So Anita Sarkeesian, who apparently didn’t run off with all her Kickstarter money to found a Misandist Gynarchy in the wilds of Canada, has released the first video in her Tropes vs Women in Video Games project. (I’ve embedded it below.)
Naturally, this is causing great consternation in certain corners of the Internet (*cough* Reddit *cough cough* everywhere else that misogynistic nerds congregate *cough*). In the Man Boobz forum, Katz has started a contest to see who can find “the whiniest, brattiest, most entitled response” to Sarkeesian’s video on the Internet. So far Katz and Myoo have found a couple classic comments from irate Sarkeeianaphobes:
[H]ow does one go about stating that genders and gender roles are social constructs? I mean is evolution nothing to her? Does the patriarchy make male peacocks dress provocatively?
Yes. Yes it does.
And:
I’m gradually losing respect for the opposite sex. I’ve unfollowed people on tumblr who talk about how great she is, because it actually causes bile to rise in to my throat.
Yeah, that’s a totally reasonable response to a woman making a video about video games.
So anyway, I’m thinking we should bring the contest over here.
See what you can find! Consider it a sort of scavenger hunt.
Here’s my contribution, from the Men’s Rights subreddit, complaining that Damsels in Distress are the truly privileged ones:
Amazingly, this acutally got called out on r/mr as being pretty damn stupid.
Also, I have another question, to add to the stack of other questions I’ve been asking lately: Just why do you think so many guys get so angry when girls and women invade what they consider a male sphere, like gaming? (Also, why do they consider gaming to belong to boys and men?)
Oh, and here’s the video that’s causing all this hubbub:
Even taking out the feminist aspect – relying on tropes like this is lazy writing. What is wrong with someone hoping that the people working in the medium she loves might try not to be lazy?
“I didn’t read Michael’s joke as virgin-shaming – and I am virgin, too, by any physical standards. I read it as creepy MRA shaming: the why of guys like this being alone, not the fact of it. Which might be splitting hairs, I dunno.”
Yeah, and I’m bad at it. Or maybe really good at. Splitting hairs I mean. But I was bad at making my point.
From the same guy as my previous one, in response to someone who said that half his female friends play Skyrim, he says:
Women working for money = free money
Indeed, that’s a major theme of her criticism: If your whole story is driven by “a bad guy came and carried off a girl and we have to get her back,” then that’s a lame story.
@Kim
I think that “legitimately” was supposed to somehow stand in for “in ways no one ever criticizes.” So, since lazy writing would be a criticism, clearly what they are doing can’t be lazy. 😉
I also don’t think someone who is basing so much on an appeal to tradition would care much for original material. It is surprising they are so invested in such a new-fangled medium.
Myoo… Dennis was more than just weird. His factive, fictive shit was.. well… huh.
Here I found someone who thinks that Sarkeesian should have enabled comments in order to be worth agreeing with:
And, in response to the suggestion that he make his own response video on YouTube comes out with this:
So, you can just ignore these comments and also, maybe Sarkeesian should have made this on a better YouTube? Seems legit to me.
Metalmattz here and here.
Wow. I was going to write something snarky about that but I’m just at a loss for words.
Female gamers only count if they’re attractive, but guys can have opinions no matter what they look like! (Disregard the fact that if a female gamer is “attractive” she’ll probably get called a poser because no attractive women could be interested in gaming.)
Ick.
Ow wow I was hoping the ‘they’re not attractive so they’re opinions don’t count’ guy was kidding. O_o
I’m really glad David made this post. I’ve been in a funk over this all day, and I really need to hear reasonable (read: not sexist asshats) people talking about this. I’ve considered myself a gamer since I was in third grade, and I can remember even then being shocked at how women were portrayed in games and struggling to find characters that I could identify with personally. It really frustrates me that some people can’t even admit that there’s sexism in video games. I mean, seriously, have you played like, pretty much any video game made ever?
