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feminism misogyny woman's suffrage

Should men be allowed to vote?

alicemiller1915

Mocking misogyny: It’s not just for the present day. Here, from 1915, a pointed parody of misogynistic anti-Suffrage arguments by writer/poet Alice Duer Miller. (Note to extremely literal-minded MRAs: She was not actually advocating that men have the vote taken away from them. Nor are we.)

You can find many more examples of Miller’s sharp wit in her 1915 collection Are Women People? The whole thing is available online and in various ebook formats on Project Gutenberg.

Graphic via Roqayah Chamseddine (@iRevolt on Twitter).

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The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Yeah, and who’s the one complaining about it? What drives a person to complain about something like that unless its a raw issue for them?

You’re kidding, surely. Have you never heard someone complain about injustices that affect other people? Or even ones that affect the group they belong to, though said injustice might not have hit them?

Protip, kid: I’ve never dieted in my life and never been looking for male attention, so your snark (which is very much gendered, as Pecunium pointed out) doesn’t apply to me. Am I aware of how women are judged by appearance, and how ridiculous and shifting the standards are? Of course I am. I’m also hugely pissed off by it even though I don’t feel like I have suffered because of it. Am I pissed off by racism? Damn right I am, though I have all the privilege that comes from being white in a majority white country and can’t claim any real depth of understanding of the issues.

Your claims sound like you think everyone is wholly self centred and quite incapable of seeing things from another person’s viewpoint.

It’s like an attack of the B___s.

Speaking of whom, I just read the thread where he finally got put on moderation with David’s unwinnable “write a comment where you don’t talk about yourself” challenge. B__’s response was one where he mentioned himself 35 times and hilarity ensued. Perfect moment! 😀

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: Kittehs

I actually care a lot about people being dicks about fatness because we come from a fat family. I’ve SEEN the douchery people have heaped on awesome people like my aunts and uncles. (And one of my aunts is a fat nutritionist. Man, were people douches to her about that! And this is a woman who despite arthritis and bone spurs is still strong as an ox.) Also, though I don’t think we’ve been fat ourself, I’ve been fighting an eating disorder, and body-shaming in general seems to get tackled by the fat-positivity folks. We still have to deal with it, and fat-pos blogs help me fight the distortion in my head.

And even if we WERE all fat… who cares? Does that mean fighting dickery is any less important?

mxe354
mxe354
11 years ago

Want to know why most guys reject the concept? Its because they’re not gathering every Tuesday at 7:00 to plan on how they’re gonna subjugate the womenfolk.

They don’t understand how the patriarchy works. The patriarchy does not depend on conscious conspiracy.

cloudiah
11 years ago

The first demonstration I ever attended was an anti-apartheid demo at UCLA in 1986, when I was still in high school. Clearly, I must be a black South African! My S. California family of Danish/German origin will be surprised to hear that, but DtC can’t be wrong.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

I went to a Save the Franklin march in the 80s. I must be a river! Or maybe a tree!

cloudiah
11 years ago

Except now I am a lady riding an ostrich, and that’s real.

cloudiah
11 years ago

I did clinic defense for years — AND I’VE NEVER BEEN PREGNANT!

Some Gal Not Bored at All
Some Gal Not Bored at All
11 years ago

One of the Johnson & Johnson heirs made a documentary, “Born Rich,” that was pretty much nothing but his similarly well-off friends complaining about how hard it is to be wealthy. In fact, this is not uncommon and makes me think that Diogenes either has never met someone with a trust fund or that the people he knows with trust funds don’t consider him enough of a friend to complain to.

Ditto his attractive “friends.” I am sure he has at least seen an attractive person, but be trusted with complaints? Diogenes?

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
11 years ago

Diogenes, dullest of trolls,
I know you think you’re on a roll,
but it’s not that you’ve scored –
it’s just that we’re bored –
Your delusions are really quite droll.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
11 years ago

Diogenes, I’ve heard plenty of wealthy men complain about being judged on their wealth. Yes, some of them know that by and large they have it very good. And some of those trust fund kids get tired of running into the steroetypes but they also see how it helps. Mostly, I think what gets the wealthier folks is trying to determine who is really a friend interested in them, and who is the sycophant hoping to profit from them.

