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MRAs on love and marriage: “There is nothing wrong with wanting something beautiful that puts out.”

Vampire brides will steal your lifeblood
Vampire brides will steal your lifeblood

In not-quite spring, a young MRA’s fancy lightly turns to thoughts of love, and how women are all a bunch of moneygrubbing whores that get uglier and uglier as they get older.

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, discussions of marriage are busting out all over, like the buds of new spring flowers or the skidmarks in an MRA’s underpants. The fellows are not too keen on this whole marriage thing, which is an obvious female trick to rob men of their money and sperm and tie them to rapidly depreciating assets (women) who are only going to get uglier as time goes by.

In one thread, a fellow named wrez shares these thoughts, to much acclaim (or at least a few dozen upvotes):

MRwraz

In another, a fellow named rathum2323 suggests that any women interested in marriage is clearly up to something nefarious.

MRrath

All that said, I am pleased that Reddit MRAs are managing to convince their friends not to marry. Because if you’re someone who turns to MRAs for marriage advice, it’s probably best for all concerned that you never marry anyone or anything.

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isabeleve
isabeleve
7 years ago

I hate the term “putting out”. Hate, hate, hate. It’s as though sex is something a woman (it’s always a woman) owes to a man, rather than something she herself participates in and so may not feel like having it.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I was thinking of Congress as being the lower house.

It doesn’t help that people often refer to it that way…

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

I should clarify: people often refer to “Senators and congressmen” rather than “Senators and representatives”, which may be adding to your confusion. Hell, I think a lot of Americans are confused…

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

I’m fitting right in, then! 😀

katz
7 years ago

Congress = Parliament, more or less, and we both have the House of Reps as the lower chamber and the Senate as the upper chamber, yes?

You got it.

starskita
starskita
7 years ago

Recipe for hot lemon, good for colds and such.

Squeeze juice of 1 lemon into mug. Add equal volume of honey. Fill mug with hot water.

Rum is an acceptable additive.

It *seems* to help, but that might just be because I think it’s super tasty.

And benadryll can help you fall asleep if the headache/etc is making that difficult.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Seconding Starskita’s recipe. That shit is like a magic elixir when I’m sick. I can’t have rum, obvs, but a good green tea is also a nice addition (and the caffeine helps if you have to be awake while you’re sick)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

For store-bought cold remedies, do you have Traditional Medicinals teas where you are? Cold Care is a good all purpose one, and Breathing Thyme is more specific to congestion. I’d also recommend taking echinacea if you get colds often – the tea tastes quite good so if you like tea that’s a good way to go. Ginger can also be helpful with both symptoms (especially sore throat) and preventing sickness.

For immediate relief from congestion, take brothy soup and add something spicy, inhale vapor while you eat. I tend to go with pho and added hot sauce, but most broth + spicy combinations can work, and hot and sour soup tends to help a sore throat too.

joanimal
joanimal
7 years ago

I am unsure this is Nice Guy related or not, but there are aspects of all this that make no sense to me. When I was young I was considered a NG, but that just meant shy, maybe a little dull (we shy people interact less than the non-shy), essentially nerdy guys. I don’t recall any expectation associated with it. Particularly since college provided many opportunities to meet nerdy women. What changed?

There also seems to be weird pathology regarding attraction. I have been attracted to women I meet all my life. It happens every day. That doesn’t stop me from looking them in the eye and treating like a human being. Given the sheer number of people one meets in a lifetime that one can find attractive, the most common result will always be no sex or romance. But the MRAs seem to imagine that something else should be occurring. Where the fuck did that come from?

@Cassandra, yes pho or hot and sour soup are amazing (think Homer Simpson making that food-lust sound.)

melody
7 years ago

I hate that the house was so caught up on a few aspects of the bill. One that got a lot of notice was when a man rapes a native american woman on the reservation the one to deal out punishment should be the reservation. It makes sense for it to be that way because the average time it takes for a native american woman to go through the US court to charge her rapist is years.

I know it has been said, but boil water w/lemon for illness.

