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I’m taking a break. So here’s a fantastic Bollywood dance number.

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Hey, everyone. So I sat down to write something about this horrific discussion of domestic violence on The Spearhead – which some of the Man Boobz commentariat have already started discussing here – and, well, I just couldn’t do it.

I need to step back a bit from this blog for a little while to clear my head and maintain my sanity. So I’m going to take a bit of a break – maybe just a few days, maybe a week – and post nothing but interesting videos and other things having nothing whatsoever to do with misogyny or the manosphere. You all, of course, can treat this any any other thread as a totally open thread to discuss whatever you want, including the regular Man Boobz topics of misogyny and general MRA shitlordery.

I’m going to start off with the dance number that first got me hooked on Bollywood music some years ago. This is from the 1998 film Dil Se, a drama about love and terrorism. But in Bollywood, even serious dramas have dance numbers, and Dil Se’s dance numbers are gorgeous and a little surreal.

The music from the film is by A.R. Rahman, a prolific and popular Bollywood music director best known in the US for doing the music for Slumdog Millionaire.

And  yes, that is Bollywood megastar Shah Rukh Khan dancing on top of a moving train without any safety harness or stunt double or CGI trickery. (Well, there are a couple of brief bits where a double might have been used.) Enjoy!

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Some Gal Not Bored at All

@Marie

Rant away! Talking to parents about childhood stuff can be so awful and hard and awkward. Best of luck if you ever decide to bring it up.

katz
7 years ago

Well, I’m going to stop here. I don’t think you should get to decide the top priorities of an organization you’re not a part of, nor do I think you should be the judge of the biggest threats to a community you’re not a part of. You’re just reminding me more and more of every other person who thinks they should get to decide what other people should do, and, well, once you’ve put yourself in that position, there’s no arguing with that.

ellex24
ellex24
7 years ago

Marie – you’re not weird. Death is hard. Everyone deals with it in their own way, and it’s normal and appropriate to go through different stages of feeling about it, and those feelings don’t always make sense.

It’s one of the reasons I think having pets is so important for children. It’s hard every time one of my beloved cats (or dogs) dies, but I’ve been through it enough times, both as a child and as an adult, that I feel comfortable accepting it and dealing with it, and I’m willing to take however much time I get with each pet with the knowledge that their lives are likely to be much shorter than mine. And when friends and family die, I have those experiences to help me deal with it.

ellex24
ellex24
7 years ago

katz and Some Gal, I’m going to agree with both of you.

Churches do have an obligation to support their congregation and their community. That’s the basic reason for having churches in the first place: to gather and support the community (you can add the actual religion in as well if you want, but the societal purpose of organized religion is really community support).

But the decision on how, and on what issues, to show that support are the sole decision of the individual church and its congregation, not the rest of the community or someone on the other side of the country (or the world). Issues are infinite – resources are not.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@some gal

I’m taking that as an opportunity to rant XD (if anyone doesn’t want to read this, there’s a rant coming up)

Basically, the whole thing went down when I was in sixth grade, and I stopped going to school and was just sleeping/hiding in my room the whole day (one of the reasons I think I was depressed too back then, because that’s how I am now when my depression’s acting up). My parents were taking me to therapists a bunch, trying to do whatever, but it never really worked.

I should mention I really wasn’t being a good kid, we were getting into fights where everyone was yelling and screaming, and I’d kicked a whole in my wall at one point :/

Last therapist I saw before I had to go to kiddie asylum (which I think he actually worked for kiddie asylum, since they were in the same building) it was taking an hour, and both my parents were there. Actually, thinking back on it, I’m wondering if they were planning on trying to talk me to enter willingly *ick*. Anyway, after we’d been waiting for around 20 minutes I said I wanted to go home if the therapist didn’t show up in an hour, which they agreed to*

*spoiler space, it didn’t work.

So my dad took me into the therapist’s room while idk what was happening, and we were having a stand down in where since he was forcibly keeping me in the room I was debating trying to physically fight him to get out. *ick*

And they had a cop come in, so it was pretty much go along or get tazed by the cop (I assumed it’d be just forcibly removed, but one of the other kids talked about getting tazed when he tried to escape, so that’s my call in retrospect.)