What’s really gotten to me though is how this whole Anita Sarkeesian “debate” has brought out the misogyny in some of my gamer friends – people I’ve been gaming with since childhood and I thought I could trust. I may actually be a bit heartbroken right now. 🙁
Sexism in games is worth looking into, but it seems like the quality of her videos are no different than before. Maybe I was expecting a little more with her new budget.
Sorry (not sorry) to self-promote, but i’m reblogging some of the vitriol on tumblr under the url http://final-boss-of-gamer-culture.tumblr.com/
A lot of it isn’t as bad as the amazing atheist’s video, but it’s still entirely awful human garbage.
@augochlorella
I’m sorry. 🙁
Isn’t the way that YouTube videos work that if you don’t like what someone said in their video you make and post your own video in response? I think these guys need to learn to internet.
Amazing Atheist wins more whiny, entitled response for WHY WON’T YOU LET ME CALL YOU A BITCH IN THE COMMENTS ON YOUR VIDEO EVEN THOUGH I MAKE MY OWN VIDEOS THAT’S NOT FAIR WAH.
All the comments about Sarkeesian wanting attention from guys who’re basically whining about the fact that by disabling comments she’s refusing to pay attention to them win the irony prize.
Is it sad that I come home and immediately check man boobz? I want to know how you all have been doing!
@augochlorella, I have been there, though not in this specific context. It sucks, and it’s hard. Sorry, and hugs if you want them. Also bear in mind that you may be as important to them as they are to you, and you may be able to use that to make them re-think some of their sexist positions. I’ve actually found that “You can’t be a sexist if you want to be friends with me” is more effective than I thought it would be. Don’t undersell your importance to your friends.
Oddly, most of Reddit seems remarkably okay with it… the supportive comments are massively upvoted, even in /r/gaming. The only ones who are still whinging about this are the denizens of r/MR specifically (and a few in r/SRD).
@ Some Gal Thank you.
@ cloudiah I gladly accept your hugs. I’m going to try to broach the subject with some of these friends face-to-face next time I see them. It’s heartening to hear that you’ve been able to reach some people.
Let’s hope that future women gamers (like maybe this girl) won’t have to explain to their friends why sexism is bad.
Sylocat: You’re right, Reddit in general is being WAY more civil than I would have expected. But I found male disposability in r/games!
::fist bumps from your sad sister::
😉
Having the sexism-in-video-games discussion goes like this, every time: No, there isn’t any sexism in gaming. -> That’s not sexism. -> So what? There are things that aren’t sexist. -> But I like things this way. -> Prove to me that sexism is even a bad thing.
When I have to stop and explain “sexism is bad, mmkay” … There’s a problem.
I’m not sure if I really want to do that scavenger hunt. I find enough faith-destroying comments without actively looking for them specifically. I don’t even come to ManBoobz so much for the hateful vitriol, but more for the mockery of it and the uplifting/hilarious comments from the awesome regulars. Plus the kitties and other cute stuff.
Hah, instead of spending all her time criticizing/attacking videogames INTENDED FOR A MALE TARGET AUDIENCE, why she just put her money where her mouth is and create/support videogames INTENDED FOR A FEMALE TARGET AUDIENCE. This another reason is why I stopped sympathizing with American Liberals long ago, while it’s the duty/responsiblity of the Government/Public Sector to take care of you, because you are paying the taxes/fees that are the lifeblood of the State, it’s not the obligation/job of the Big Business/Private Sector to cater to your audience if you’re not profitable enough for their bottomline. They are a business after all, not a charity. Why does it seem that it’s only the (White American) girls who always demand to be let into the boys-only clubhouse instead of making their own girls-only clubhouse, eh?
They basically have no response when challenged on the fact that gender is based on biology, and not just a social construct. Look at Anita’s entire Youtube archive. Is there even one vid there that’s actually a misogyny issue? Like most “cultural criticism”, it’s little more than a list of whines.
