Here’s a suprisingly candid comment from an MRA in the Men’s Rights subreddit, challenging the misogyny within the movement:
Oh, wait, that’s not from the Men’s Rights subreddit. HalfysReddit did originally post this to the Men’s Rights subreddit, but the mods deleted it, and so now the only reason it’s still available is that there’s a bot that automatically reposts all self-posts to the Men’s Rights subreddit.
Before it was deleted, HalfysReddit’s post did inspire some discussion amongst the Men’s Rightsers. Well, it was “discussion” only insofar as a bunch of comments telling HalfysReddit to stuff it counts as discussion. Here’s one thoughtful comment:
Sorry, did I say “thoughtful?” I meant “delusional.”
Though I’m pretty sure he’s right that feminists aren’t going to fight for anonymity for rape defendents or the “right of paternal surrender.”
Oh, and here’s a guy comparing Men’s Rightsers to the Black Panthers.
The Men’s Rights subreddit, where the notion that MRAs should tone down the misogyny a bit is too radical to even debate.
Hmm, just for clarity: by utterly shitty I do in fact mean that by saying things about “anonymity for rape defendants” is not something I am not condoning, because of the… worrying specificity.
Thanks, Tulgey Logger – I was also having some issues with the use of ableist terminology (“sanity,” “crazy,” etc.) in the thread. I know it’s hard because they’re so pervasive, but being shitty and hateful is not a mental illness, and it sucks for actual people with mental illnesses when they get conflated. (People with mental illnesses or mentally ill people? does the community prefer person-first language or not? I know a lot of autistic people have strong ideological objections to person-first language, but idk if it’s the same situation with mental illness).
@MKelein: We usually describing ourselves as having or experiencing mental illness.
The “Out in public we censor ourselves, in private we speak our minds” bit reminds me of the http://manboobz.com/2012/04/25/get-in-mah-belly-heartiste/ post, as if the acceptance of not being a douce was just some common courtesy people indulged in, mutually, all across the board and everyone secretively knew it was all just a conspiracy. But they didn’t want to “let on” but yeah, hah, everyone is really a twat.
Oh hey, fun side-note, that particular strain of delusion kept me in misery for years.
So, MRA’s, I propose a different idea: The reason people “censor” themselves in public, for any reason generally, but specifically in relation to talks about feminism? The moment you say women are against men getting a decent education, people stare at you not because you’re speaking some truth fire forged in the crucible of your inner promethean thought-god, but because you’re being a douche. The awkward silence that follows when people are not politically correct in public follows because you say stupid things that everyone else has already grasped, internalized and made part of their universe. And they need a second to reboot their brains to accommodate a culture wherein people can endorse rape camps. Oh, sorry, I shouldn’t link you to fringe extremists and random elements of your own movement because generalizing is bad, haha, yeah, and all first wave feminists were violent and angry. What I meant there was: “A second to reboot to accommodate a universe wherein people claim mens rights is about debunking feminism and the response to “Let’s not be misogynists, now” is “But have you seen women? Dude, they suck!””.
Your issue cause is not and cannot be the rights of anyone if your only direct line of thought is to be in contrast to another movement for the rights of anyone.
Good post, Fibinachi – one thing: please don’t use twat.
Oh not this US-centric crap again, twat is NOT a gendered slur everywhere just because it is where you fucking are. I find it offensive to be called ‘person of colour’ and using the term here will get you some raised eyebrows, but oh no it’s the accepted murrkin phrase, so nonwhite nonyanks don’t get a say in the matter. Language policing only seems to work one way here. Disappointing since so much of this crap comes from people who are sooo proud of their privilege awareness.
“Oh not this US-centric crap again, twat is NOT a gendered slur everywhere just because it is where you fucking are.”
Oh the irony – you’re assuming I’m from the US, are you? Wrong. I’m Australian and I use mostly English-based slang, and yes, twat is a gendered term, so kindly pull your head in.
I’m a Scot living in Australia and I’ve always understood twat to be gendered.
And also I think if you are upset by the way people phrase things, you can open up a discussion with everyone rather than having getting all shouty.
You could also try reading the threads, where you might have noticed that “the US is not the world” gets mentioned quite often, frequently – gasp! – by Americans.
Actually, “twat” is not generally used in America. It is, however, recognized as a gendered insult. In a moderately-safe discussion space, commenters may certainly ask for others not to use gendered insults. The proper response is to reconsider your feelings about using the word (it’s usually a slip that you honestly did NOT think about) and, if you so choose, to be more creative with your insults in the future. I’ve personally let go of “hysteria,” a word I used to be pretty fond of, but which I’ve stopped using because of its gendered past.
Like Fibinachi did, we often reach for what we *think* is a generic word only to discover, upon reflection, that it’s gendered. We simply don’t think about it very often, as it’s part of the background radiation of our lives. One problem is that our default way to insult people is by comparing them to ladyparts, QUILTBAG folks, sex workers or the mentally disabled. Upon examination, that’s not a great way to insult people.
Going forward, a perfectly good replacement word is “butt.”
::waves:: Hi, elodieunderglass! 🙂
Is “wanker” acceptable? I’d be a bit sad to let go of wanker.
It certainly gets used a lot here! I don’t think it’s gendered. I tend to use tosser, too – nobody’s said anything, and I’d miss both. (Tricky to phrase any of this without double entendres, lol.)
Is that a spaniel in your gravatar, ArchaeoHolmes? I looked at the full size pic and still had to stare at it for a minute, like a puzzle. 😀
@kitteh Yes, the full-sized is all pixilated – I was hoping no-one would notice. It’s a little spaniel looking up imploringly – in the olden days.
I can see it properly now – 19th century pic? Touch of the Landseers about it? – but when I first looked at either size I thought it was an owl, a flower or a wig! (It’s late and the chokky bikkies haven’t kicked in yet.) It is nice and clear in the hovercard size.
Hmm, Maybe I should change it, although I don’t mind if people think I have a wig for my avatar. You are right it’s late, and I should go to bed.
ah but Q and A is still on, guys.
it’s not bedtime yet, is it?
Late apology for my ableist language. I am sorry. /sincerity
Um. This is kind of late, but can anyone point out a country/culture/subculture where “twat” or any variant thereof is NOT a gendered slur? I’m having trouble imagining how that works, considering what it’s usually referring to when not used as an insult 😐
This is going to sound incredulous, but I’ve just been assuming twat was meant like someone actively tatting. Meandering meaninglessly in a silly manner. I… honestly had no idea that it was an anatomical reference and thank you for pointing it out. I guess that does make a lot of uses of it way, way more logical and coherent and reasonable? Huh, the things you learn that you really should have learned already!
I’m just going to stick with “Unspiffy” from now on. These people sometimes make very unspiffy statements. .
I admit I was naive as a child – I thought twat was no different from twit. Had no idea of the anatomical meaning. ah, the innocence of childhood.
Can I borrow “spiffy” occasionally, Fibinachi?
I’m pretty sure that “twat” is universally a gendered insult. It means vagina or vulva after all.
And as to the point about “person of colour”, that is in fact correct. It isn’t the right phrase to use in a British context certainly, the right term would be BME (Black and Minority Ethnic).
What misogyny? I saw some feminist bashing, but don’t know that it’s unwarranted. You seem to confuse feminist with woman. Are you having gender identity issues? Did it really get deleted because it opposed misogyny in the MRM or was it because it suggested that MRAs should play nice with feminists in hopes that they might some day decide to help end injustices against men. Based on the comments, it seems that the latter is true.