I got locked in one of those actual padded walls (with a camera up top, because every time I hit the wall because I was frustrated they used the intercom to tell me to stop). I also got yelled at for not being able to get to sleep when they wanted, it’s like, hello, I was just sleeping all day, schedules don’t adjust automatically.

The whole thing only lasted a week in that place, and another week (two weeks?) in a place I had to go for half a day after, plus like a year+ of therapy and some time on the meds (which I stopped taking once I got out of kiddie asylum, so technically they were just getting wasted).

Sorry for dumping this all on you guys I just …gaah. rant. bad time in childhood. I mean, what kind of parent sees an eleven year old is too miserable to go to school and thinks that is the best solution?

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@ellex

thanks 🙂 though part of the reason I feel weird is because I felt better about death at 12 than 18.

ellex24
ellex24
7 years ago

part of the reason I feel weird is because I felt better about death at 12 than 18.

Also normal. Much, much more normal than you think. At 18, you understand more and have more experience than you did at 12. You have more awareness of the potential consequences of death. It’s natural to feel differently, and natural to have some bad feelings about it.

I’m 38, and it’s still going on for me. I’m always learning new things about myself, changing and adjusting the way I feel about things. My mother is 67 and she’s still doing it, too.

Honestly? The fact that you are feeling things, thinking about things, questioning things, makes you a lot more mature than a lot of people I’ve met who seem to have put themselves in mental and emotional stasis at some point and never grow any further.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@katz

You are right, I am not part of these organizations. I left precisely because they didn’t meet my priorities. It is impossible to know whether or not, had churches lived up to my expectations, I would be a member today. I might have become an atheist anyway, I might not.

Chriches have a lot of rights that other groups do not have (no other group gets to appoint members who act as counselors without state approval for example). Those rights should come with extra responsibilities or they should go through the same approval processes that all other group have to go through to get them. If a church is no different than a PAC, so be it, but the law and community norms should reflect that.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@ellex

Thanks 🙂 I really didn’t know how other people felt about it. Mostly when I talk to my mom and sister they seem pretty cool with the idea that we’re all gonna die, so I felt like a worry rat XD

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@Marie

That is horrible. I was a pretty “bad” kid, too. I beat up my sister a lot and once dented a wall using a plate as a frisbee (I was angry). In retrospect, this was probably all a really normal reaction to depression and mania, but it was treated as me being a spoiled brat. I used to have terrible anxiety and would sit in the car rather than go into strange places. Luckily (or perhaps “luckily”) my mom is big on “acting normal,” which committing her eldest daughter would not have worked so well for. So, I saw a couple of therapists and none really thought anything was majorly wrong (in part because they weren’t very good and in part because I had learned the “acting normal” thing really well).

More hugs. 🙂

Freemage
Freemage
7 years ago

Katz: The key difference here is that while I don’t have the right to set another group’s agenda–but I sure as heck can judge a group according to how well it fulfills the agenda it claims to support. If radfems were showing up at the funerals of murdered transwomen, with mocking signs, etc, I damn well WOULD expect mainstream feminist organizations in the same area to show up and counter-protest, or at least reach out to the family in some way to offer consolation and make it clear that the protestors did not speak for all feminists.

As it is, when TERFs start posting transphobic bullshit on the internet, mainstream feminists (at least, all the ones I follow) do, in fact, call them out on it, in that same medium.

And of course, this underlines the false equivalence you’re making–TERFs, even the worst of them, don’t make a habit of attacking the families of transwomen at funerals. The level of offense is being matched by its challengers, and those challengers are the ones I choose to support.

The WBC protests, though, were carried out in the name of the same deity that these other churches all claim to serve. Furthermore (and this is key), those churches all claim to be moral and spiritual leaders–to have a greater insight into what is ‘good’, and thus the right to have the authority to teach it to their flock (not to mention, the reason that they say that others should join their churches). And so yes, the WBC and how they responded to it (or rather, didn’t), is a fair test of that claim.

