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feminism misogyny woman's suffrage

Should men be allowed to vote?

alicemiller1915

Mocking misogyny: It’s not just for the present day. Here, from 1915, a pointed parody of misogynistic anti-Suffrage arguments by writer/poet Alice Duer Miller. (Note to extremely literal-minded MRAs: She was not actually advocating that men have the vote taken away from them. Nor are we.)

You can find many more examples of Miller’s sharp wit in her 1915 collection Are Women People? The whole thing is available online and in various ebook formats on Project Gutenberg.

Graphic via Roqayah Chamseddine (@iRevolt on Twitter).

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pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

I’m sorry, what was the conversation supposed to be about again?

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

New blog post!

*No, that’s not what the conversation was about. 😉

melody
8 years ago

I don’t really do recipes I just add things till the batter looked right. It works so whatever. I’m sorry for you loss.

howardbann1ster
8 years ago

BTW, on Diogenes whole ‘there is no Patriarchy, you must be ready to abandon your beliefs.’

Dude.

Duuuude.

So, um, I’ve mentioned my upbringing as a rightwing fundie, right? Have I mentioned that I actually haven’t managed to make a clean break from my family yet? That I still pretend to be all religious and do all that stuff to avoid the huge case of shunning coming my way? No? That’s because I feel like a fucking coward because of it.

Yeah.

But the thing is, I spent the weekend at a religious conference.

EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SPEECH WAS ABOUT HOW TO GET WOMEN BACK IN THE KITCHEN.

Oh, maybe not outright. It’s about men leading! Being spiritual heads of their household! Being knights! Being strong! Etc.

Big conference. Dudes as far as the eye can see. (not that big, but for the area, big enough that it has a wide geographical reach)

I’ve been to this Tuesday-night meeting that Diogenes scoffs at. I’ve been there. I’ve been going to it my whole life. I’ve been the agent of the Patriarchy, the jack-booted thug explaining to women why they can’t lead, can’t do theology, can’t be part of the sphere of ‘important things.’

And it seemed perfectly natural, normal and right until fairly recently.

So, Cynic, I put your challenge back to you. What evidence would you accept?

And on a completely different note, food insecurity. OMG. So I’m a professional, fairly successful. (sometimes I wish I could come here and post and read more often, but I have to zip off to work presently)

But I grew up working-class poor. Dad worked construction. Y’all probably know what that means. It means off-season we had to rely on unemployment and food stamps. It means that these days I hoard food, because that little voice in the back of my head is sure that when the cupboards go bare we aren’t going to be able to refill them, so we can never, ever allow the cupboards to be anywhere near bare. It means I have a secret stash of snack food where nobody else can find it, just in case.

——

@emilygoddess–dittoing what everybody else said.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

Howard, its funny that you mention “the cupboards must never be bare, or else”. I’ve kept the same quirk, and man do I get antsy when the food starts running low…

Diogenes, go and read the MRA and Christian movements. They spell it out pretty clearly, what they think of women. They speak often and long about what needs to be done to make women stay in our place. They spell out very clearly what should happen to women who step out of line. Personally, I’d be happy if these types of men ONLY talked this shit on Tuesdays. That would be one day out of the week women, gay people and transexuals could walk about and live our lives a little more freely.

Myoo
Myoo
8 years ago

I’m sorry for your loss, emilygodess.

melody
8 years ago

@Howard: I have food issues too. I have to have food in my pantry and food in my car. My issues have a lot to do with as a child not having enough food.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

@emily – I’m sorry for your loss. This is a pretty awesome and easy chocolate cake recipe, if you’re still looking for some chocolate recipies. I recently made it for my gram’s birthday and it was pretty awesome. http://www.tasteofhome.com/Recipes/One-Bowl-Chocolate-Cake

As far as Diogenes goes, I can only say, thanks dude, for demonstrating why allies are important. But to answer your question, no, the only people who complain about societal issues are not necessarily those directly impacted by those issues. Not everyone in the world is a totally self-absorbed asshole (which I know is really hard to imagine since you are one). For example, I care a great deal for my gay friends who can’t legally get married yet in my state, even though I’m not gay. People care about other people! Totally whacky, right?

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Howard, please accept your prize of one internet.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: emilygoddess

I’m sorry for your loss. Sucks ass.

RE: howardbann1ster and pillowinhell

Heh. If I have too much food, I get fucking twitchy. (What have I done to DESERVE this food? Food is for OTHER people.) And Howard, I’ve been in the stuck with family situation. It sucks. My condolences.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

emilygoddess — sorry for loss, but I haven’t any easy chocolate recipes (besides the easiest, buy chocolate, unwrap/open, eat chocolate)

Semi-related to the food discussion // FYI — it’s eating disorder awareness week. Which I mention more because y’all are the awareness spreading types than because I think you need a dose of awareness (am I making any goddamned sense? I need to balance my coffee with some whiskey)

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

MOAR WHISKEY!

