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feminism misogyny woman's suffrage

Should men be allowed to vote?

alicemiller1915

Mocking misogyny: It’s not just for the present day. Here, from 1915, a pointed parody of misogynistic anti-Suffrage arguments by writer/poet Alice Duer Miller. (Note to extremely literal-minded MRAs: She was not actually advocating that men have the vote taken away from them. Nor are we.)

You can find many more examples of Miller’s sharp wit in her 1915 collection Are Women People? The whole thing is available online and in various ebook formats on Project Gutenberg.

Graphic via Roqayah Chamseddine (@iRevolt on Twitter).

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Some Gal Not Bored at All

@LBT

In that case, the issue is still with the bullies, not with the money, I’d think.

Yeah, but I get hating the thing that makes you different. When I was a kid, I used to cry a lot and people (adults too) were often pretty mean about it. I hated that I cried instead of hating the people who were mean. Now, I think they were just jerky kids and clueless adults. I still have a strange relationship with crying, though, and I had to work really hard not to judge people who cry in public after I’d worked so hard to never do that.

I can see developing a real love/hate relationship with money as a result of bad experiences in childhood.

pecunium
8 years ago

Naïf: You’re not Jewish, but you speak the lingo which isn’t common.

Which tells you what? Not much. The things about me/us you don’t know, which will bite you in the ass when you start to assume you can, “read” us are legion.

Moreover, I note that you don’t respond when I do, “speak the lingo”. So we’ll just chalk that up to you admitting, by silence, that you were wrong.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

random – hi, nice to see you commenting again! Don’t feel awkward, it’s great when lurkers delurk. 🙂

So, a Diogenes got banned from Straight Dope? Any details you’d like to share? It’d be interesting to know if it’s the same idiot.

pecunium
8 years ago

random6x7: I remember you. Do tell about this Diogenes who got the Straight Dope to give him the boot.

pecunium
8 years ago

And oh yeah, to elaborate on this: If you are able to come up with criteria, you probably have reasons for your beliefs.

I came up with criteria for the list of personal and moral failings I see in you. I’m glad to see you admitting I have reasons for my beliefs.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: pecunium

False dilemma, and a primary geek fallacy. Logic and emotion aren’t inseparable. One can have both. Pretending to an, “above emotions, all I do is look at the facts” is the geek fallacy. It’s bullshit.

Thank you. I want to tattoo this on my forehead for all the conversations I might have with my father in the future.

RE: pillow in hell

In a way, they know what being poor means and they seek to avoid it. In other ways, like not being able to keep a roof over ones head, or not knowing when your next meal will be is beyond their ability to truly KNOW

Yeah, one of my hopes with my webcomic is to try and make that poverty feeling really sink in. I worry I’m not doing such a good job (in part because a decent chunk of the time, I’m getting through this by pretending I’m having a marvelous adventure and that this is a mere temporary setback) but… oh well, I’ve got time.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

Hi, random6x7!

You never have to feel bad about “butting in.” We would love to hear from you whenever you like. 🙂

random6x7
random6x7
8 years ago

Hello!

He used to be a really prolific poster there, but got banned a few years ago for repeatedly violating the rules. He also annoyed the fuck out of a lot of people by being an arrogant jerk who’d make the same argument over and over without actually listening to anyone. I’m not the most steady lurker, so I can’t really say much more, but the styles did seem similar. Oh! He also had that “I’m a liberal, but feminazis yuck!” attitude. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re the same guy, although I frankly wouldn’t be surprised if they were both mral either.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Some Gal

Aw, you too? Yeah, back in the day, those-who-predated-me had that crying thing as well. (In some ways, I still have it.) I honestly think we learned to dissociate in an attempt to control it. After years of practice, it started to work… but after having the horrific experience of desperately needing to try and being PHYSIOLOGICALLY UNABLE to, I became much more respectful about crying. (It’s a horrible feeling. Like having a canned food with botulism in your chest that you can’t open.)

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

It’s not just a geek fallacy, either. Reason/logic good, emotion bad has been around for centuries – hell, Richelieu used to give Louis lectures on the subject back in the day, and men were allowed to be a damn sight more emotional then than they are now.