I was one of the very pretty girls who complained about being pretty. Yes, being pretty has some advantages, like being more noticeable, or having an easier time getting dates, or finding clothes that look good on my body type. Whlle being attractive certainly helped in getting me hired, it did not help (and was detrimental to) people to respect my intelligence. It did not help when I had to figure out who actually liked me for who I was, rather than being a more prestigous notch on a bedpost. It did not help when I applied for promotions that required dilligence, intelligence, clear analytical thinking or in fact anything other than “people will like me”. Very pretty or outright beautiful women fight the stereotype of being bimbos, or only getting the job because they slept with the right person. Neither of those things help when you’re in a leadership position and you need the respect and willingness to work from your staff and co workers. Is it as bad as being ugly? Hell no, which is why most women who are very attractive don’t openly complain.

Essentially, being attractive opens a lot more doors. That being said, unless a fair degree of intelligence and knowledge on how to present yourself as qualified and intelligent accompanies that attractiveness, you aint getting taken seriously. And that closes the doors that you really want through in life.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: Some Gal

Yeah, I mentioned my experience with being ‘attractive.’ Admittedly, I’m kinda an oddball, but my experience is still an experience.

I don’t even UNDERSTAND bitching about being rich. If you’re unhappy about your socioeconomic situation, it’s much harder to become poor than it is to become rich. If you don’t like being rich, you can always just go cinematic and start burning the money or hurling it out of windows.

Then again, I’ve had folks bitching to ME about how awesome my life is and how lucky I am that I don’t have to deal with a union job with annoying coworkers and higher money than I’ve ever made in my life. God, I wanted to strangle them. It’s SIMPLE to have my life. I’ll tell you exactly how I did it in four easy steps:

1. Quit job.

2. Sell as many of your earthly possessions as possible.

3. Donate and dump as many of your remaining earthly possessions as possible.

4. Tread water as hard as you can.

BAM. You want my life so bad, shut up and just DO it, not collecting your cash and bitching.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

People have tics. They operate pretty consistently. Most people fall into a few pretty narrow persona’s. Its not too hard to read people.

This place has more than its share of bitterness. It smells like a million failed diets, and thousands of childhood rejections.

That’s why you smell like dirty sweatsocks, dried jizz, sweaty copies of Juggs, and tears from being rejected by every woman you come across.

Or did I read you wrong?

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
11 years ago

LBT, I have fat family members as well. And its always bothered me, the judgements and way they are treated by society at large. And how my grandmother was treated was a HUGE part of why both my mother and aunt developed serious cases of anorexia. I’ve dropped a lot of friends and aquaintances over the years because I won’t put up with people fat shaming and bullying.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: pillow in hell

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I didn’t develop my starvation habit due to fatphobia, but it still infuriates me how douchey people can be about someone else’s body, which is none of their business. Especially since my extended family is generally pretty awesome; that nutritionist aunt gave me some valuable advice on getting food into my face during a period where eating at all was very hard. (She’s the type of nutritionist that’s worked with everyone from queasy cancer patients to absent-minded World War II vets.)

titianblue
titianblue
11 years ago

You’re not Jewish, but you speak the lingo which isn’t common.

Racist much?

And apparently only rich, thin, attractive people can have valid opinions. You heard it here first.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
11 years ago

LBT, the number of wealthy people who see themselves as “just getting by” is astounding. Also, like I said, for they very very wealthy determing those who are friends and those hoping to profit isn’t fun. Also, a lot of fear is what drives people to accumulate wealth.

I hear where you’re coming from (spent quite a bit of my life in a similar boat). I think that either never having experienced poverty or having experienced it a long time ago makes it hard for them to empathize or even see your plight.

Some Gal Not Bored at All
Some Gal Not Bored at All
11 years ago

@LBT

I don’t even UNDERSTAND bitching about being rich.

Well, I did feel bad for the some of the kids in the documentary who got bullied or ostracized when really young. But, in general, I don’t really get it either.

I just know that lots of people with money do it.

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: pillow in hell

Yeah, I can understand that… but poor folks still have the filtration process. It just changes from filtering out leeches to filtering out people who are assholes about you being poor.

And I realize this is my own blindness and that it’s actually really easy to mount up a lot of costs (mortgage, student loans, insurance) but part of me is still like, “WHERE DO YOU PUT ALL OF YOUR MONEY? Where does it GO?”

LBT
LBT
11 years ago

RE: Some Gal

In that case, the issue is still with the bullies, not with the money, I’d think. (Though yeah, poor kids. Bullying is NEVER good.)