The whole justification for highly organized religion is that the whole is supposed to be greater than the sum of its parts. If even one of the larger churches in America had taken as part of its mission to ensure that the more hateful actions of the WBC folks were countered as effectively as possible, then those protests would be history by now–or at least, we’d have constant news stories about how “The WBC made another failed effort to disrupt a funeral again.”

And no, it wouldn’t have to be the top priority–frankly, WBC are so minor a group that countering them wouldn’t take much resources at all. One person to watch their protest announcements (they routinely let everyone know what they’re going to be up to), and contact a local branch of the same church. That church then calls a few others (if the church is part of an inter-faith council of some sort, this should be trivially simple). Then they reach out to the family, and ask if they’d like support. If the answer is yes, then ten times as many ‘true Christians’ as WBC’ers show up, with large sheets designed to screen the mourners from the trolls. But not one of the churches decided to step forward and do so.

katz
7 years ago

Freemage, you’re just repeating the same nonsense somegal already said and I already said I wasn’t going to keep replying. You guys just both want to wank about churches because you hate them so much and I guess you can knock yourself out, even if you haven’t got anything meaningful to say.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@ somegal 🙁 sorry about your childhood too. Hugs accepted, and hugs for you to if you want them.

Ranting about this on the internet (sowwyz *blushes*) has made me realize I probably should talk to my parents about it, since I’m still not completely over it, but that’ll probably go down much better with my mom than my dad. She was better about the whole thing back then, we have good communication now, ect

/thinking out loud

ellex24
ellex24
7 years ago

Freemage – My impression of the reaction of most of the major organized religions in the US to the WBC is much like that of the NRA to any and all types of gun control: it’s a slippery slope that will lead to a complete ban.

The NRA and it’s supporters are genuinely convinced that even a small amount of gun control legislation will eventually lead to all guns being illegal. The major churches are similarly convinced that if they step in to block or protest another church, it will eventually lead to similar restrictions on them.

The ACLU tends to feel similarly about free speech.

I think the position of the NRA and the major churches is ridiculous. I’m not certain about the ACLU…it can be fine line between freedom of speech and incitement.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@Marie

Again, my best wishes. I hope you find out what you need to know.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@some gal

Thanks 🙂

Some Gal Not Bored at All

If you aren’t a member of the NRA, you shouldn’t criticize how they accomplish their goals or their priorities.

If you aren’t a member if the ACLU, you shouldn’t criticize how they accomplish their goals or their priorities.

If you aren’t a member of the Catholic Church, you shouldn’t criticize how they accomplish their goals or their priorities.

If you aren’t a member of the Republican Party, you shouldn’t criticize how they accomplish their goals or their priorities.

I fail to see how this isn’t nonsense. Unless, of course churches are unique. In which case, I think that the justifications for that uniqueness should be open to scrutiny.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

So, I grew up in a cult. A right-wing fundamentalist cult. I’m pretty well done with all religion.

But, um, freemage, … even the hatemongers that raised me condemned the WBC.

And it doesn’t take much time to find plenty of moderate christians calling them out.

You ever hear a rightwinger say ‘well if there are moderate Muslims, why aren’t they condemning the terrorists?’ While actively ignoring those that do?

I mean, seriously. The church that raised me was all ‘gays will destroy this country’ and they still condemned the WBCers. And there are denominations that are, y’know, okay with gay people.

The standard you’re holding the churches too–that if there were moderates, they could somehow shut down the WBC–is kind of ridiculous. How? Seriously, short of violence or intimidation, how?

I just–I don’t want to be the guy standing here defending organized religion, I really REALLY don’t, and I think there are plenty of valid complaints about religion in general, but the way you’ve chosen to go about it is kind of… well, icky.

So, I won’t be around to reply to anything until tomorrow. I have family stuff. Sorry.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@howardbann1ster

The issue, at least that I have, is that if the goal is condemnation, they aren’t really succeeding at doing that beyond their own congregations. Even putting a press release in the paper would be a fair bit more that most churches do.