Speaking of which – Some Gal, the Cardinal cried very easily then, too. People tended to say he was putting it on, but he found it humiliating.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

LBT, try getting them to remember and exactly experience the flavor of their favorite dessert. That is very difficult for people to do. Feed them their favorite meal and ask them to remeber what exact sensations they experienced when they were at their hungriest. If you can’t easily call those things to mind (and most of us can’t) then how do they know what its like? Fasting and other forms of denial are a good way to keep those experiences close for recall. So long as the wealthy keep in mind that for someone who is poor there is no assurance of an end point.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@LBT

The only time I’ve really needed to cry and been unable to was on an antidepressant (don’t remember which one) and it is a really horrible feeling. I never got to the point where I stopped crying when I was alone and I either put it off or have a mini-cry when no one is looking or in the bathroom or something when I am not alone and need to cry.

I have a friend who has (almost) no problems crying in front of other people and I am both baffled and a bit jealous.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Kittehs

Some Gal, the Cardinal cried very easily then, too. People tended to say he was putting it on, but he found it humiliating.

I actually find that very reassuring. Even though I’ve become more accepting of my crying easily, I’ve still never felt all that comfortable with it. Knowing another guy, even a long-dead Cardinal, had a similar problems helps me feel better.

RE: pillowinhell

I’ve been lucky. So far, any fasting I’ve done has been ED-induced, not financially induced. For that, I feel immensely fortunate.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@The Kittehs’

I’ve been accused of putting it on and also told I am just “too sensitive.” Awful!

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: Some Gal

Oh god, the ‘sensitive’ label. GOD, I hated that damned label. One of my joys these days is I have friends who I can cry around, if I choose to, and if I tell them not to bother me while I do so, they will obey.

And yeah, in my case, the inability to cry was due to my hormone level. I immediately cut my dosage. So not worth it.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

Well thank all that’s good in life, that income induced hunger hasn’t been an issue for you LBT. I’ll just be over here hoping that ED doesn’t cause you any more grief. Hugs if you want em.

When I was financially at my worst I kinda went through three stages. The first was day long panic attacks and an obsessive need to rewrite and check my personal finances and calculations multiple times a day. Then I started elaborately imagining every detail of how life would be if I was making decent money. I’m an introvert (pretty extreme) so when I crawl into my mind whatever I decide to think about becomes my reality and it takes effort for me to engage with everyone/thing else, though I can do so without anyone noticing that I’m daydreaming. That worked for a while, but desperation really set in and I spent entire days counting my blessings. And damn if there weren’t a shit ton more of them then I ever thought. That’s really what got me through, because it helped me to see that I had more resources than I thought, and in many ways those resources are far more instrumental to success than just having money. That time also forced me to re evaluate what I valued and believed in and helped me to get out of a job that I found horrendously stressful but didn’t quite know why.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

In a post in which baby-cynic accuses hellkell of projecting:

“Something happened that made you an angry little person.”

Wow, can you guys smell that? *sniff sniff* I think it’s unintentional irony.

You’re talking about yourself, kiddo. You also need some hobbies were you get some fresh air and meet new people. I dunno, try LARPing or something.

WeeBoy
WeeBoy
8 years ago

Crying is my default reaction to pretty much everything. Frustration, loud noises, getting yelled at – cry. So much fun at an all boys school.

Speaking of which to get briefly back to the bad fashion advice, I wore a black blazer and grey trousers every day for two years. It was a bad time for me, fashionistically speaking.

pecunium
8 years ago

I’ve been poor. The interesting thing was how I reacted to being not poor again. I spent a couple of weeks, eating like a horse. It’s not that I’d been truly wanting for food, but I’d been worrying about being able to buy enough. When that pressure was lifted I bought more than I needed (though not more than I could eat), and then ate it.

I’ve been really hungry. Not when I was broke but at times when I forgot to eat; or when I was on operations and food wasn’t a priority.

Best meal I ever had was a black-forest ham, romaine, cheddar cheese, dijon mustard and pickles on sourdough bread. I recall wolfing a cucumber while my girlfriend was making it. Not broke, not short of food. I’d gone swimming first thing after waking, and was so blood sugar depleted I fell down coming up the three steps from the den to the dining room.

That was… 26 years ago. The cucumber was ambrosial.

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

re: Pillowinhell

Yeah, I was immensely lucky. I’d been on food stamps even when I was working, since my income was that low, and so though losing my job was harsh, at least I could afford food. In fact, food stamps probably saved my ass more ways than one, since my ED just LOVED to play the game of, “You can’t buy that food! You need that money for treatment for your eating disorder!” So yeah. Thank god, no matter how poor I got, at least I always had food. (Though getting it into my mouth was another thing entirely.)

