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Raw Story on The Top 5 Rape-Apologist Reactions to the Steubenville Verdicts [UPDATED]

rape_culture

RawStory has a piece up highlighting The top 5 rape apologist reactions to the Steubenville rape verdict. It’s well worth reading. As the author of the piece, Emily Mullen, notes:

The Steubenville guilty verdict spawned nearly as much rape apology as the original news of the case did, highlighting the point — made by feminists like Zerlina Maxwell and Jaclyn Friedman — that America has a long way to go before it gets past blaming victims and sympathizing with rapists.

I haven’t yet run across any reactions in the Manosphere to the verdicts, but I’m sure we’ll see some in the next few days. If you run across anything especially awful, in the Manosphere or outside of it, please let me know.

Men’s Rights Redditors, currently silent about the verdicts, were up in arms the other day because Reuters was identifying the accused — now the convicted — rapists, while not identifying the victim. Or, as MRAs prefer to put it, the “alleged victim.” Now, as RawStory points out, she is getting death threats.

EDITED TO ADD: More victim blaming online, as catalogued on the Public Shaming blog: First post, second post with more.

Below,  Several examples borrowed from Public Shaming. TRIGGER WARNING for rape apology.

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Viscaria
Viscaria
8 years ago

“Taking advantage” of someone, by the way, is my least favourite euphemism for rape. You take advantage of lucky opportunities that arise in your life, like when that sweater you’ve wanted for a month goes on sale. Or you take advantage of your friend’s good mood when deciding when to ask her for that favour you’ve been wanting. You don’t “take advantage” of someone being drunk and passed out, like it’s some sort of happy accident that’s happened to you. You make the conscious decision to assault and rape them.

*Not intended at all as a criticism of you, lumi, you just reminded me. It’s being used all over by apologists.

lumi
lumi
8 years ago

You know, viscaria, I never really thought about that phrase before. It does get icky when you think about it. Of course, from the point of view of a rapist, it is sorta like winning the lottery – ew, sorry, I’ll pay for everyone’s brain bleach.

clairedammit
clairedammit
8 years ago

Cloudiah, the LA Times reported on what the victim’s mother said, here.I’m not sure if that’s all of her statement.

Of course, someone is being horrible in the comments.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Oh FSM, why did I click on that LA Times link after clairedammit warned me.

[vomits]

But I am so glad that her mother has her back. I wish there was a way to show our support and let her know that things will get better for her.

Deoridhe
8 years ago

New evidence that a lot of people not only think men are evil monsters who rape at any opportunity, but are willing to say so in public.

I feel ill.

I need kitties.

Livestream of kitties: http://new.livestream.com/FosterKittenCam/TheCosmoFosters

pseudo_star_17
8 years ago

That’s it. Salt the earth, we’re done here.

Sorry to be so morbid, I just find these tweets and the people behind them revolting.

Buntzums
Buntzums
8 years ago

Looking for references people made to the Ohio rape case? This one is a little older. He’s not a MRA but the video is shocking and he is frequented by MRA’s on YouTube. Ramzpaul is a conservative commentator who in this video makes the assertion that the rape happened because people no longer slut shame. Sorry in advance for this link.

kinchski
8 years ago

Reblogged this on grumpyWhiteBoy and commented:
The story this links to is jaw-dropping. Rape apologetics give me the fucking creeps!

augochlorella
augochlorella
8 years ago

It doesn’t matter if it’s a bunch of the same arguments every time – I never get used to rape apology.

I’m just going to leave this brain bleach here.

pseudo_star_17
8 years ago

Wait, AGH! IGNORE PREVIOUS POST!!! For some reason it linked a different video! (I don’t know if David could remove the link? The video is not terrible, but DEFINITE problematic elements and NOT brain bleach)

[NOTE FROM DF: I deleted that last comment for you.]

pseudo_star_17
8 years ago

Damn it. I don’t know. David? Any chance you could delete those links? Really not appropriate for this thread, I don’t know why my link is going to the wrong place.

