I’m still officially on my Man Boobz staycation, but I felt I needed to mention yet another example of a woman saying that men can stop rape … and getting rape threats in return.
Political analyst Zerlina Maxwell went on Sean Hannity’s show on Fox News earlier this week and made the terrible mistake of suggesting to a hostile audience that men aren’t really doing any favors to women by telling them to arm themselves against rapists. Instead, as Salon notes, she said this:
“I don’t think that we should be telling women anything. I think we should be telling men not to rape women and start the conversation there.” She told Hannity, “You’re talking about this as if it’s some faceless, nameless criminal, when a lot of times it’s someone you know and trust,” adding, “If you train men not to grow up to become rapists, you prevent rape.”
Indeed, increased rape awareness has contributed to a dramatic decrease in rape over the last thirty years.
But apparently a lot of men were shocked – shocked! – that a woman would suggest that their patronizing advice was less likely to prevent rape than rape prevention education aimed at the demographic group that is responsible for the overwhelmng majority of rapes. That is, men.
So, naturally, the angriest of these men decided they would show Maxwell just how wrong she was … by threatening her with rape on Twitter.
Here’s just one example:
Rape culture in action.
Maxwell’s supporters have stepped up to defend her and her remarks, and have started a hashtag — #TYZerlina — to continue the discussion. If you’re on Twitter, join in .
Here’s the Fox News segment in question featuring Maxwell:
Which is, according to some statistics, what happens to 70% of people who buy guns for home or personal defense. Gun advocated will argue that these people need better training, and I agree to a point, but it’ll still be a stupid and ineffective idea for rape prevention.
And I wonder if the “protect yourself with a gun” crowd realizes that if their plan is effective, more people will die. In their heads, the guns will only be used on dangerous criminals who deserve to die, which makes it OK. Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-women defending themselves against rapists, but (1) I would prefer it if we didn’t have to and (2) I don’t think adding to the body count is the way to solve rape.
When you tell people in this culture to arm themselves and be prepared to kill, you end up with a bunch of George Zimmermans and the rest of us pray we won’t be the next Trayvon Martin. I don’t want to live there, thanks.
@wordsp1nner
Is there anything Legos can’t stop? 🙂 My sister and I had a large Rubbermaid tub half-full when we were kids and we would take over half the living room with them. I don’t think anyone ever attempted to walk through it more than once. (People were not so careful with our carefully arranged Barbie “houses.”) Dollhouse furniture is probably about as painful as Legos, but you lose the furniture in the process.
(I mentioned the Lego curse to my mom and she responded with a long list of equally painful children’s toys. I feel a little bad for her feet now.)
In my house, it is sewing machine bobbins, which one of my cats likes to chase. They are clear plastic and very small and they break when you step on them, sending the ragged edges up into your feet.
@emilygoddess
Their list of people who deserve to die doesn’t look at all like mine. I find the idea that it is right to kill someone as soon as they enter your home without permission terribly frightening. (I have accidentally gotten off on the wrong floor and tried to enter someone else’s apartment. If their door had been unlocked, I probably would have stepped in before figuring it out. I don’t think I should have been shot for that. And, of course, if they missed, there are a lot of other people a bullet can hit in an apartment building.)
“(I mentioned the Lego curse to my mom and she responded with a long list of equally painful children’s toys. I feel a little bad for her feet now.)”
Avoid stepping on matchbox cars! (And similar toy cars I’d imagine) I mentioned this Lego curse to my mother, she replied by telling me how she stepped on one of my cousin’s matchbox cars, snapped an axel and the thing skewered her foot.
Also, those metal toy planes? Do not leave them outside over the winter, they can end up wing up sticking in mud and holy fuck did that hurt. Mind, I once stepped on a nail and thought it was a Lego lance because they’re that bloody painful.
/recounting of toy injuries
Sorta on topic, ish, I fell up the stairs last night, I have a lovely green line on that not-knee bit just below the knee. Stupidity should be painful right? >.<
@wordsp1nner
We have Perler beads everywhere and they aren’t that painful to step on the first time, but they stick to your foot and you get to step on them again in the same spot. (And if you don’t realise what has happened, again and again.) Luckily, our cat finds them completely boring so they mostly stay under the chair I work from. Some roll though and then travel by foot all over the apartment.
And what about the bathroom? Am I safe when in the tub or should I keep my gun close at hand there too in case someone bursts in on me? When did life turn into a Western? Do I get a good soundtrack?
@Argenti
No it shouldn’t! My sympathies on your knee-area injury. That area is a particularly bad one to injure ime. (Not like there are good areas to injure, but there are less bad ones.)
@Some Gal – I hope it’s clear I don’t think all “dangerous criminals” deserve to die! I just want to make that extra-clear.
@emilygoddess
I understood and think you were prefectly clear. I was just pointing it out more explicitly. (Especially how much the “just shoot them” attitude fails if you live around other people, which most people do.)
I know one. “It promotes promiscuity” was his exact phrasing. His daughter is 7, so maybe he’ll come around in a few years. We can only hope.
@drst “I guarantee you, the women in your life already know far, far more than you do about how dangerous the world is. They do not need you to educate them on what it’s like to be a woman in this world. If you genuinely care about them, shut up and listen to what they tell you rather than trying to assert your narrative about your protection over them.”
*applause* Beautifully stated!!
My mother wouldn’t let me get the vaccine for the same reason. Two years later she let me get birth control though, so… yeah. I think if Fox News hadn’t been ranting about it at the time, she would have let me.
(I ended up getting it by myself. Hooray for young adulthood.)