I actually have this game I play similar to what you call counting your blessings. The game was called ‘At Least I…’ and then I’d try to come up with all the horrible things that WEREN’T happening to me. If I felt really shitty, I’d still force myself to think of something, which because I felt shitty would invariably end up being something utterly ridiculous, like, “At least I’m not being assaulted by a furious elephant.” And that would be silly enough to maybe coax some slightly humor out of me. And I’d keep going until I at least had some laughs at my own expense.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

LBT, I don’t cry easily either. I almost wish I could, because I don’t let anyone know when I feel vulnerable in any way. Which makes having close relationships something of a difficulty.

Spontaneous crying would at least clue people close to me that something is going on.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

I actually find that very reassuring. Even though I’ve become more accepting of my crying easily, I’ve still never felt all that comfortable with it. Knowing another guy, even a long-dead Cardinal, had a similar problems helps me feel better.

Not to mention he was someone who could reduce other people to tears when he let rip, or just because of his political power and intimidating personality. None of which excludes sensitivity. And as I said, this was an age when men were much more openly emotional than in the last century or so. The idea of anger being the only acceptable emotion for men to show didn’t have such a grip then as in more recent times.

Shiraz – “baby-cynic” – love it, it just fits katz’s illustration of him.

(I <3 that pic of Pierre cuddling Poutine.)

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

The blessings thing started when I was watching one of those fundraising marathons for kids in developing countries. Bad as things were, I realized how many people would sell their souls to be where I was.

For as long as I live, I’ll remember the little girl who lived in a garbage dump with her mother and her only possesion was a plastic doll leg that she treated like a full dolly. Also, the women that were also there were asked if they didn’t dream of sending their kids to school. One exhausted looking woman turned to the person asking and said “we’re too poor to afford dreams”.

I have never been that poor and I can’t even begin to wrap my head around that thought.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

“…because I don’t let anyone know when I feel vulnerable in any way.”

I can relate. One time my friend walked in on me at the bathroom at work while I was having a panic attack. I actually asked her stay and sit with me, which was a really bid deal. Later she said it was a confusing experience because she knew the panic attack was happening but I seemed too quiet and kept apologizing. There’s just a big fear of being seen as a mess.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

I don’t know how I missed that, kitteh.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

It was posted a good while back. 🙂

LBT
LBT
8 years ago

RE: pillowinhell

Yeah, that is a level of poor that I can only imagine. I mean, really, I’ve got it pretty good. My income might be extremely low, but I have a roof over my head, food, and a great number of people who care about me, so even if I did lose everything, I could be taken care of. (Though I would STILL take to the street before returning to my family.)

RE: Shiraz

Yeah, I can understand. We’re dissociative. Which means that when shit really hits the fan, we just… turn into a golem. We once spent a few days in a state where we pretty much just sat in a corner and waited to be sane again. If someone put food in front of us, we ate it. If someone asked us a simple question, or told us to do something simple, we’d answer and obey. Other than that? Sit in corner and wait.

So people who know us realize that when we stop reacting to our environment, we’re in deep shit. But we got by for years without anyone knowing otherwise, and actually achieved really high performance while being spaced out the entire time.

cloudiah
8 years ago

I’m lucky enough to never have been poor, though there were a few years after my father died that my mother worried about how to keep things together. (She hid that from us pretty well though.) But my mother grew up during the Depression in South Dakota, and her father was unemployed for a big chunk of that time. Her mother supported them by cooking for other people, and they raised chickens and grew some of their own food. They even took in the kids from another family when their father killed their mother and himself, leaving them orphans. Anytime they became aware that another family was having an especially hard time, their mother would cook meals for them too — even though that reduced the amount of food that she could sell. That experience is why my mother is (a) extremely frugal, and (b) even though she is a registered Republican she strongly supports welfare and other forms of public assistance for people who need it.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

LBT, *saluting gesture*

mxe354
8 years ago

LBT, I don’t cry easily either. I almost wish I could, because I don’t let anyone know when I feel vulnerable in any way. Which makes having close relationships something of a difficulty.

Spontaneous crying would at least clue people close to me that something is going on.

I can totally relate here. I’ve been shamed so many times for crying that now I’m afraid of crying in front of people – the shaming is always hard for me to deal with. And that fear has even lead to an inability to cry in general.

I wish I had the ability to spontaneously cry, not only for the reason you mentioned, but also these days I’m in need of some kind of catharsis that I can only do through crying. The most I can do is shed a few tears. It sucks.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

Sorry for the derail, but I just heard that a friend/D&D buddy died, unexpectedly, this morning. I should probably apply cookies (and avoid the wine rack). Anyone got a quick, chocolaty recipe?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

Page five needs a chocolate fix /LivejournalMeme

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

I’m sorry to hear that emilygoddess. Hugs if you want them.