Sorry folks.

pseudo_star_17
8 years ago

You are a good man, David. Thank you.

Cthulhu's Intern
8 years ago

Every fucking time. Whenever some college football players do this, the vast majority of the people are like this. You’d expect some people to say that shit, but the vast majority? And famous political analysts even? Why don’t they do this for any other crime? Like, whenever anyone’s talking about home invasion, why doesn’t anyone say about how some people lie about home invasion to collect insurance money? And believe me, that happens a HELL of a lot more than false rape accusations.

Also, David, I just want to know, is Diogenes posting a whole bunch of angry comments knowing only you are going to see them?

oraclenine (@Oraclenine)

The thing that struck me about that first Twitter David quoted- “most people”.

Yeah, no. For starters, “most people” are not rapists.

Also, it seems Twitter guy thinks most people are guys. Guys who are rapists, evidently.

Twitter guy might want to take a step back and ask himself why he hates other guys so much he believes they are rapists looking for targets. Because,really, “most people” do not walk through their days looking for people to hurt, or rob, or rape, or kill. It’s not actually the default setting for humans.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

We didn’t rape her. The thought never crossed my mind. Most people wouldn’t rape a woman in a similar situation. The thought would never have crossed MOST people’s minds. To excuse the crimes of Mays and Richmond as a “boys will be boys, everyone’s doin’ it” kinda crap speaks very poorly of certain segments of society.

Yep. Most men don’t walk around just waiting for an opportunity to rape someone to present itself. This is because most men are not predators. When people start in with the “any man would have done the same” stuff, you know what they’re really saying? “I would have done the same.” So hey, thanks for letting everyone know that you’re predators, guys. Now stop pretending that everyone else is as horrible as you are.

katz
8 years ago

Why don’t they do this for any other crime? Like, whenever anyone’s talking about home invasion, why doesn’t anyone say about how some people lie about home invasion to collect insurance money? And believe me, that happens a HELL of a lot more than false rape accusations.

I wonder about that too (well, I don’t wonder because we know why, but it comes to mind). There are all kinds of tempting reasons to lie about being robbed (don’t want to admit you dropped your phone in the toilet, for instance), and still most of us don’t assume that’s what people are doing.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

@Deoridhe – I love the stretch kitty. I haz yoga!

@augochlorella – Hadji used to do the exact same thing as that begging cat! We called it praying. Wish I had video of it.

(I can’t bring myself to read the stuff about Steubenville, so prolly won’t be making comments relevant to that. I take comfort knowing that kitties are always relevant.)

KathleenB
KathleenB
8 years ago

Between this and the massive county prosecutor failbag show, my confidence in our legal system is kinda low right now. Summer before last, MrB heard a woman screaming ‘he’s gonna kill me!’ He ran out, but was too late to see any faces. They finally got the guy, MrB was called to testify. We waited two hours for the prosecutor to interview the witnesses, during which the judge berated a mentally ill woman for not planning ahead (the woman took a plea and was willing to do her time, she just needed a couple of hours to pick up her kids and drop them off with her mom). Another gem: ‘You’ve lived in Michigan a few years? Your record here isn’t very extensive.’

MrB’s trial gets called, the only witness who actually saw faces was called (no one could find the victim). The whole thing was a fiasco. The DA ran with a bad case, the defense attorney was very sharp, and the judge (no jury) said that people often shout loudly during ‘horseplay’ and found him innocent. (tho horseplay may have been a reference to consensual kink, but I have a hard time believing that kinksters would want non-particapting bystanders to get involved, it just seems rude to me).

tl;dr: bad week, faith in justice system at all time low. gonna listen to Neverwhere and get some sleep.

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
8 years ago

So, I made a meme today that i had been thinking about making for a while. It’s rather relevant, I think, though perhaps you have to be 35 to really get the snark.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3teped/

Catfish
Catfish
8 years ago

Only women are responsible for things that are done to them and other person’s decisions – drunken or otherwise. SHE ruined the rapist bastards lives when THEY decided to assault her. Yeah, faith in humanity gone.