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

“I’d like to hear what kind of evidence would change you mind, D. I’ll look for your answer when I get back. I’m going jogging (TO COMPENSATE FOR MY FAILED DIETZ!!11!) Have fun with the pinyata, y’all.”

-Zanana The Pegging Queen

I would agree to patriarchy existing if there was a centralized campaign to marginalize women. The pre-suffarage era institutionalized only men having a say in government, for example. I’m not as quick to say that social institutionalization counts though. Only men can be masons, (or freemasons, or whatever they call themselves) but men created the organization, and there’s nothing preventing women from creating a similar organization for themselves.

But without evidence of such a campaign, I am just not willing to agree to the concept.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

“You’re kidding, surely. Have you never heard someone complain about injustices that affect other people? Or even ones that affect the group they belong to, though said injustice might not have hit them?”

-The Kittehs

I have a few friends who grew up in South Africa. They’re white, and they remember apartheid. They disagreed with it, but apartheid didn’t make them bitter. Now, the people it affected? I’m sure some of them were or are bitter.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Shut up, Diogenes.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

mxe354

Well thats interesting. It seems that without a definition, you can warp “patriarchy” to mean whatever you want it to.

Otherwise, you’re complaining about the actions of individuals. Other people can be annoying, but similarities between them does not constitute a conspiracy against you.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Shut uo.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Did they DO anything about apartheid? Were they jailed? Shot at? Tortured? Had family members killed?

Go away, you ninny.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

Some Gal, I’m not some kind of friendless troglodyte.

These are my close friends.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Oh, is that what that sound was I thought I heard a bratty kid outside chanting “me me listen to me me I’m really special me me me why is nobody paying attention to me me me me you all suck” over and over again.

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

I have a few friends who grew up in South Africa. They’re white, and they remember apartheid. They disagreed with it, but apartheid didn’t make them bitter. Now, the people it affected? I’m sure some of them were or are bitter.

Well I have a cousin who grew up in South Africa. She is white and she was active against apartheid to such an extent that she was blacklisted by the then government. Since she had dual UK nationality and sufficient funds, she was privileged enough to be able to leave the country for a while when things got too hot for her. Some of her less privileged friends were “disappeared”. She went back at the first possible moment that she could and you can bet that she is bloody bitter about how apartheid affected other people.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Go away, little boy. No here wants or needs your “thought” pellets messing up the carpet.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

“Racist much?

And apparently only rich, thin, attractive people can have valid opinions. You heard it here first.”

-Titan Blue

Its not inaccurate to assume most Mongolian speakers are Mongolian, or that most Russian speakers are from Russia.

And I don’t know where you got that second half. Any supported opinion is a valid one.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I’m not some kind of friendless troglodyte.

I wouldn’t know. If you’re as annoying and obnoxious elsewhere as you are here, I’d say you are a friendless troglodyte.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Assumes facts not in evidence.

(Too cliched?)

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Of course Diogenes the Dim thinks all opinions are valid. It’s all he’s got.

Unfortunately, all of his opinions are stunning unoriginal and not worth airing.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

“Oh, god, is this the same Diogenes who got banned from the Straight Dope?”

-Random6x7

No. Thats a different Diogenes. I mostly post on fark, and the ftl bbs.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Cassandra: Assuming facts not in evidence is a lifestyle for this kid.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

So, anyway, bored with him already. What’s everyone up to this weekend?

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

There were white people in apartheid Africa who weren’t bitter about apartheid?

I wonder why that was? Could it be because every single social institution was set to advantage them over the black people who’s home it was?

Naahhh!

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I need to clean out my closet and start a Goodwill bag, and the refrigerator/freezer needs a good cleaning. I also have to find a birthday present for my mom.

How’s that for a wild time?

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

What are you doing, Cassandra?

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

And according to his Dullness, if the white South Africans he knows weren’t bitter about apartheid, then no white South Africans were concerned about the effect it had on non-whites. And so no one has ever complained about injustices faced by other people. Not ever ever ever. /fallacy

My Mum’s coming round for lunch tomorrow, we shall drink wine & watch Bollywood dvds.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

I have an interview to do on Sunday, dinner with Mr C (not sure where we’re going yet), and if it gets warmer I might finally be able to go ride my bike.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

What kind of band are you interviewing?

It’s been rainy and drizzly here today, I love it. Probaby because I know it won’t last six months like it did in Seattle.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Will email you.

