I’m still officially on my Man Boobz staycation, but I felt I needed to mention yet another example of a woman saying that men can stop rape … and getting rape threats in return.
Political analyst Zerlina Maxwell went on Sean Hannity’s show on Fox News earlier this week and made the terrible mistake of suggesting to a hostile audience that men aren’t really doing any favors to women by telling them to arm themselves against rapists. Instead, as Salon notes, she said this:
“I don’t think that we should be telling women anything. I think we should be telling men not to rape women and start the conversation there.” She told Hannity, “You’re talking about this as if it’s some faceless, nameless criminal, when a lot of times it’s someone you know and trust,” adding, “If you train men not to grow up to become rapists, you prevent rape.”
Indeed, increased rape awareness has contributed to a dramatic decrease in rape over the last thirty years.
But apparently a lot of men were shocked – shocked! – that a woman would suggest that their patronizing advice was less likely to prevent rape than rape prevention education aimed at the demographic group that is responsible for the overwhelmng majority of rapes. That is, men.
So, naturally, the angriest of these men decided they would show Maxwell just how wrong she was … by threatening her with rape on Twitter.
Here’s just one example:
Rape culture in action.
Maxwell’s supporters have stepped up to defend her and her remarks, and have started a hashtag — #TYZerlina — to continue the discussion. If you’re on Twitter, join in .
Here’s the Fox News segment in question featuring Maxwell:
On Dawkins – or else he is so utterly lacking in empathy/fixated on his hatred of religion that he really does think any religious upbringing is automatically more harmful than any sexual abuse.
I hope he’s not that obtuse, but he emerges badly whichever way it goes. It was a grotesque thing to say and only diverted attention from the form of abuse he was supposed to be highlighting.
WTF? hellkell’s statement is accurate and evidence for it is linked-to above.
The Dear Muslima thing particularly irritated me because really, what kind of dumbass would think that Muslim women don’t mind being sexually harassed and/or cornered in elevators by strange men? So either he knows that they would be just as upset by that and he doesn’t care because using them as a tool to smack down feminists is so much fun, or he doesn’t know, in which case…is he new to our planet?
Not to mention that he treats all Muslim women as if Islam is monolithic, and as if they all come from one culture. Even if we just looked at predominantly Muslim countries, women from, say, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia come from vastly different worlds. That’s before even bothering to acknowledge that Muslims live all around the world, in all sorts of countries. He really takes the ugliest aspects of Islam (or any other religion) as if they describe everything about it, no variation.
There’s also the fallacy – I don’t know its name – of talking as if one can only look at one problem at a time, or as if the existence of worse abuses means the one in question (sexual harrassment) should be ignored? He seems to be stuck on the idea of putting everything in hierarchies, pigeonholing people’s lives and experiences as important or not important according to his own narrow perspective.
I think the biggest problem, and it’s one you see a lot with privileged white guys, is that he was trying to use a less privileged group of people to support a position that he knew would be unsupportable if he just spoke from his own perspective. So he tried to use Muslim women as a rhetorical shield against criticism, and he did it in a way that provided no benefit to the Muslim women themselves at all. That’s a shitty, cowardly thing to do, especially when your only goal is winning an argument.
@marinerachel: I am so sorry to hear about your experiences. That is horrible.
I am glad someone was able to be a voice for you and for other people like you. It’s unfortunate that it had to be someone who has failed horribly on several other fronts, but that doesn’t mean he is wrong about everything (as you know, obviously). The reason I used to like him when I first read his work in junior high/high school is that he gave me words to describe some of my experiences that I didn’t have words for before. The truth of what he said still resonates with me. I just can’t continue to support him as a figure for the reasons you and others have outlined.
Cassandra – and the idea of shutting up and reading what women had to say about the matter of harassment and all that can go with it would never occur to him. You couldn’t get a more mildly worded comment than Rebecca Watson made, but Dawkins had to go and join the shrieking chorus attacking her. If one can’t say “guys, don’t do that,” presumably one can’t say anything, ever. Which makes his claiming of Muslim women as a shield even more sickeningly hypocritical, because he’s a misogynist himself, however he’d huff and puff and deny it.
I’ll give him this though – he’s not as big a shitbag as Hitchens was.
On the other hand, Hitchens was occasionally funny, whereas Dawkins is about as much fun as a root canal. Every time he tries to make a joke I cringe in vicarious embarrassment.
In other news, I sent an email to my boss/some coworkers telling them I wasn’t well enough to come in (after waking up in a panic at 4 and stewing about it for an hour). Now I’m going to freak out about my job for about an hour, after which time I think I might try to get a little more sleep.