The WBC is obviously hated by most everybody. But it is fairly easy to identify the groups who feel that condemnation is important enough that the wider world hear about it first-hand.

cloudiah
7 years ago

The WBC example just seems oddly specific to me. If I were religious, which I am not, I don’t think I could comfortably be a member of any church that didn’t reject, say, homophobia or other forms of bigotry. But I wouldn’t insist that rejection take a specific form like protesting WBC.

I feel like I am missing something in this discussion.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@cloudiah

If it helps, I also think churches should be more vocal about other churches enabling child abuse. (Not just the Catholic Church does that.) The WBC was Freemage’s example, but I can think of numerous cases of churches engaged in wrong-doing that other churches ignore.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

That should be ignore outside of their own congregations. I have no idea how much condemnation goes on inside the church, but I know very little goes on outside it.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

Also, and I kind of said this already so I’m not really expecting it to make a difference, but churches are different because 1) they claim to be and 2) they are treated differently by society at both a legal and social level. I think that expecting churches to uphold a higher standard of behavior is loving the idea of the church not hating it (if I had a dollar for everytime my trying to convey “it is such a beautiful idea, why not be upset that the reality is often ugly?” was called hatred, I could keep myself in cheap coffee forever). I think that, part of this higher standard is also holding each other accountable. I understand that churches don’t want to fight in public. I disagree that there are good seasons not to do so. I think churches that only look out for their own members fail at meeting this higher standard.

I would be willing to examine reasons why the WBC is not the major disruption to a community that I see them as. But, if they are a major disruption, I think churches that are members of a community so disrupted have a duty to minimize and mitigate that disruption. I think it is part if their mission statements implicitly (and explicitly in many cases).

In the case of child abuse, the disruption is also (to me) a major one. And I see churches as having a duty both to hold each other accountable as God’s representatives and to mitigate the harm by addressing the problem publicly.

(This is also very American Christian Organized Religion focused because it is what I know the most about and have – having been a member of many churches – thought the most about. I actually doubt it makes much of a difference, but would need to read more stating that these exact points apply to all organized religion. If it isn’t organized, it isn’t able to act as an organization and so none of this would apply. I think many Christians do a great job at publicly distancing themselves from other Christians who fail at meeting the standards they set for themselves. Sadly, their churches don’t.)

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

This is long, and going back a page, but I opened a can of worms and want to reply to it.

I had to go to bed because I was nodding off at the computer! It was lovely, it’s so nice to be able to sleep (chronic insomniac here).

Argenti, I fear you’re just going to have to back off and wait for real life to catch up to this dude (if it ever does – I’ve met senior citizens who haven’t learned jack-all in their lives). Frankly, it sounds like you’re banging your head against a brick wall.

I can kind of see where he’s getting this type of fail-logic, but in terms of real life and actual consequences and a smidgen of empathy, it doesn’t make sense.

Even if we just take death from violence versus death from natural causes: violence has a bigger fall-out in terms of emotional damage and consumption of resources than heart disease. And urgh, it makes me – and I’m not known for much in the way of sentimentalism – uncomfortable to look at it that way. But I’d rather see my mother die of heart disease than be shot by a mugger, even if she died instantly. If she died of heart disease, me, my brother and all our friends would be sad, but not traumatized by it. If she was shot, I’d be angry and sad, my brother and all our friends would be angry and sad, there’d be a police investigation, it would probably be on the news and people who didn’t even know my mom would be angry and sad and frightened, they’d be worried that there was some asshole out there who might kill more people…

Dying is important and natural, and I’m not just talking about consumption of resources and the natural limitations on the body. I think in the Western world at least, we’ve cultivated an obsession with preventing death at all costs that has made death, even those from natural causes, far more traumatic than it needs to be, both for the person who is dying and for their friends and family.

I love my kitties, each and every one of them. Due to my own personal issues with emotions, I probably love my cats more than I love most of the people in my life. But because I love them, my concern is for their physical and emotional well-being, not mine. And that includes letting them die when it’s time for them to die; helping them to die when their quality of life has degenerated past the point of the possibility of improvement; accepting the realistic limits of their lifespans; mourning them, and then going on to love other cats.