I’m crap at baking, so I don’t have a recipe.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@emilygoddess

I’m sorry. Hugs if you want them. I’m also sorry I don’t have any quick chocolatey recipes. (I have some regular-length, have to look them up ones and “open jar of chocolate frosting, dip cookie”-style ones.)

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Internet hugs from another non-cook. 🙁

cloudiah
8 years ago

I’m so sorry emilygoddess. Sending hugs and chocolate cookies your way, just grab whichever ones you want.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

Emily goddess, would brownies do? I have a simple recipe that people seem to like…

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
8 years ago

If you are in a thundering hurry you might try that chocolate cake in a cup in the microwave thingumy. It turns out more like a brownie than a cake but for emergencies it cannot be beat for speed.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
8 years ago

Brownies:

4 squares unsweetened chocolate
2 cups sugar
3/4 cups butter
3 eggs
1 tsp vanilla
1 cup flour

So, get a heavy sauce pan out. Over medium to medium high heat melt the chocolate squares and butter together. Be careful to not scorch the chocolate by stirring frequently. Add the sugar and mix well. Remove from heat and add the eggs and vanilla. Mix well. Add the flour and mix.

Place into a buttered 9×9 pan. Place in 350 degree oven for thirty five minutes and test with toothpick to check if done.

*and now I want brownies, but don’t have chocolate*

I’m sorry for your loss.

buchanan maddox coleslaw
buchanan maddox coleslaw
8 years ago

Hugs, emilygoddess. The easiest chocolate thing I can think of is brownies and the perfect recipe will depend on what you have on hand.

clairedammit
clairedammit
8 years ago

Dammit.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

I found a box of brownie mix and a packet of instant coffee* and made my famous-at-my-church mocha brownies (replace the water in the recipe with coffee and a dash of vanilla extract). Many blessings on my mother-in-law for keeping brownie mix in the house.

I have never gotten the mug of cake to work – it always comes out dry and crumbly. Is there a trick I’m missing?

*I usually use my cold brew concentrate or leftover morning coffee, but since I started working in a coffee shop I don’t make much coffee at home.

mxe354
8 years ago

I’m sorry to hear that, emilygoddess. I would share my mom’s chocolate chip cookie recipe, but she wants to keep that a secret. Sorry.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

@Pillowinhell, thanks, I’ll save that for the inevitable out-of-brownie-mix emergency.

@everyone thanks for the kind words

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

“open jar of chocolate frosting, dip cookie”

I like to do this with vanilla frosting and chocolate Teddy Grahams. It’s just like those rare occasions when I was allowed Dunkaroos as a kid.

katz
8 years ago

Emily, I’m very sorry. How about some simple haystacks? Just melt some chocolate (in a double boiler if you’ve got one), allow it to cool slightly, and throw in whatever you like of the following:

Chow mein noodles
Shredded coconut
Mini marshmallows
Nuts (slivered almonds, peanuts, cashews, etc)
Dried fruits (raisins, dried cranberries, chopped dried apricots, etc)

Mix until everything is coated thoroughly and then drop by spoonfuls onto waxed paper to dry.

Shiraz
Shiraz
8 years ago

Sorry, emilygoddess. *Hug*

pecunium
8 years ago

two recipes:

ganache: Good chocolate: dark.

Some sugar.

Heavy cream.

Put the the cream in a pan, get it warm. Add chocolate and sugar (per cup I like about 4 oz chocolate, and about 2 tblsp sugar.

use as hot cocoa base, or for other things which want chocolate.

Mocha petits pots du creme

coffee beans

half and half
vanilla bean

Chocolate

Sugar
milk
eggs

Put the beans in a moderate (350-400F) oven until they sweat.

When they are cool, float them in the half and half, with the vanilla bean. When it is about 190F, turn the heat off, let the proteins coagulate, removed the cake of beans.

find the vanilla bean (it ought to be in the bottom). Split it,and scrape the seeds. Add the chocolate, (to taste, ganache will work) and about 2:1 milk to half and half (a bit more, if you use ganache). per cup of mixture take one egg, per three cups add one egg yolk (at least two). Beat the eggs with the sugar (estimate). When the foam has settled pour it slowly into the cooled chocolate/milk, and bake in a water bath, as any other custard.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@emilygoddess

I also infrequently got dunkaroos. (My mom was big on health food. I grew up not to be.)

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
8 years ago

We just couldn’t afford brand-name food very often.

(Hey look, I re-railed the conversation!)