I am off to listen to Liz Phair’s Never Said Nothing, like, forever.
Also, I particularly think these kids are *less* deserving of any sympathy than many abusers. There was a case in NZ a while ago about a serial rapist – turns out his parents rented him to be raped from about 3 years old. I fucking cried for the child he was. But that doesn’t change a goddamn thing about his actions – just about how you approach attempting to rehabilitate him. Realistically most of these people are not very rehabilitateable.
These kids, no matter their age, just are displaying a confidence in their privilege and a deep rooted lack of empathy. THAT is fucking terrifying.
@tedthefed
You’re right about one thing: You have no reason to not be sorry for or feel bad for whoever attacked you.
…but maybe you ought to just shut up at this point because you keep saying other very stupid and thoughtless things to other victims of rape. Victims who haven’t had the luxury of moving on or “getting over it”.
I’ve got steel screws that hold my right cheekbone together, multiple skull fractures that never properly healed, a sternum that was cracked from top to bottom, scars, I will never be able to have children of my own, my nose is crooked forever, two fingers that go off at weird angles so much so that I will never again play the violin and a knee that will never again allow me to participate in another marathon.
I’ll never get past it. Ever. I can’t because those assholes broke me in ways you’ve never had to deal with.
So yeah, I’m gonna tell you that having sympathy for rapists is fucking stupid because you seem to have gotten off pretty fucking easy, boyo.
So just shut the fuck up, already. Seriously. SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Sweet Jesus! Kate, I’m so sorry that happened to you. Jedi hugs, if you want them.
Anyone else calling for a banhammer?
Ted, please stop with the calls for sympathy to rapists, you’re triggering people.
No, you don’t. You can support justice for victims and punishment for criminals and also, at the same time, support reform of the justice system and feel absolutely no cognitive dissonance because both are social justice concerns.
But really, given the topic of the day and the prompt for this forum, do you really feel that this is the right time and place to have a discussion about reform of the justice system?
No, you don’t. You acknowledge as much, but you posted it anyway…
Think about that one, and what it communicates, irrespective of your stated intentions.
For reasons I’ve already stated the ‘not fully developed brains’ hypothesis is crap. Crap that undermines the typical use that such research is put to, but is misused again and again to explain away behavior rather than develop ways to address and reform that behavior.
I won’t ever question your perceptions and private emotional responses, really that is your business. But I do question the definition of appropriate that you are working with here. Maybe we all should try to feel a kind of sympathy, or perhaps something more like a recognition of common humanity, even with people who do horrible things. And (though this is going to patronizing, I hope that you can try to hear it as completely earnest and sincere) I am really happy for you that you have been able to move to a point where you can forgive and feel sympathy for your rapist.
But while you are calling for sympathy for rapists in this space at this time, please look around and see who you are sharing a stage with. Are you comfortable standing among those people and lecturing others on whether it is appropriate, and just as valuable and worthy, to be anything but angry at this situation?
That’s absolutely horrific, Kate. =[ I hope you at least are receiving the love and support you need.
@Kate My sympathy and compassion for you is so immense that the words sound trite even to me as I write them. I’ll stop engaging with ted now, and I am sorry that my doing so kept the conversation going past a point that has obviously hurt you. My sincere and deep apologies.
Blech. I had some sympathy for ted, but then he appeared to miss the MANY people saying “Dude, not the time and the place.”
Ted: Please, please, please bugger off and find some thread on some forum where the conversation you appear to want to have is not extremely insensitive. This is not that thread.
Kate, I’m so sorry that happened to you. I have Internet hugs, coffee and donuts, and pictures of small cute animals if you want any.
I can post more pictures of my babies but maybe that wouldn’t be so comforting right now.
To everyone: Thanks for the hugs and good vibes… This happened many, many years ago and I’ve dealt with it as best I could. I’m hugging you all back REALLY hard, because I know what I’ve said is upsetting and I don’t want you guys to be upset!
@Falconer: I saw the pics you posted (I think) yesterday and … ZOMG THEY ARE SO FRIGGIN CUTE! You and your partner make some damn cute sproglets! Just thinking about them makes me feel better. That much cute can’t do anything but make a body smile.