I see no reason why the same should not apply to humans.

Uber-short reply because this and the next reply overlap. But that (human trait) of giving weight to your sentimental thoughts? Apparently that’s emotion and you have to use pure logic and logic-bot says that disability before death is worse than sudden death. See below about fearing one versus the other.

@Argenti Aertheri

Gah on the preventing suicide w/ forced drugging. I mean, I don’t really have any amazingly thought out opinions on suicide, but it seems like if you want someone not to kill themselves you’d be much much much better giving them support and making them feel loved than… that.

re: transhumanism stuff

I can sort of understand where your jerk-ish friend is coming from, since I’ve got issues of ‘ohmigoddon’twannadie’ to, but those are mostly worse when my depressions acting up, since it’s like, ‘wait but this life sucks give me another’*. But the rest of it is just blah. (Actually all of it is blah, I just need to sort out my feelings on death…)

*fun time story. when I was first losing faith in god I was *also* terrified by eternity forever, since my brain just explodes around death, especially since the church (at least our church) had that funny things where one of the big no-no sins was turning your back on god or w/e. It’s like, I’m a decent person, I’m just not feeling it for him… :/ eh, church issues

sorry if this was a derail :/

OMGS don’t want to die so I’m going to be extra careful about the most common problems/causes of death? Hey, it’s your life, do wtf you want with it. But this ends the very goddamned second you start declaring what other people have to fear, especially with the implication that they have to act to minimize the things you think are more important than the things they fear.

Am I making sense? You’re allowed to fear whatever you like, reasonable or not (though you may want to see a psych if it interferes with your life…just not my psych >.<) What you aren’t allowed to do is insist that other people have to fear the things you fear, insist of the things they fear. Add in the “I’m right because I’m Less Wrong” and it ends up this disgusting mix of patronizing spinach and intellectualist tomatoes with a colonialist salad dressing (salad analogy cuz salad diner, sorry)

I think forced druggjng also requires a faith in both drugs working and human beings not lying that neither deserves. Personally, if I were forced to take drugs, I either be screaming about side effects (both felt and possible, but not happening) or thanking everyone for all the help and for making me all better now so that I could go home and stop taking them. Every single category of bipolar meds has been a failure for me and not just on the “they don’t fucking work very well as treatment” front. The daily anxiety attacks from Abilify are actually the best side effects of the lot. My reaction to antidepressants (which ime is all you get at a mental hospital and so would certainly get at some places if being FORCIBLY DRUGGED, even if you strongly suspect you have bipolar, because suicide = depression and they really aren’t set up to evaluate everyone well) is more suicidal thinking. So, basically, forcibly drugging would make suicide more likely for me. Fail at medicine.

Yeah, my semi-existent living will says ECT before antidepressants. Back to the more general topic, yeah, dude puts way too much faith in medication working. He treats science as a religion and thus no part of it could ever be wrong.

Marie — re: forced medication — fuck, I’m sorry. I can’t wrap my head around why people think that is acceptable. In any case, hugs are available if they’re welcome.

In general, I’m comfortable with death. We’re a collection of atoms in the end, space dust basically, and eventually we’ll return to space dust. I find this not just comforting, but strangely beautiful.

And yeah, baring either a brilliant argument, being too drunk, or unleashing my righteous fury on his ass…I’m done.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@Argenti

In general, I’m comfortable with death. We’re a collection of atoms in the end, space dust basically, and eventually we’ll return to space dust. I find this not just comforting, but strangely beautiful.

And yeah, baring either a brilliant argument, being too drunk, or unleashing my righteous fury on his ass…I’m done.

+1 on the comforting and beautiful.

As long as you are still enjoying yourself (for certain definitions of enjoying, I hope you know what I mean here), have at it. I certainly don’t mind reading about transhumanistic nonsense if you want to share. (Even when I go “GAH!”) I think there is no way he is gonna get it, but I don’t really know him.