Every news source is going on about the poor teenagers ruined future, but nobody is talking about the girl who suffered in their hands AND has police watching her house because the community just won’t fucking leave her alone and blame her for what was done to her.

As for hateful commentary, http://officialblog.michaelcrook.org/2013/03/travesty-of-justice-in-steubenville.html

Catfish
Catfish
8 years ago

The Kitteh : I’ve read enough, it made me so sick to my stomach that I can’t anymore. My post apparently got stuck in limbo, at least for now, but I know that besides that I’ll be avoiding this bile from now on, at least for some time.

I need comfort. Kitties always work.

blitzgal
8 years ago

I’m so glad to have a few safe spaces to talk about this in (Pharyngula had a thread up as well). This case has haunted me. First, I’ve heard people make the claims that Diogenes tried to claim above (the favorite word choice used is “fondling” — she wasn’t raped, she was just “fondled,” what’s the big deal?) To me that is such a big illustration that we are still soaking in rape culture. And FYI, yes, penetration with any instrument against a person’s consent is rape according to the law.

A woman travelling with her husband in India was gang raped by five men. A schoolteacher walking to work in New York was dragged off the street at gunpoint by a cop and raped (and HIS first trial ended in a hung jury because the jurors didn’t believe the victim could honestly recall how she’d been penetrated). When I was three, I was molested by my daycare provider.

All of those assaults happened under different circumstances. The only static component in all of them is the presence of a rapist. And yet, our culture continues to police the choices and actions of the crime victim rather than the criminal. It’s beyond fucked up. And anyone worrying about Mays and Richmond, or calling them innocent, really needs to re-evaluate their morals and values.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Internet hugs if you want them, Catfish and blitzgal. 🙁

Have some pinwheeling Scotties:

http://youtu.be/FDguOMIwuwc

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

A repeat,but always popular: Sharky, Max-Arthur and the Roomba.

http://youtu.be/vf9wHkkNGUU

blitzgal
8 years ago

And it’s not just average people on Twitter; the mainstream media continues to fuck up how they report on these stories. CNN’s Candy Crowley focused solely on the rapists and how this conviction is going to negatively affect THEIR lives:

http://gawker.com/5991003/cnn-reports-on-the-promising-future-of-the-steubenville-rapists-who-are-very-good-students

daintydougal
daintydougal
8 years ago

Maybe the mrm really is a ‘movement’, maybe they’ve just been lulling us into a false sense of security by being utterly laughable. Maybe their repulsive views are gaining more momentum. I’m scared. =(

Not helped by finding this comment:

In the past quarter century, we exposed biases against other races and called it racism, and we exposed biases against women and called it sexism. Biases against men we call humor.
—Warren Farrell, Women Can’t Hear What Men Don’t Say

Yes, a Warren ‘incest is great’ Farrell quote deposited under an article about a tv show written, created by and starring men. At first I laughed but now it just feels like they’re everywhere. It’s not even funny. *Shuts curtains and curls into fetal position*

link to misandrist article

blitzgal
8 years ago

And this girl’s getting death threats. The media may have shielded her name but everyone in her community knows who she is.

https://twitter.com/sadssoswagg/status/313360314177560576/photo/1

BigMomma
BigMomma
8 years ago

I just have no idea what the hell is happening. My brain just refuses to process this.

Tina
Tina
8 years ago

So the next time a teen boy slut gets drunk at a party: drug him, violate him, take lots of pictures, take him from party to party even when he’s vomiting, carry him around like a dead hog, make a video about how his penis and rectum are dry used up and his parents will wish him dead….share with everyone. When he cries “rape” later on, blame him for his foolishness in drinking and his sluttiness. Observe how his sexy clothes show that he was just asking for it, that he was giving consent. Heck, he’s male. He is supposed to be always willing and able and won’t turn a fuck down. He was obviously asking for it because he’s male and has a penis.