My grandma had premarital sex. She is 89 now. My great aunt also had premarital sex she died at 103. My grandpa most assuredly had premarital sex. He was apparently a player in his day (a solider:behind enemy lines in Germany). I think people like to delude themselves about what happen back in the day.

joanimal
joanimal
7 years ago

@melody

My wife’s family is from Mexico (3 generations back) and she met her spanish-speaking red-haired Irish great uncle when she was a child. Every member of the family had stories about his pre-maritial sex. I know people like to delude themselves about what happened back in the day.

pushelildaisies
7 years ago

I feel awful for their inevitable future brides-to-be, shipped in from an unfortunate home land, bought and paid for in his mind. Oh, I’m sure they’ll all be the perfect, subservient, gorgeous women these sort of men deserve. Indeed, comeuppance shall be good.

melody
7 years ago

@PUSHELILDAISIES
There are plenty of ladies in the US who fit their wants too. Not to say anything bad about my brothers GF (she is likely going to be my sister in law), but she is a meek little flower. She supported my brother for a few years. She rarely talks back. And she idolizes me *gags* and my brother *gags again*.
I think she is sweet, but she would appeal to the MRM crowd since she “knows her place”. Of course I doubt she would think my way of living was out of my place. However, I doubt she would speak up about it.
Honestly though. My brother is a huge improvement from her last boyfriends (he would never hit her). I think they are good for each other.

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

Oh wow, so many suggestions for cold soothers!

Unfortunately I haven’t been able to try any of them bar breathing in steam out due to not having the energy to leave my bed all of yesterday and being a poor student who has nearly run out of food and hasn’t been well enough to get to the shops 🙁

God I sound like a right Moaning Minnie. Luckily I’m going home for the weekend and I will have access to the wonders of home cooking and a well stocked fridge/cupboard.

Thanks for all the kind suggestions and well wishes everyone, they are much appreciated.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

@joanimal:

I don’t recall any expectation associated with it. Particularly since college provided many opportunities to meet nerdy women. What changed?

The essential confusion is that it’s being used as a label. Not all nice guys are Nice Guys (TM). The Nice Guy (TM) is the one who tells you what a nice guy they are while loading up all their entitlements and rage into the situation. Say, any one of our trolls here. They tell you they’re reasonable and then start shouting abuse at you.

Because if they’re friends with a woman and she won’t give them sex, she’s reneged on her end of the bargain. They gave friendship! She owes them!!

Who was it who called it out as non-equivalent exchange? I can’t remember now, I’d have to go look it up. But that’s such bullshit. When you get what you give, friendship, that’s the very definition of equivalent exchange, and you know what? You aren’t owed freindship just for giving it. A person can choose not to be friends with a person who has extended friendship to them, because, y’know, maybe they don’t like them.

So don’t think of it as being nice guys–it’s not. It’s the guys who call themselves nice but whose actions are anything but.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Ha! It was Abnoy! Of course!

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Late to the party, but when I think about it, my marriage was actually kind of a gigantic joyous ‘FUCK YOU’ to the people who wanted me to shut up.

Because you see, people like me aren’t SUPPOSED to get married to husbands like mine. If I simply INSIST on having such an embarrassing relationship, I should have the good decency of shutting the fuck up about it, hiding it in the closet, and never ever bringing it into the light of day. And to make a public celebration about it–my god!

Obviously, no legal benefits could be gotten out of my marriage. But dammit, we wanted to make a party celebrating how awesome our relationship was, because we’d never see representation of it anywhere else. When the vast majority of my family didn’t even know I EXISTED, never mind that I had a partner, it felt vitally important that I refuse to let the world push us out.

We rented chapel space, invited friends, my parents refused to come because it made them uncomfortable, and we went to Thai afterward. We read Shakespeare and watched Twilight and had a grand old time.

It was all very punk rock, considering a scrapbook was involved.

joanimal
joanimal
7 years ago

Actually LBT, it sounds sweet and awesome. Pity about your parents, but that was their loss.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Wow, LBT, that sounds wonderful.