BTW, how is the weather treating you? It has been vicious to Boston today and I am all achy. 🙁 Is it just us or is this a New England storm?

ellex24
ellex24
7 years ago

Argenti, I like your salad metaphor.

It would nice if I could just turn off my emotions, I often find them annoying and intrusive. But I also recognize that without feelings I would lack the ability to empathize, and lacking the ability to empathize makes me either a shitty human being or a human being with a serious mental illness.

The thing I always liked about the Vulcans of Star Trek was not that they don’t feel emotion, because they do. But they are trained to separate emotion from reason (NOT logic) and be able to understand when emotion clouds reason. This is dealt with very poorly on a lot of the tv episodes, and dealt with brilliantly in many of the books.

Your young man has a lot to learn. He also needs to get out of the house and interact with more people.

Dredging up my Latin…Argenti Aertheri means something like “silver sky”?

ellex24
ellex24
7 years ago

Hot buttered cider and rum for all! And I then I have to go, for I have shit to do before bed.

@Some Gal, I live in Pittsburgh. We were promised 4-6 inches of snow, got about 5 inches, and at least half of it had melted away by 4 pm. I’m just glad I don’t have to shovel anything.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@ellex

For some reason, knowing the effects are wider always makes me feel better about weather. It doesn’t make sense for more suffering to make me relieved. I am strange. I am also glad you didn’t have to shovel.

We’ve gotten snow and rain and hail today! And the wind is like out of an intensely claustrophobic Wuthering Heights adaptation. I almost fear I will start hearing “Cathy” in it. *shivers*

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Some Gal — it’s shitty out here, but not unbearably so. It sounds like it’s getting worse, but I wore my expensive leather boots out earlier without worrying about getting them wet.

And thanks, I may be back later with key points from his “argument” that are actually worth discussing, because I do think he was, at times, butting up against the side of having a point. Just doing it with an, um, spear head…fuck them and their ruining my pointy metaphor!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“Dredging up my Latin…Argenti Aertheri means something like “silver sky”?”

Yep! I typo’ed ætheri but find ærtheri easier to say (and only recently got an easy way to type æ) — I was going for something akin to how every cloud has a silver lining, but that’s long, and I couldn’t find anything for either cloud or lining that I didn’t hate. Also, alliteration, I loves it!

+1 internet for getting that!

And Pittsburgh got that much? The day the not-an-ex got back from LA? No wonder ze’s cranky!

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Whenever I think of Wuthering Heights I’m reminded of Dave Allen’s sketches, like the one where they’re running across the moor shouting “Heathcliff!” “Cathy!” When they finally meet, it’s “You’re not Heathcliff!” “You’re not Cathy!” “Oh, never mind …” and they fall into the grass anyway.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@The Kittehs’

That sounds hilarious. Frankly, not being Heathcliff and Cathy is probably happiest for everybody.

Peter
7 years ago
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

OMG that was perfect!

::dies::

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@Argenti Aertheri

Apparently that’s emotion and you have to use pure logic and logic-bot says that disability before death is worse than sudden death. See below about fearing one versus the other.

…. O_O That is so…bwuh. He said that? O_O

But this ends the very goddamned second you start declaring what other people have to fear, especially with the implication that they have to act to minimize the things you think are more important than the things they fear.

I know, I don’t think trying to tell other people to fear death or w/e (disabilty? suicided? everything he’s hit at this point?) is good, I emphasized a little with the fear of death. He’s way overblown it though, thinking other people should follow his example when they all have different fears. I also think the b/c of fear of death wanting to get download into a computer is a little over the top/ implausible, but that’s not directly affecting other people like the rest of his stuff.

I’m sorry if that sounded defensive, I mean, idk I’m having a hard time knowing how my tone is today.

Marie — re: forced medication — fuck, I’m sorry. I can’t wrap my head around why people think that is acceptable. In any case, hugs are available if they’re welcome.

Hugs accepted 🙂

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

Sorry for ranting/derailing about me again.