Does this sound about right? I don’t endorse this, by the way. It seems to me that if the situation would be flipped around that nobody but a few would care. The girls in this hypothetical situation are star athletes with bright futures and felt they could do no wrong. But would they get away with it? Or is this “unladylike behavior”? It’s all about the girl, not about the boys’ actions. If my son did this? Yeah, his future would be fucking ruined because he did this. Not the girl. Not his friends. He did it.

One more thing: women probably aren’t going to resort to this kind of behavior because we know better. It’s degrading. It’s insulting. It isn’t fun.

Not sure how I feel about the guilty verdict.

Catfish
Catfish
8 years ago

Finnish journalists and news sources have just published articles about how the news in USA are taking a very weird, emotional and backward approach to the case and ignoring the victim’s perspective completely. They specifically mention the CNN report of the trial.

BlackBloc (@XBlackBlocX)

Here, have a Super Mario Kitty brain bleach.

Sideliner
Sideliner
8 years ago

You know the whole “this is molestation not rape thing” makes sense* if you think about the two presumptions that underlie it:
1. That rape is about sex
2. That the perspective of the rapist is all that matters

There are plenty of people who consciously or subconsciously actually believe both, so they think if the guy couldn’t get off, it must be something different.

Luckily for the victim, the law looks at it from the victim’s perspective. It doesn’t matter what penetrated you, what matters is consent.

Also, it really weirds me out when people point this out as though they know better than all the actual people involved with the trial. Sure the boys had defense lawyers, and there was a judge, and tons of media attention….but only a random internet commenter figured out it was the wrong charge!!!

*as in “can follow the train of thought” not “actually literally makes sense”

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

2. That the perspective of the rapist is all that matters

Ugh, so much this, everywhere.

daintydougal
daintydougal
8 years ago

@Falconer
They’ve made pregnancy and childbirth painless now? =p
*I joke. Awesome babies. Much like those poor future football stars whose live have been ruined…nope, can’t even joke about it.*

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

Sideliner, you hit the nail on the head. The US law looks at it from the victim’s perspective. Almost gives one hope.

This isn’t the case in all countries, though. In the UK, the Steubenville charge would have been sexual assault. I think some of the quibbling over the charge is because of this. Sadly, too much of the quibbling is to distract from the real issues around the case.

In the UK, I think professional football (soccer) is our equivalent to the US school/college football. There are so many horrible reflections of the Ched Evans case in Steubenville.

Sideliner
Sideliner
8 years ago

@Falconer – they’re beautiful!

I have a 7 month old son, and he was up a few times last night with a nasty cold. At around 3am while I was rocking him back to sleep I started thinking of this whole story. I don’t pray often, but last night I spent a long time praying that I’d have the wisdom to know how to teach him to respect people and to be kind, and to never ever ever do anything like this or to stand idly by while someone else did this.

This is one mama who plans on taking Zerlina’s advice and teaching her boy not to be a rapist or to enable them!

Noadi
8 years ago

What bothers me is how many people are focusing on the fact she was drinking underage to excuse the rape. Should she have been drinking underage? No, we have a minimum drinking age for a reason. Last I checked though that is not an invitation to be violated and it’s certainly not consent. Those boys still made the decision to rape her while she was unconscious.

Falconer
8 years ago

I have a 7 month old son</blockquote.

Please tell me I get to sleep sometime soon.

Falconer
8 years ago

Dang you, blockquote monster. I spit at thee. Hisssss.

Falconer
8 years ago

Oh, and sideliner, thank you!

marinerachel
marinerachel
8 years ago

I actually do feel sad for the rapists in this case. I just wish they’d felt as badly as they do now when they raped the victim. They really have screwed up their lives in a big way. It can’t compare to what they did to the girl they raped though.