/Viscaria feels sorry for herself and shares with others.
I looked through my email history and I have only been working for 5 months and I already have like 5 sick days that is ABSURD most places only give you 3 sick days for the year. I’m gonna get fired or I’ll lose the respect of my management team and they won’t trust me or value my work as highly. Or maybe the combination of brain-scrambling illness, 8 hours of sleep in a 48-hour period, and my existing depression and anxiety are lying to me. I keep changing my mind.
Viscaria I’ve never called in sick and if I did I think folks would freak.
Honestly, even if I was sick for a week I don’t think I would get fired they love me here. My only comfort in life is job security.
I wish you luck Viscaria.
SORRY FOR FEELINGS DUMPING.
I’m going to go back to sleep now and then by the time I wake up everyone else in my life will be awake and I can bug them instead of you guys ;), after all they signed up for it and you did not. I bet my mom will bring me some lunch.
Viscaria sleep well and feel better when you wake.
Sleep has amazing restorative powers.
And jealous of your mom bringing you lunch.
Poxy/Mr. Al: do fuck off. Why are you here? Are your boundaries that bad, that you feel you can ignore when a group of people finds you tedious and unwelcome? Little shit.
I love mayo and will split it with cloudiah. In other condiment news, I found a chipotle sandwich sauce at World Market that is sooooo good. I made scrambled eggs with that, cheddar, and chives last week, OMG heavenly.
The only condiment that I really do not care for besides ranch dressing (come to TX and see the insane varieties of ranch available, holy shit), is nuc mam–that Vietnamese fish sauce. I think it’s the smell that puts me off.
Cool, you can have my mayo and I’ll steal all your nuoc mam.
It’s a deal.
I like mayonnaise* and decaf instant coffee**, so… uhm… NYEEERRR.
(*luckily it is very easy to get vegan mayo in this neck of the woods or I may have gone a bit spare.)
(**I’m allergic to caffeine and I was allowed it as a kid with loads of milk and sugar, so it’s not like I’m under any notion that it’s actually proper coffee or a substitute for it, I just see it as like hot chocolate or something. I wouldn’t serve it to someone asking for a cup of coffee.)
Dang, so poxy’s started accusing people of hallucinating. That’s not creepy at all. /sarcasm
@joanimal
that sounds really yummy.
@marinerachel
sorry for implying that 🙁 I was letting my anger about it cloud that, and I didn’t respond appropriately. I think I was also treating it like everyone who grew up in christian households grew up in mine. I’m sorry for dismissing the fact that it could be hurtful.
gah. I mean, I believe that it happens, it’s just icky. ‘the men who raped her were the victims’? wtf.
I’m not trying to yell at you, I’m just ranting about the belief. it’s like…gaaah.
Newbie moment, who’s Hitchens?
@viscaria
I hope you’re feeling better soon 🙁 Three sick days a year is ridiculous.
@Marie-
Christopher Hitchens was a British social commentator and writer who passed away a couple years ago. He was known for being a witty atheist with a pretty merciless streak. But he also had some really problematic views on women, torture and race, and reacted pretty poorly to anyone ever suggesting so. His commentary was pretty widely republished and covered a huge range of topics; you might have read something by him and not known it.
Also, good luck, Viscaria. Being sick is no fun.
@reginaldgriswold
Thanks for the answer. His name just wasn’t familiar.
@hellkell:
hellkell, you were much nicer once. OK, guess I have to accept that… can’t go back in time, can’t go back when Amanda Fucking Palmer wasn’t ableist or “cassandra says mr al” wasn’t a google suggestion.
But why all this MRAL suspicions? Seriously, I’m disappointed… British shrinks must suck!
Hitchens is somebody who died without renouncing his atheism (there’s a chance Pratchett will do that). He also was bisexual and claimed that only women slept with him because men found him too ugly. Also he thought that religion poisons EVERYTHING and that women aren’t funny.
@Poxy
Uh huh. Totally believable. I’m sure that suggestion has nothing to do with your personal search history. (If it was suggested at all.)
Why don’t you go away if you realize that you’ve alienated everyone and there’s no going back in time to make you less of a jackass in the first place?
Hey, if nothing else I guess he’s proof that hope springs eternal.
No, without cookies, why don’t you try it? You have to type “cassandrasays”, then it’ll appear. Proves how obsessed you all are that even Google notices!
PoxyAl has gone from stupid to creepy. Not a good look.