I have a couple wealthy friends, but they’ve had the grace to never bitch about it in front of me. (Bitching about your job is a different thing. I can recognize that even when you have a great job you like 90% of the time, 10% of the time can be a pain.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

The troll whine is even funnier when you consider how often I chime in to say that being shallow is OK, as long as you’re willing to accept that other people will be just as shallow in return. Project much, dude?

mxe354
mxe354
11 years ago

Well said, pillow in hell.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

Cassandra, no, no, no – women are shallow. Men have standards.

pillow in hell
pillow in hell
11 years ago

Rich people do spend a lot but the fear of being seen as poor also drives them to invest quite a sizable portion of their earnings.

In a way, they know what being poor means and they seek to avoid it. In other ways, like not being able to keep a roof over ones head, or not knowing when your next meal will be is beyond their ability to truly KNOW. So yes, they have problems, like everyone else, but without the grinding dread and humiliation that poor people routinely face they can’t empathize very well. Your flip side of searching for friends makes it possible for you and I to understand their issues and empathize on that.

pecunium
11 years ago

Naiï You were in the military, and you’re liberal. Thats unusual.

Less unusual than all that. We’ll just add that to the list of your naivte.

Same thing with attractive women. My attractive friends don’t complain about how being pretty gets them further along in life (admit it, it does)

Nice try, but I don’t admit it. Tell you what, as you’ve made this affirmative statement, prove it, or accept that you are wrong.

So, who are the people who complain about things?

Depends on what they complain of. Let’s look at your, “rich people are happy with things” idea. Warren Buffet. Bill Gates. Both of them (and Gates was born to well off parents. Yeah, he dropped out, but that was because he had a father willing to bankroll a hundred large in launching a company).

They are complaining about the way things are, and saying they ought to be different.

The Republican Party is complaining that they aren’t allowed to marginalise people. They are working to suppress the vote to make it possible for them to keep marginalising others.

So your thesis is incomplete, at best.

Yeah, and who’s the one complaining about it? What drives a person to complain about something like that unless its a raw issue for them?

What is raw about it? Oh right, that juries treat them unfairly. That people discriminate against them. That shitheads like you insult people they don’t know with weight, as if that were some measure of moral worth, or personal merit.

You aren’t helping your case, son.

On the flip side, I know lots of women with “good looks” who aren’t happy about it. Why? Because no one listens to them. They get told to make coffee, when they are the most qualified person in the room. They have Ph.Ds, and get ignored when the intern working on his BS opens his mouth. They are judged on their looks alone, and the rest of their person is considered irrelevant.

pecunium, its not you who complains about weight judgement. You can sympathize, but not empathize because its not happening to you.

The fuck you know about it. I get the flipside all right. I get told I don’t weigh enough. That I lack the manly physique. It’s not as pervasive, but having to cheat to get into the Army because I was below the minimum weight required does give one a certain sense of being discriminated against.

Try again at, “reading” me.

So, when I see complaints like that, guess about how I reached my conclusion.

You spin a just so story that matches your notions of how the world oght to work. In plainer English, you make shit up.

If you are able to come up with criteria, you probably have reasons for your beliefs. If you can’t, it probably means you hold your positions from a deeply emotive place, and not a logical one.

False dilemma, and a primary geek fallacy. Logic and emotion aren’t inseparable. One can have both. Pretending to an, “above emotions, all I do is look at the facts” is the geek fallacy. It’s bullshit.

Try again.

random6x7
random6x7
11 years ago

Oh, god, is this the same Diogenes who got banned from the Straight Dope? Dude, don’t you ever learn? Also, your group of friends must be tiny and homogenous. Even if I wasn’t a general social justice-type who thinks we all should be judged on character and not innate, unchangeable traits, I’d still be pro-gay and trans rights and anti-racism and so on because I don’t like seeing my friends shit on.

I am very glad I’ve never had to deal with the people who complained about being rich, although it may just be luck that the rich people I’ve been around have had enough class not to do it to the scholarship kid who grew up on welfare. Frankly, though, it’s more likely that they were the types not to realize they were rich, since I met most of them in private schools. Those people annoy me enough. I can’t image how you must feel dealing with your types, LBT.

(Hi, usual lurker, sometime poster here. I don’t know if anyone remembers me, but I feel awkward butting in on conversations)

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