I think this is the thread I started angsting on? Anyway, I actually did get around to talking to my dad today. It went better than I expected, but not amazing. Apparently he did try to talk to the therapist him and my mom were seeing about it before sending me to kiddie asylum and she was the one who recommended it. I’m no therapist, but it seemed hiiiiighllly unprofessional to try to diagnose someone w/o meeting them, so I would love to tell her off.

They also bought some weird parenting books, and when I pressed him for what kind he said there was one called ‘the explosive child’ O_o which just sounds …. unreliable to me, but maybe that’s my ickiness getting in the way.

And the meds they were having me take were for bipolar stuff. :/

/sorry for dumping.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Marie —

I kind of paraphrased and summarized a shit ton of rage inducing stupidity, but this one is a direct quote:

And my 60 million figure includes all deaths every year, yes. A death is a death; why rate a death from violence as worse than a death from heart disease or cancer? I would wager that deaths from disease are not only more debilitating but also more painful and more expensive and more preventable than deaths from violence, so it’s quite possible that they matter more, if anything.

60 million dying per year means six Holocausts, or an entire World War II, every single year.

Yeah, that totally makes perfect sense…in a world where the death rate isn’t (eventually) 100%; where the things that a easiest to prevent should be prevented before the harder to prevent ones; where only the affected person matters, not their friends and family; and, capping off the stupid, where the holocaust is 1/6th as important as all those people dying every year from their bad bad cancer and heart disease inducing lifestyle habits!

“I’m sorry if that sounded defensive, I mean, idk I’m having a hard time knowing how my tone is today.”

No worries! And the hugs are free, take all you want!

Hilariously, I have both my iPad and Mac out just to sort through whether he had any debatable points. I really am too damned stubborn for my own good!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Dump away! Or at least, I’m the last person to have any standing to complain, I do it often enough XD

And yeah, diagnosing anyone with any consult, particularly a child, is squicky at best.

If you don’t mind, I have a question. That med, I’m assuming you don’t remember the name, but did you get periodic blood tests? …I need to double check something…

Sorry if that’s prying, I have most of a psych degree and my not-an-ex got one and is now a pharmacy student…plus I have my own medicine cabinet of psych drugs. My interest is piqued.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Argh! “There are so few transgender people I have a hard time caring about them getting murdered compared to the murders of poor people, who are far more numerous”

That’s a direct motherfucking do you have empathy at all quote.

I was really trying to format out the email stuff so I could read it all like a court transcript, and then THAT.

Marie
Marie
7 years ago

@argenti aertheri

*is squicked out by that guy* the holocoust one was bad enough but that last one O_O gah.

Yay for the hugs! *takes hugs and hoards hugs* …*names all the hugs* /is weird.

It’s not prying (at least for me). I don’t think I ever got a blood test for the med. :/ I may have had one when I entered the kiddie asylum, but none since then, or when I was supposed to be taking them. To be honest, even if you do get more pry-y I don’t mind, since you aren’t acting like I have to say it, and I’m also curious about what was going on. At least I got a little from my dad’s end but the whole thing was 7 years ago.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Seconding being squicked out by Mr Lives In The Cloud* Boy, with a side order of wtf at his wilful stupidity. Since when is caring about murders a democratic voting process, with the largest demographic getting empathy/sympathy simply because they’re the largest? That’s idiotic as well as fucking callous.

*pun intended

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Because raw numbers!! This is me taking a break from turning the 24 page transcript of that convo into a bullet point outline. I need that dancing goalposts gif, a print copy of derailing for dummies, a print out of my fallacy list, at least four highlighters, a tall glass of mango juice with about two shots of good vodka, a large bag of chocolate chips, and some way of making my ethics hurt less…the chocolate might work…

I’m collecting a separate list of “head mets wall” quotes, I’ll share whenever I finish. Maybe we can get enough mockery to rectify my ire.

I’m cranked out term papers and research reports the night before (don’t tell the not-an-ex, I did that with the research project we met on!) — but this? *screams*

Social justice issues are just divisions in the more important fight for economic equality! See, that’d be hilarious if said by a first year sociology student that just discovered Marx, especially so if it was between bong hits. Not so much by a college grad with a genius IQ.

