Our Misandrist Future?

@Diogenes:

EVERYBODY read transphobia into that. You phrased it like crossdressing is a BAD thing, which is often asociated with trans* stuff** and trying to enforce “normal” gender roles

**Ag, even I, who am really HORRIBLE at telling what’s transphobia because I’m not that well educated in trans* issues, can tell it’s transphobia

Also, feel free to check my on my shit if I said anything awful here. It would be horrible and ironic if I was transphobic while trying to make a point that one SHOULDN’T be (and horrible b/c it’s treating people bad)

No normal person would read transphobia into what I wrote above.

ok, I debated just pointing and laughing at you, but I’m going to bang my head against a wall and try to explain this.

What if he started cross-dressing? Grew his hair out long? In your opinion, is it creepy to dislike any of that, or controlling to ask him to change?

that is what you said. We’ll get to the second part later, but what you said implies that people should want to dump their partners for cross dressing. Why? Is it because it’s feminine? because it seemed like we shouldn’t date men who like doing ‘feminine’ things, or shouldn’t date men who are more stereotypically feminine.

Ok, that explained why it was offensive. I can’t coherently tie transphobia in cuz it’s not something I’m knowledgeable on, but see how I actually admit that? Anyway, it’s offensive, don’t do it.

Now, that last part:

In your opinion, is it creepy to dislike any of that, or controlling to ask him to change

yes, it is controlling to ask them to change, besides maybe just mentioning that you preferred them x way.

but not caring about your partners preferences is like checking out of a relationship.

so dump them if you aren’t comfy with their preferences. They don’t have a duty to conform to you. There is a way out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia

If you’re going to use a word, use it correctly. How did anything I write conjure up fear of trans-people unless you intentionally took it out of context?

And, don’t try making a bandwagon argument out of this, because a bunch of people can be wrong all at the same time.

Damn it, Diogenes. You have a right to prefer a shaven pubic area on your partner. You have a right to exclude from your dating pool women who don’t shave, and to express to potential partners that you have this preference. What you DO NOT have the right to do is to expect or demand that someone shave herself, when she otherwise wouldn’t, simply because you prefer it.

I don’t know why this is hard.

And your partner’s preference FOR WHAT GOES ON IN THEIR OWN BODY takes precedence over YOUR preference for what goes on on their body.

exactly. That’s a great way to phrase it. Diogenes, you should maybe tape it over your bathroom mirror til you get it in your head.

Also, diogenes, transphobia and homophobia are usually understood to include hatred or bigotry, not just fear. you should know that if you’re supposedly so educated.

Oh god, it’s the “I’m not afraid so it’s not *phobia!” argument. Dude, if you haven’t caught on to the fact that (a) language changes and (b) current usage is that x-phobia refers to prejudice against x (let alone (c) there is a lot of fear in people’s reactions to gay and trans* people), you need to get in the game, son.

What you DO NOT have the right to do is to expect or demand that someone shave herself, when she otherwise wouldn’t, simply because you prefer it.

something else you should drill into your head diogenes.

That’s why awful and awesome mean the same thing.

at least in diogenes-land 😛

@Some Gal “When people say that a person has the responsibility to stay roughly the same, they are also saying that a person who gets sick is failing that responsibility.”

RIGHT?? It’s like, the second i meet you i need you to be cryopreserved. POSSIBLY WEARING THE EXACT SAME OUTFIT ALL THE TIME. Because life is SCARY. I can only hope that people like that never form lasting relationships, because then no other person will be set adrift and abandoned when they get the flu or FSM forbid, cancer. 🙁

(And no worries about the name, i shortened yours, i hope that’s okay! 🙂 )

And @The Kitteh’s, it’s clear that Mr. K is who you love, not the one and only appearance of Mr. K — there was the tail and you still loved him with it, IIRC! 🙂 I think that it’s sad the relationships where people think someone must be only one thing and one thing ever. Wouldn’t everyone simply _prefer_ a relationship where each partner was loved for themselves? Tail included where applicable? 🙂

(Granted this is not saying that if someone is not attracted to something they must forever love that person anyway. But not all of us are attracted ONLY to the appearance of our partners.)

@emily

See above where I myself stated there is no way for one adult to control another. I used the wig/head covering example.

And, this isn’t a rage-o-meter contest. You’re not impressing anyone about how mad you are at someone else on behalf of someone else. In context, I gave an example of change. I did not add in anything else. You decided to take what I wrote out of context.

I didn’t make any moral/philosophical declarations on cross-dressing. Wrap your head around that.

I’ve been with MrBigMomma for nearly 22years. We have a REALLY good pictorial history of how we have both changed over the years physically. Guess what? We still love each other. I still think he is the best man I have ever known. If he’s unhappy with how he looks, I would hope that we could talk about so I could reassure him that he is just fuckin A-OK by me. If he is still unhappy, then I would support him to find a way to resolve that.

This insistence on ‘looks are everything’ is just so one dimensional.

Plus the whole shaving thing, I did it once…man, it ITCHED when it grew back. I have better things to do in the morning than keep that regrowth itch at bay. I think it’s perfectly OK for my sex partner to ask me to shave and it is perfectly reasonable for me to consider the request and either acquiesce or refuse. The sex partner then has to decide if it’s a deal breaker if I refuse. They can then choose not to have sex with me. But nobody gets to blame or expect women for this logical series of choices.

What is fucked up is that the expectation that all women should shave because pubic hair is just icky but wide spread shaving of male pubic hair is not as expected. Some men do, I know that but it’s seen as a kink more than anything (IMO)

I do believe that there is, for some people, and idea that hair is revolting on women because it represents the transition from child to adult woman. And adult women are threatening.

See above where I myself stated there is no way for one adult to control another.

Awesome abuse apologism, bro.

Oh wait, sorry. Awful** abuse apologism, bro.

See above where I myself stated there is no way for one adult to control another. I used the wig/head covering example.

see, diogenes, no one should try to control another person, diogenes, but sadly people do try to, diogenes, which makes it sound like you’re living in imaginary land, diogenes.

I didn’t make any moral/philosophical declarations on cross-dressing.

no, no, no, I didn’t directly say it was bad, I just really implied it! Totally different things, I swear!

@big momma

I just got a kitty avatar, but it was cuz someone linked, so hopefully someone with the link links the instructions again XD