… Now you’ve got me wondering if Mr K and I should do some sort of repeat ceremony for our friends on this side, next time we visit the States (that being where most of our earthsider friends inconsiderately hang out).

Hmm …

Jessay (@jessay)
7 years ago

I was just debating an MRA-type on another forum about child support and when I showed the data about how, when a man seeks custody, it’s more like 50/50 split between men and women he stopped debating. I said that yes, in any system there will be flaws where someone who deserved custody didn’t get it, but that’s an unfortunate side effect of a human-run system because humans are fallible.

He left me with, “a few “flaws in the system” ceases to be an acceptable reason when one of those flaws affects you personally.”

It’s just funny to me how he backed down when presented with actual data and was told that I wasn’t going to accept one-sided anecdata as proof of a grand anti-male conspiracy. But of course he couldn’t admit that he was wrong about the overall fairness of the system.

I just, I can’t with the child support debate. I don’t care how much you hate your ex, don’t punish your children to stick it to them. That’s the best way to prove you didn’t deserve custody.

Jessay (@jessay)
7 years ago

It looks like people were speaking of pain remedies earlier and I’ve recently discovered a great one: hemp seed oil. You can put like a tablespoon on your salad with some balsamic vinegar to ingest it (tastes great like that), or mix it in a shake, all sorts of ways that don’t include just downing a tablespoon. Super healthy for your skin and body and gives you an all around better feeling, less aches. Additionally, for specific problem areas, if you’re in for the night and not planning to do anything active, rub a bit of it directly over sore muscles and it drastically reduces pain. I put it on my joints at night right before I sip my sleepy time tea and it helps me feel nice and relaxed. But I gotta stress that you don’t want to put it on before being active because you could hyper-extend your muscles that way. But you can eat it whenever.

My mom has fibromialgia and her pain has improved dramatically since eating some on her salad daily, and it’s helped her heal her rotater cuff more quickly mixing it with doing physical therapy. And for the headache question you can rub a bit on your temples. The stuff is awesome.

Unfortunately my only cold remedy is tea with honey and lots of it. I’ve noticed a pretty extreme immune system boost since drinking several cups a day. And when I did catch something from class mates I drank a ton of tea that day and felt better the next day. Normally my colds linger forever.

hypatia
7 years ago

@jessay) | March 2, 2013 at 7:34 am

That’s such a classic example of cognitive bias – actual 50/50 equality being perceived as “biased towards women”. I’m reminded of this research: http://www.pbs.org/speak/speech/prejudice/women/

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Jessay, now I’m going to check if we can get hemp seed oil here! Sounds just the shot for my *&^%$ knees.

Jessay (@jessay)
7 years ago

@hypatia I ACTUALLY CITED THAT STUDY FOR HIM! I find that MRA-types feel like a majority in the man’s favor is equality and anything 50/50 or more in a women’s favor is MEN LOSING!

@Kitteh it’s available at a lot of health food stores, amazon.com, etc. I suggest buying some at the store first to see if it helps and if it does, halfway through the bottle order a bunch at a discount online. It’s imported to the US from Canada. Legal to buy here, just not to manufacture. So stupid. Are you from the US?

But can’t stress enough to not use it topically before strenuous activity. It is powerful enough to trick you into hurting yourself. At first my mom put it on her shoulder and was like, “OMG, look, I can lift my arm all the way up!” I was like, NO MOM! STOP! You gotta put it on and just let it do it’s thing.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Jessay, I looked it up before and it’s illegal here in Australia – at least, similar to the US, I think; you can eat the seeds/oil but not plant them. I’d be using the oil as a topical rub, I’m having a lot of muscle trouble with my back/legs.

Strenuous activity and I are not on speaking terms. 😉 Closest I get to that is a ten-second hurry to catch the tram! I’d be most likely to use it at night, along with all the other pills’n’potions. My bedside table looks like a flamin’ medicine cabinet.