Marie — I doubt it was lithium then, and I’d question giving anything else that’s traditionally used for bipolar disorder to a kid (well, I’d question lithium too, but at least we’ve been using it long enough to know wtf it does). Basically, if it was lithium and they weren’t doing blood tests, that’s dangerously stupid; if it was anything else, I have serious questions about giving it to a child (mine for example? Risk of DEATH RASH, a condition that is, in general, more likely in kids) — either way, I consider your decision to stop taking it to be smarter than the decision to prescribe it.

Honestly? I took a course in child psychopathology, relatively recently, outside ASD and ADHD we know fuck all. Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll get your answers, because I doubt anyone really had their shit together.

Of course, I’m pissed at my psych currently, I haven’t felt this level of “no one is fucking listening” since I was ~16 (that’s not a commentary about age, but that I was a fucking mess then)

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

First year bong hits…that’s what I need…

Or more accurately, the bong and the people I used to share one with. A collection of frat boy wannabes, commies, artists, and a strange set of majors — psych, poli-sci, art, think there was a CS hippie…a business major libertarian (pro tip, stick to fucking them, they get messy to get involved with…and just don’t fuck republicans, never sleep with the enemy 🙂 )

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

*dies laughing* the only one of them that might’ve said that social justice was less important than economics was the business major, but genocide being less important than heart disease? I wouldn’t want to clean up the mess after everything from nachos to bong water got everywhere (for those unfamiliar with bong water, it smells like a combo of swamp and ass…and nothing like swamp ass…)

Fun times…even with the first year baby Marxist!

In funnier things, I have a pair of crazy pills dangling off my lips. I should swallow then and then find my chapstick!

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Flabbergasted, I am
/yoda

Total non-major in anything here, but … does he seriously think prejudice and hatred of “the other” would disappear along with economic inequality? Does he even consider that those very prejudices are what prevent so many people from having any chance of basic economic security, let alone economic equality with the majority?

Oy.

I am seeing you doing a really bad vampire impression with those pills (capsules?) tucked into your top lip. 😛

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“I am seeing you doing a really bad vampire impression with those pills (capsules?) tucked into your top lip.”

And sending a pic of it to the not-an-ex! XD

I’m on break from converting to outline because that’s where I got to — how economic equality would allow for better lobbying and grassroots efforts (note he does not consider himself an activist and has fuck all clue). That, and argh I looked at it again!

“And, presently being poor, I’m affected by the greatest social justice issue of them all. Money, more than anything else, is the unit of power.”

It’s MRA “logic” but from someone who can form sentences. Yeah poor cis straight white men with “high functioning” ASD are totally exactly as oppressed as poor trans* women of color! (Dear gods, intersectionality? That’s just divisions, y’all need to stop having divisions and focus on my money problems!)

Look, obviously economic inequality is a thing, but dear gods is that worse for some groups than others!

I require tea, guess I’ll make something cheap and easy, I lack the patience currently to brew white tea.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

The old ad here had it “A cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down,” which apart from the Bex sounds like what you need!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I’ve decided to finish this and then make good tea as a treat. There is a point to this, sort of, once I have this mess in something resembling debatable points, I’m letting Pecunium have a go at it. Because some of it is valid, or valid enough I kept at it for a few days, but it’s so mired in SHIT.

Also, y’all will get the most outrageous of the quotes 🙂

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Now letting Pecunium loose on Cloud Boy would be interesting … /schadenfreude

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

“If this sounds familiar, it’s because its also one explanation as to why poor whites can be racist when they have more in common with poor blacks than they do with the powerful. It gives them someone to be better than.”

Via joanimal

And this is why racism et al need to be prioritized over “everyone just has to work together to solve income inequality, because solving that will make racism et al easier to solve” — fuck yes all of the above need to be solved, but argh! You do not get to say to people who are minorities in ways besides being poor, that your poor white (male, cis, straight, erc) ass needs them to stop being divisive by worrying about racism et al!

Because goddamned yes, we need to work together, but people in positions of privilege telling people with less privilege what they have to do? OH HAI oppression!