…But birth control was okay? That must have required some serious mental gymnastics.
@ katz I was really confused when she let me get birth control too, but mental gymnastics are my mother’s specialty. I love her very much, but I’d never have believed the amount of cognitive dissonance she could function with if I hadn’t grown up with her.
@katz, I’ve been meaning to ask for quite some time. Awhile back one of the MRAs posted a rant someplace about women’s makeup being the equivalent of war paint. Would you ask Pierre what is the official Canadian policy about women’s deceptive face paint?
It’s funny that Antz is achieving such notoriety on the internet, but sadly for him he seems to be more infamous than famous. Speaking of the HPV vaccine, I remember once here I pointed out that it actually protects boys too and Antz thought that was hilarious. He immediately went over to AVfM and made a comment about how a manboobzer thought boys could get cervical cancer. And then some poor lurker on AVfM actually replied to point out that boys could in fact get other kinds of cancers from the virus and should be vaccinated as well.
You want a comic about that?
@katz, why not? There must be a policy in such a civilized country to protect men from evil face-painting savage women on the prowl in their war paint, seeking to prey on their wallets and spermjack them, eh?
@katz, or anyone else who’s watched the Sarkeesian video: What did you think? I thought it was good, but I know so little about games and gaming that I’m not a good judge. Just curious…
@ drst
Most recently I lived in Missouri during the fallout from Sandra Fluke and Todd Aiken. I am not used to there being that many state level democrats. I agree that stupidity knows no political affiliation, and that anyone can put their foot in it. I am just very used to hearing Limbaugh-esque talking points regurgitated as though they were close to intelligent conversation. Such as Limbaugh’s defense of how Republicans don’t hate women, they take them out to dinner and buy them nice things. That one made my skin crawl. (And believe it or not, there was a time when I’d vote a split ticket. However, over the past few years I have found the republican party to be increasingly offputting.)
I would be curious about what the democrats said, so that i had more context. As i have said, I have only been skimming the news back home so i miss parts of it.
As for the more general subject of rape ….. I don’t have lot that I really feel I can contribute. The closest I have to a valid memory is from some time ago. Two women asked me to walk them to their car at night. I was confused. I am a nerdy wimpy guy. I pointed out that if someone attacked, I would be useless. Also, there were already two of them going. They responded by saying that the mere presence of a guy would deter a rapist and that women can be attacked even in groups. I walked them to their car, but still really don’t understand the fear they felt that night. for the record, I am agoraphobic. I am afraid of everyplace that is not my house. I can’t use my kitchen when one of my flatmates is in it. I still have no concept of what my friends’ fear of being raped felt like.
I have since studied sociology, and know more about the theoretical concepts involved. I know, that as many have pointed out, that they information they gave me was not really correct. I can approach it intellectually, and cite studies. Still, I can’t really approach the subject of rape as something that I feel on a personal level because I have not ever been afraid of being raped.
So, if I am more interested in the political posturing of the situation it is not that I am uncaring, I am afraid I would stick my foot in my mouth, as I at least realize that I have nothing personally to add of any real depth.
Here is a question to the group: What are the appropriate ways for men to oppose rape culture? Conversely, are there times where guys were well-meaning yet still bungled the discussion? I would appreciate feedback in how to participate in future conversations more productively.
Somehow my mind censored that bit out :/ Though I’m really not sure what unique qualities men would have, besides “identifies as a man”
owwwwwwww….. sympathy wince
owowowowowowowow. I really should stop reading everyone’s painful toy stories. More pain story time, though, my brother once stepped on a toothpick that skewered his foot.
that sounds pretty painful 🙁 My only weird foot story was when I went walking in the woods barefoot (yes, I am brilliant) and ended up with thorns all over the bottom of my feet, but it looked more painful than it was, because mostly they were just stuck in the callouses.
@argenti artheri
I hope your knee feels better soon.
@katz
🙁 Hopefully there’s someone else there (mom, other dad, however their family works) to help. Like, idk how could anyone think getting (forget what Cervical? cancer) is a good way to stop promiscuity? Do they not care about their kids? ugh. And why does he even care that much about his daughter’s future sex life? it’s like really, dude?
/sorry for the rant.
@cloudiah
what are the affects of HPV on boys? I’ve never heard and kind of curious. (if you know).
(sorry again if I’m butting in. For some reason whenever I comment I feel like I’m butting in XD)
I was also in a bathroom when a man attempted to assault me — in the shower. My college was in a small town and had the TERRIBLE PRACTICE of leaving our dorm buildings unlocked during daylight hours, which lead to lots of attempted rapes, rapes, burglaries, etc. For the record, our bathrooms had curtains to the showers. We couldn’t lock them if we wanted to. I was lucky — my attacker chickened out when I screamed at him. But several other women on campus were not so lucky when they were attacked by a different man. The college didn’t even inform us that people were being raped until he’d assaulted three different women. And they only locked the dorm buildings for a few weeks after that before they were leaving them unlocked again.
And of course those are just the stranger rapes. I can’t count the women I knew who’d been assaulted by their boyfriends, by their supposed friends, etc. And colleges continue to hide the incidence of assault on campus, conduct bogus “administrative hearings” rather than take these CRIMES to a court of law, and generally make it extremely difficult to be a woman going to college.
Prevents oropharyngeal (well, any parts of the mouth and throat) and genital warts and cancers in boys.
I’ll add it to the queue. Are we thinking another embassy call inquiring about makeup laws in Canada, or maybe he runs into one ranting in the makeup section of a pharmacy or something?