@Gillian: No, don’t apologize. Please, don’t. It’s really okay that you said what you did, I felt you were trying very hard to be respectful and engage ted in a manner that wasn’t offensive. ted was being an asshat, but I don;t think you were.
@mxe354: Yes, I have had lots of love and support. Even now, so many years later I find I get that love and support in the places I least expect, like when I lurk and reads threads here. 🙂 So thank you for that.
@pillow in hell: Thanks. I’m not asking for a banhammer, though. I think ted has things to say that may be important and worthwhile discussing… but that this thread is not really an appropriate venue for such a discussion. Big hugs to you, and thank you.
To everyone again: I hope I can impress upon all of the regulars and not-so-regulars here how much GOOD you guys do every damn day by just being yourselves and talking, talking, talking about this stuff in a way that makes me and others feel valued, safe, listened to and internet-loved. All the baby animal videos don’t hurt, either.
Seriously, though, you guys fucking rock my damn socks and I love reading the comments here for the take-downs, the snark, the silliness and the general sense of community you guys work tirelessly to maintain.
and finally:
David: That you wade through this crap every day is a testament to your amazing strength, your love of your fellow humans and your hope that the world is going to be a better place, one day. You’re the bees knees. 🙂
Okay, enough glurge from me. I’m going back to lurking.
Hugs to all, and stay awesome.
Thanks for giving us such a perfect illustration of how rape culture works, paul, but really, you shouldn’t have. We would all have been perfectly happy without such a vomit-inducing “gift”.
PS Not being a virgin does not mean that a person can be assumed to be consenting to any sex ever with anyone for the rest of their life. This is obvious to everyone who hasn’t had their common sense and sense of ethics surgically removed, but apparently you already decided that you don’t need either of those things.
Did you read the specific details of what these boys actually did? Because if so, wow, you really are one of life’s great optimists if you think there’s a decent change of them being rehabilitated to the point where they aren’t a danger to the women and girls around them.
What these boys did wasn’t even remotely in any grey area where you might be able to blame misunderstanding or lack of cognitive development. It was deliberate, it was sadistic, and they were proud of what they’d done afterwards. Stop making excuses for their behavior on the grounds that they’re young. There’s only so much that can be excused by lack of full adult cognitive development, and what these boys did was way, way over that line.
If you remove rape culture and the messages it sends about how rapists aren’t fully responsible for their actions from the equation, why would you feel sympathy for the perpetrators? They committed a crime. It was deliberate, conscious, and cruel, and they boasted about it afterwards. If you haven’t bought into rape culture, what is there in the fact that they’re now being punished for their actions to feel sympathy for?
(Everyone else – sorry for the multiple comments, ted is trying my patience.)
Ted, please stop the manscusing (a particularly annoying variety of mansplaining). Lemme give you a hint: if you want to get out of this hole you’ve dug, your next post should either not be made at all (just move on to another thread, and stay on topic there without ever referencing this stuff again–if someone else brings it up, state, “I was wrong, which is why I stopped posting there”), or it should read as follows:
“Everyone, I’m sorry. I let a personal issue cloud my better judgement, and in doing so was crass and thoughtless, and disturbed many people with whom I should share common cause. I’m going to back out now, and hope that you all can accept this apology in the spirit it was offered.”
Note the absence of further explanations of why you crossed the line–we know, we understand, and you only insult those offended originally if you continue to explain it. Also, please no “if” clauses–it’s not a case of “If” you offended someone at this point; that’s been established.
Also, ted, you personally are allowed to feel whatever you feel about the man who raped you. No one gets to tell you how to feel about that. However, think about the people who’re expressing sympathy for the perps in this case. Do you think they’re doing that because they’re victims themselves? Honestly, it’s not very likely. There’s also the fact that the perps in this case don’t seem to be “broken” – sure, they’re sad now because they got in trouble, but they’re no desperate, broken people who couldn’t help what they did, they’re bad people who hurt someone because they wanted to and they could.
I know its easier, emotionally, to frame rapists as damaged people rather than as deliberate predators, because the knowledge that there are people who are predators all around us is scary. But that’s the reality. Urging society to have sympathy for the predators just makes it easier for them to keep hurting people, and I know that’s not what you want.