Podkayne
8 years ago

You know, I used to get quite drunk with other friends, male and female, who got quite drunk. I was never sexually assaulted. I think the worst thing that ever happened to anyone while unconscious was getting one of their eyebrows shaved off, which was pretty bad, admittedly, but not sexual assault. Usually passing out drunk meant you’d wake up with a picture of a dick drawn on your cheek with marker, or you’d just wake up hungover as usual. It never even OCCURRED to me at the time that sexual assault was a possible outcome, because these were my friends. I have a lot of thinking back on those memories to do now, apparently.

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

I think I’m more angry at society than anything. We raised these rapists. We told them that they were entitled to whatever they wanted, that noone would object, that the law would blink at them, because they are special , because they are young, male, athletic. Their parents, their teachers and coachers, their teammates and mentors all said that this is acceptable behaviour, something to boast about and put on twitter and laugh about afterwards. How many before them have done exactly this sort of thing and it been fine for them because society said they get to do that, that girls don’t matter and can be used and discarded? No wonder they cried at the verdict – we’d all told them it was fine to do as they did.

They must feel betrayed. /rant

Nitram
Nitram
8 years ago

I get uncomfortable with the description of these perps as “rapists” because it sears in our mind this pervasive myth that rapists are monsters and monsters are rapists. These boys are a product of rape culture. Just like the graph shows, it all starts with misogyny. Seeing women as things. Once a person is no longer considered a person, it is very easy to treat them like a thing. These guys got the message loud and clear they’re whole lives from the media, peers, role models, everywhere. The outpouring of sympathy towards them and suspicion of the victim continues this message. Until we as a society raise our boys that does not involve abusing or degrading women, we are going to continue to see otherwise promising young men perform heinous acts of violence. Everything else we do is just reactionary. These are not big bad rapists. They are ordinary people, taught from a very early age that women are things, they exist to please men, they have no agency. It is no surprise that men are raping unconscious girls and the world is not only not horrified, but the blame is put squarely on the victim’s shoulders. That being said, the majority of men are not violent, and I am in no way excusing these two boys’ actions.

crmsnfrn
8 years ago

I can’t even this without going incoherent in rage. Those boys deserved what they got and more. To hell with everyone mourning for their futures. They did something unspeakable to another human being. They deserve their punishment.

@Falconer
Your babies are so sweet! Looking at them, I can’t wait for my second to arrive in September. Give them all the cuddles!

reginaldgriswold
reginaldgriswold
8 years ago

@Nitram-

I think the degree of sympathy people have for these two boys is exactly why it’s helpful to describe them as rapists. The media outpouring, Twitter posts, Facebook posts, etc. pretty clearly demonstrate that a lot of people think this is something that just “happened” to these boys, and now their lives are over. But they were active participants in this, and I think making a point to show what they are – and they are rapists – is a step in correcting our discourse about rape.

Gillian
Gillian
8 years ago

Ugh. Love how when Mays apologized, he did so for not only passing the photos around, but that they had been taken at all.

(because, of course, if there were no pictures, it would be her word against theirs, and she had forgotten most of the night)

In other words, “Oh, boohoo, I regret taking the pictures that made this such an open and shut case and kept me from getting away with treating a human being like a piece of furniture…”

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

I guess I mourn for the boys they could have been, for the potential at birth that was lost, yet agree with everyone saying that they did something horrendous and deserve their punishment.

But enough about the boys from me. I shall reserve my sympathy and concern for Jane Doe and her future.

Nitram
Nitram
8 years ago

@reginaldgriswold

I agree that it needs to be made clear that these men raped this woman. The passive language needs to stop (headline reads “woman was raped”, rather than “man raped woman”). I think that can be done without using the word “rapist” as if it is the whole of their identity, NOT for the sake of being fair to the people who raped. For the sake of being honest about how complicated and wide spanning this rape epidemic is. In short, “rapist” sort of neatly categorizes the problem. “He’s a rapist”, that’s what he does. Why are otherwise good people doing heinous acts? Why are we not horrified? I hope I’m explaining this clearly.