It’s really wierd here right now, bright and sunny but about 50 degrees. Every time you look out the window and think that a walk would be nice it’s a trap.

Diogenes The Cynic
Diogenes The Cynic
8 years ago

s with his 1.Same thing with attractive women. My attractive friends don’t complain about how being pretty gets them further along in life (admit it, it does)
Nice try, but I don’t admit it. Tell you what, as you’ve made this affirmative statement, prove it, or accept that you are wrong.

2.Depends on what they complain of. Let’s look at your, “rich people are happy with things” idea. Warren Buffet. Bill Gates. Both of them (and Gates was born to well off parents. Yeah, he dropped out, but that was because he had a father willing to bankroll a hundred large in launching a company).
They are complaining about the way things are, and saying they ought to be different.

3.The Republican Party is complaining that they aren’t allowed to marginalise people. They are working to suppress the vote to make it possible for them to keep marginalising others.

4.Yeah, and who’s the one complaining about it? What drives a person to complain about something like that unless its a raw issue for them?

What is raw about it? Oh right, that juries treat them unfairly. That people discriminate against them. That shitheads like you insult people they don’t know with weight, as if that were some measure of moral worth, or personal merit.

5.The fuck you know about it. I get the flipside all right. I get told I don’t weigh enough. That I lack the manly physique. It’s not as pervasive, but having to cheat to get into the Army because I was below the minimum weight required does give one a certain sense of being discriminated against.

6.If you are able to come up with criteria, you probably have reasons for your beliefs. If you can’t, it probably means you hold your positions from a deeply emotive place, and not a logical one.

False dilemma, and a primary geek fallacy. Logic and emotion aren’t inseparable. One can have both. Pretending to an, “above emotions, all I do is look at the facts” is the geek fallacy. It’s bullshit.

1.See above where pillow in hell posts.
2.When Tolstoy thought “the system” was unfair, he changed himself. Began working the fields with his tenants. You seem to have missed the point entirely. Those 2 still wouldn’t trade wealth for poverty because they know they have it better.
3.Republicans, what? How did they get in here.
4.So, you agree with me?
5.My heart bleeds cold borscht for you.
6.Funny in how trying to show that my statement contains a logical fallacy, you commit one yourself. Emotion alone cannot be used as an argument. Thats called the pathetic fallacy.

cloudiah
8 years ago

It hailed here today! We normally don’t experience this phenomenon you know as “weather” so it sent us into a tizzy.

My wild weekend plans involve taking my depressed friend out for brunch (since that got canceled last weekend-from-hell) and doing a bunch of non-required reading. I should clean out the refrigerator too; something terribly sticky spilled in there. I can’t even figure out what it was. (But I blame the patriarchy, of course.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

BTW I just found this old commercial for some really ugly jeans that symbolizes what it’s like to have Diogenes verbally wanking at you.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

@ cloudiah

That reminds me of the one time (in 6 years) that it rained while we were in Saudi. Everyone went out and played in it because wtf, water can just fall from the sky?

titianblue
titianblue
8 years ago

Diogenes, go away and only come back when you can write a coherent comment.

We’re threatened with rain and sleet all weekend. Hence the dvd plans. I am test-driving a little petrol-driven cultivator on Sunday to see if I want it for the allotment. Ah, the excitement!

cloudiah
8 years ago

Those jeans are terrible, and I kind of want a pair.

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
8 years ago

Tomorrow I have dinner with some family members, and then my father’s persuaded me to watch “Das Boot (The Director’s Cut.)” Should be fun. Sunday is dogwalking and laundry.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

cloudiah: I don’t know how the freezer got so grody, but I’m sure the patriarchy had a hand in it. Maybe it’s bitter.

Is that mosquito still buzzing around here? I hear this high pitched whining.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Am I weird that test-driving a little petrol-driven cultivator sounds fun? (Don’t answer that question. I already know that I’m weird.)

Das Boot was the movie that reminded me that I have claustrophobia issues and should never watch movies that involve submarines, or people trapped in caves.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Those jeans! They scared Biscuit, who was transfixed for a minute, then went tear-assing around.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

Das Boot was the movie that reminded me that I have claustrophobia issues and should never watch movies that involve submarines, or people trapped in caves.

This is why The Descent is so scary. Claustrophobia and scary monsters that want to chew on your leg.

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
8 years ago

I’m worried that it will make me feel claustrophobic, but he really wants to share it with me. He’s reading a new book about submarines and it’s got him all fired up.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@Diogenes

I’m not some kind of friendless troglodyte.

These are my close friends.

Oh, I wasn’t disputing that they are your close friends. I was disputing that you are their close friend. You aren’t really qualified to comment on that.