There’s a heatlh-food store near my place, I’ll pop in after work one night and see if they have any.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

@Jessay I deal with a lot of muscle pain and if hempseed oil works as well as you say, I’d love to try it.

BUT I’m also a recovering alcoholic/addict, and I’m wondering (1) if THC is involved and (2) if you notice any mood or perception alteration at all (does it make you feel “nice and relaxed” because it’s soothing your muscles, or…). I know hemp and marijuana aren’t the same, but I get extra neurotic where my sobriety is concerned. Sorry if these are dumb questions :-/

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Legal to buy here, just not to manufacture. So stupid.

There’s a kind of logic there, of the “OMG what if people hide marijuana in their hemp crop?!” variety. But I won’t deny that it’s stupid, with counterarguments ranging from “people grow shitloads of pot in this country without hemp fields to hide it in” to “no one invested in either the hemp or the pot would risk cross-pollination” right on down to “fuck you and your ‘war on drugs'”.

regeya
regeya
7 years ago

This seems like cherrypicking, but I don’t honestly don’t mind given how the /r/mensrights subreddit looks.

I started reading it because I’m a SAHD with a four-year-old daughter (older sister is in school so I’m with the other most the time.) I’ve had a few…tense…moments when my being in public with her, without a female escort (yes, I’ve literally been asked, “Where’s her mother?” in an accusatory way) has caused alarm. At the time it bothered me. Considering how many men will sexually abuse a daughter…*shudder*

If anything, there’s no reason to misrepresent them. They’re this hypersensitive group that makes RadFem forums look tepid. I see women in there, and as long as they’re not picking fights (of course, read: agrees completely) they’re treated with respect.

regeya
regeya
7 years ago

And of course, I forgot to sat that I’ve noticed they have an extremely skewed perspective about men’s and women’s rights. Some of them honestly feel like women have it a lot better than men. Uh…I’m a white guy, and even I know better than that.

katz
7 years ago

I see women in there, and as long as they’re not picking fights (of course, read: agrees completelyexists) they’re treated with respect.

FTFY.

regeya
regeya
7 years ago

Katz, I’d appreciate the correction if only I understood what you were saying. Are you saying that the women there are actually men?

I suppose it could happen, though we’re mostly on the honor system on the Internet. Oh, how often people have seen my nickname and assumed the latin gender language system was in play…the things people say…

katz
7 years ago

Women on Reddit are considered to be picking fights by existing. Clear?

xiaobaobao
xiaobaobao
7 years ago

So why shouldn’t men want a hot woman who puts out? I don’t see an argument in there.

Matt
Matt
7 years ago

wrez: “There is nothing wrong with wanting something beautiful that puts out.”

C’mon folks, when is the rest of the world gonna stop oppressing “wrez” and let him marry his dog? Because that’s seriously what his cry for help sounds like…

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

And xiaobaobao demonstrates his idiocy again, unable to grasp the difference between “someone” and “something”.

xiaobaobao
xiaobaobao
7 years ago

Semantics, the most trivial of whines.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Also, the difference between “I want” and “there is something wrong with women because I don’t have”

Some Gal Not Bored at All

Semantics: the difference between a human baby and a paper plate. xiaobaobao really just makes feminism sound more and more appealing.

Ra
Ra
7 years ago

@Matt
“C’mon folks, when is the rest of the world gonna stop oppressing “wrez” and let him marry his dog? Because that’s seriously what his cry for help sounds like…”
Lol, I think your post is doing more harm to you than it is wrez. For you to say that requires YOU to believe that a dog qualifies as “something beautiful that puts out”. Seriously, it does look like that.

@David Futerelle
“All that said, I am pleased that Reddit MRAs are managing to convince their friends not to marry. Because if you’re someone who turns to MRAs for marriage advice, it’s probably best for all concerned that you never marry anyone or anything.”

You do realise men are deciding not to marry OUTSIDE of the MRA reddit sphere/ MRA influence in general?
Men are not idiots that they are unable to see marriage as an unworthy investment of your emotions or lifework without MRAs telling them, hence the Demographic Winter video.

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