One reason so-called Nice Guys ™ seem so creepy to so many people is that it’s easy to see the rage and the bitterness and the weird sort of self-hating entitlement that is so often lurking underneath – and sometimes not that far underneath – the “nice guy” exterior.
Consider the gutwrenching case of Jill Meagher, an Irish woman who was raped and murdered in a suburb of Melbourne Australia last September by a man who accosted her on the street as she was walking home from a bar. A man who later told police that he had only approached her in the first place because he was “trying to be nice.”
In a lengthy interview with police, in which he confessed to raping and strangling Meagher, Adrian Ernest Bayley explained that he had only approached Meagher because she “looked distraught” and he thought he could “help.” And he only became angry at her when she rebuffed his kind offers.
“It wasn’t really my intention to hurt her, you know that?” he told police.
I spoke to her, you know and said, look, I’ll just – I’ll – I’ll help you, you know. … She flipped me off and that made me angry, because I was trying to do a nice thing. You know that? …
I was just – I was trying to be nice and – she kept going from being nice to nasty, to nice, to – you know what I mean?
Earlier in the evening, Bayley had reportedly argued with his girlfriend about his “jealousy and possessiveness issues.” The girlfriend returned home, where she reportedly told her landlady that she was “hiding from Adrian.”
The newspaper The Australian paints a picture of a man with rage issues and very little self-awareness.
Mr Bayley was working for a drainage company until his arrest six days after Meagher went missing. The workmate he had been drinking with that night told police Mr Bayley would become “angry and aggressive” after fighting with his girlfriend.
“He had a very short fuse and didn’t like to be told he was in the wrong,” he said. “In the times that I worked with Adrian, he was often talking about women. He would say he couldn’t understand how men could hurt women or be abusive towards women.”
None of this is to say that all Nice Guys ™ are harboring killers inside of them, or anything even remotely like that. But those who most loudly proclaim their “niceness” often turn out to be pretty awful, in part because they think that women owe them something for being so insistently “nice.”
That if he does things like that the legal system will come down on him like the fist of an angry god, and society will call him a rapist for the rest of his life.
I mean, that’s not actually going to happen, but if it did it would be a lot more useful than whatever weak-ass coddling approach you have in mind.
Dualityheart, what a horrible situation to be in. I hope you stay safe!
@CassandraSays: At some point further increasing punishment doesn’t deter crime. A high probability to be punished is more efficient. But it lies in the nature of some crimes like arson or rape that they are difficult to prove and prosecute.
Jaro: please quit digging this hole. STAHP.
In the case of rape, it would be nice to see what would happen if we started convicting more than a tiny percentage of rapists. Once that’s done we can assess what the effect of any punishment at all would be.
In other words – reality, you don’t seem to be acquainted with it.
I rather hope Jaro keeps digging – Cassandrasays is just rocking those slap-downs.
Whack-a-dumbass, it’s my favorite internet game.
OH HAI, a wild bullshit argument appeared!
Hey Jaro? Pro-tip (nearly literally!) about impulse control disorders — they don’t magically become all impluses properly controlled when around a boss, cop, large person who’d win in a fight. “Poor impulse control” around smaller, weaker, or vulnerable people? That’d be generic violence, not a disorder.
Simpler version — if the person can control themselves in situations that would harm them, then it isn’t an impulse control disorder. (Like, tautologically so.)
…why am I giving psych 101 lessons to an asshole?
I’m actually going to agree on a minor thing w/ Jaro
however, the punishments for rape are laughable, or would be if they weren’t happening in reality. For some crimes, I might agree. But rape, especially in america, where I live? No, just no.
Because hope springs eternal? See, that was almost as much of a cliche as the shit Jaro’s been babbling about, but not quite. Truly he has set the “LOL are you serious with this shit?” bar high.
Cassandra — he really has, yeah. And idk, maybe it’s just my pedantry acting up!
So at least the focus switched away from “teach men not to rape”…
Also, I actually agree with Cassandra, we have a low conviction rate (though not to that extreme, but I’m not going into a debate about one of the most controversial issues in criminal statistics). Is it fixable? To a certain degree, sure. But there’s a difference between some improvemnets and a solution. If one of the main reasons for the low conviction rate is the nature of the crime (and no, that’s not such a stretch. For arson this claim is uncontroversial.), it’s not easy to envision a solution.
@Argenti Aertheri: I answered that already in my first post where I linked to the paper “Kluver-Bucy syndrome, hypersexuality, and the law.” (abstracts only, sorry) This case is a vivid example. There was evidence that the patient could volitionally control his criminal behavior. But who would be upset if someone talks about his brain disorder as a cause for his behavior? [hint: no psychologist or psychiatrist] The authors even deny his criminal responsibility (we can argue about that).
@Marie:
In the UK in >80% of the cases prison sentence is >5 years, average sentence is ~8 years (the 17% of cases with “indeterminate sentences” for public protection excluded). So while these sentences may be low, I don’t think they are laughable.
In the US, I would say, reg all sex offenses, prison sentences are rather inconsistent than light (e. g. state/federal disparity, effective life sentences given for non-contact sex offenses vs. sometimes light sentences for rapes).
Also don’t forget that it’s a huge deterrent to be placed on the public sex offender register for life. All it takes is googling your name to find out. The stigma that comes with that, the restrictions about work and where you can live (leaving many homeless), the fear of vigilantism etc. So when that Steubenville guy cried “My life is over!”, I would say “Yes, it is.”.
Apparently it IS NOT a huge deterrent to be placed on the registry. Are you kidding? That’s a system that can be gamed, and one I’m not sure I agree with 100%
Leaving aside all the other bullshit for a moment, why should anyone care if the Steubenville guy feels like his life is over? He should have thought of that before he raped someone.
It’s always funny when dudes show up to argue about this kind of thing to see the unconscious biases that they reveal by the way they frame their arguments.
well, I think it’s a good thing you can google rapists. They should’ve thought about that before they fucking raped people. I sure the hell wouldn’t want to be working with one.
I don’t follow. You excluded the ones with ‘intermediate sentences”? I don’t follow the logic.
I don’t care if his life is over. He ended it pretty well all on his own.
Hellkell, you meanie, why can’t you just feel sorry for the poor little rapist?
Jaro really has no idea how much about himself he’s giving away.
Where is my tiny violin, so that I can hand it over to Argenti who can actually play a sad tune on it in honor of those poor, poor rapists?
I know, I am the biggest meaniepants who ever did pants around meanly. My heart pumps purple piss for the rapists of this world and their enablers who expect me to feel bad.
This just hit me. I love how I said he lived in the US and was making statements about their rape crimes and he immediately cited the UK. *sigh* troll, whatever will we do with you.
(and I can’t believe I missed that the first time XD)
to his small amount of credit he talked about the US later but all it seemed to be was those poor rapists get put on the sex offenders list, and I already expressed my feelings on that.
Count me in as one who’s never going to shed a tear for a rapist. If his life is over – fine.
I mean sure, the girl was raped by multiple people, but now this fine upstanding young man will be on a list! Why can’t everyone see who’s the true victim here?
@cassandrasays
*gags* I hate those kind of people. >:( grrr.
When will Jaro come back? I’m in desperate desire to tear something apart, and his ‘arguments’ seem like a fine chew toy.
NOT THE LIST!!!
We haven’t had a good chew toy for a while. This one is promising.