Oh and, sex sells. Deal with it.
This lovely Kotaku commenter, Torbrex, should be nominated for the “Yeah, you’re totally not an irrational sexist looking for any excuse to smear Sarkeesian. I totally believe you.” Award.
Oh look Abnoy is entering himself into the contest, how convenient for us. Don’t worry Abnoy, we will be voting shortly and you will be given more than a fair chance to win.
By speaking out against it, pressuring marketers not to use it, etc. it we’re dealing with it. Or by “deal with it” do you mean “bow your head and accept the status quo?”
The kyriarchy’s gonna be a thing of the past soon enough. Deal with it.
But I don’t want to exclude the girls from my clubhouse! Why would I do that? It’s not like they have cooties. Not to mention, I also want to play games in which women are fully fleshed out characters rather than just a heteronormative prize to be collected.
Has anyone ever bought a mainstream game (as in not a game that is actually porn) because it was sexy? I mean I think Kratos is one sexy dude, but I wouldn’t play God of War if it weren’t a fab game at the same time.
Abnoy makes a good point. After all, why would a feminist ever want to examine or critique media directed primarily towards a male audience? It just makes no sense. Women should just set up their own parallel society in a separate dimension if they’re so unhappy with Man Things.
You mean like those fenced segregated camps they were talking about before? Yeah, those sounded superfun.
LOL, “speaking out”.
Feel like a grassroots hero yet?
Hierarchy and all its implications are here to stay. If not the same hierarchy today, then a different sort tomorrow. Think you can fight the universal male sex drive, and market force that comes with its demands? Go ahead and try. Once you realize the world isn’t made entirely of simpering, pampered white “men”, you will learn to bow down and accept the status quo.
Oh and, don’t use made-up words.
Abnoy reminds me of Will Turner from “Pirates of the Carribean” when he tells Jack Sparrow “in a fair fight. I’d kill you.” and Sparrow replies “Then that’s not much incentive for me to fight fair, now is it?”
We’re not gonna’ unilaterally disarm, Abnoy. We’ll make and criticize games at the same time because fuck you, making the world a better place is more important than following rules you’re clearly just making up as you go along.
Okay, so guys are only playing video games with their penises? You are a slave to your sex drive and your sex drive is a slave to shallow consumerism? The whole brain thing is just an overrated counterweight for your cock?
Straight guys are weird.
and LOL, made up words. *coughcoughcoughmisandrycoughcough*
Khantron said:
“By speaking out against it, pressuring marketers not to use it, etc. it we’re dealing with it. Or by “deal with it” do you mean “bow your head and accept the status quo.”
Also, by speaking out about it the design companies know that women are interested in playing and will spend money on their product in order to do so, which, of course, means more sales for them. The male players who seem to think they are entitled to keep women out are soon likely to find that the companies are (of course) out to make a profit and will sell to anyone with the money. The players don’t have control over who buys the product and so can’t keep women out no matter how much they threaten and whine.
Of course. Men are more than capable of self-control, and aren’t so feeble-minded that they’ll buy anything advertised by a sexy figure. At least according to my philosophy, a philosophy that unlike yours doesn’t despise men.
All words are made-up. Dictionaries don’t grow on trees, you know.
You’re all sharing the same one?
I make awesome comics that bring joy to the world. Am I allowed to complain about sexist stuff, or only sexism in comics?
Also, these male players may only be a vocal minority I’m quite sure there are plenty of other players who would be quite happy to move over and make room, the same way they did with roleplaying games in the early 1980s.
Yeah, any sensible person would see that the more people enjoying a medium, the more people paying for it, the more of it you get. Who could complain about more games getting made? I know I go through times where there isn’t a single new game I’m interested in and wish there were more.
Men have sex drives, therefore Princess Peach can’t be a playable character. The logic chain seems to be missing some links here.
Kim:
Exactly and the next thing you know they’re catering to women too. I really hope they’re keeping up with Anita’s vids because it looks like she’s going to lay it all out for them. We play and have fun with each other and the grown up guys, the companies make a nice profit and the entitled manchildren just keep right on whining but nobody pays them any mind.
After all it’s foolish to give way to childish tantrums.
I have like video games just as much as my brother. And I’ve spent far more buying the systems and the games. I bought the Gameboy Advance as soon as it came out: bought the puzzle games and the pokemon games for it. I bought a gamecube and a ton of games when that system came out too. I bought the PS2 as soon as I saved enough to buy it. And bought accessories and games for it too. The problem is there aren’t enough games that I want to play. I bought an xbox and I’m considering buying PS4 or and xbox 720 and which one I buy will depend heavily on the games I see for the systems.
I play pc games too.
I know plenty of female gamers and male ones too. Sex appeal isn’t everything. I want characters I can relate too. It is hard when I always have to play a male character.
Xiaobaobao said:
“Hierarchy and all its implications are here to stay. If not the same hierarchy today, then a different sort tomorrow. Think you can fight the universal male sex drive, and market force that comes with its demands? Go ahead and try. Once you realize the world isn’t made entirely of simpering, pampered white “men”, you will learn to bow down and accept the status quo.”
You really think that the “universal male sex drive” can overcome 1. The profit motive of the design companies 2. women with money to spend on their product and 3. Rational men who actually kinda like having woman players around?
Market forces flow to where the money is and if that’s with women then that’s where it will go.
You can burble all you like about about male sexuality and how unstoppable it is but it doesn’t get to chose who plays computer games. Only people’s wallets can do that.
Think about the car market. Originally it was aimed all at men, but then most families had one car and companies realized that there was still money to be had by targeting women.
Sometimes companies don’t realize where there is money to made initially.
Nope, we play games for fun. The sex appeal just makes it all the much better.
Why so strawman, WeeBoy? Are you having trouble being rational? It’s okay. Even though I never said misandry, I’ll entertain you.
Here, look up misandry then “kyriarchy”.
http://www.merriam-webster.com
http://dictionary.reference.com/
Checkmate.
“making the world a better place”. Hey look, the femmi has a superhero complex.
Sorry, most men aren’t stupid enough to forego buying a game just because there’s are scantily glad women in it. Not even white men. In fact, neither are most women. Of course, you could be forgiven for imagining that when you live in a bubble of western liberalism. If anything, ridiculous Duke Nukem styles of sexualization are only opposed because its male consumers find the approach outdated and hamfisted. So please give the credit where it’s due – to the men.
But by all means ladies, consume more games. You wanna talk money? The rise of the pragmatic, politically incorrect East and its legions of consumers will crush your precious white liberal sympathizers. How long do you think you can maintain your moral luxuries while your economy declines against the world’s? See David’s fat face? That’s what the past will look like.
Oh and just to clear up any confusion: We do understand your trivial concerns. We just don’t care about them. See also: South America, India, Southeast Asia. Not a single fuck is given in any of those places.
No, the internet makes it easier to objectify and sexualize women every day. And probably men too. Now we happen to think that opposing western feminism is more important than whining about sexual imagery, but if it upsets you so much then go ahead, howl and whine to your white enablers. See if the rest of the world cares.
“Hierarchy is always going to be around, no matter what form it’s in, so quit challenging this one and just accept it!”
Hahaha!
Xiabaoboobie, you seem to be forgetting that you’ll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes!
In other clueless asshat news, there was a panel about Reddit at SXSW that seems to have garnered some controversy:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/reddits-victim-complex
Panelists include Rebecca Watson of Skepchick and Adrian Chen of “outed that guy who set up the jailbait section on reddit” fame. It’s a real full house of an article, as even Anthony Zarat makes an appearance.
If you’re so unconcerned about this, why are you trolling a feminist blog, hmm? Insecure much?