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misogyny MRA PUA question time

Question Time: MRAs and PUAs in the real world

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And now back to our regularly scheduled post:

Reading through some of the stranger comments from MRAs and PUAs and other manospherean types I often find myself wondering to what degree this “new misogyny” reaches beyond the internet. I don’t mean old-fashioned misogyny and sexism, which are obviously fairly common offline. I mean the elaborate misogynistic ideologies we discuss here – the “feminism runs the world,” “all women are hypergamous bitches who will dump you in a second for an alpha,” “we hunted the mammoth to feed you” kind of stuff.

I run across much less of this offline than on, though the people I hang out with aren’t exactly a representative sampling of the general public.

So I’m asking you, dear readers, to tell me a bit about your own experiences. Do you run across MRAs/PUAs in the real world on a regular or even an irregular basis? Where (online or off) did you first encounter MRAs and/or PUAs? What aspects of what we might call the manosphere ideology are the most common offline? If it seems less common offline, is this because the beliefs are not that widespread, or is it that people are less willing to say the kind of horrific misogynistic shit they say online to other people face to face?

Thoughts?

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Ugh
Ugh
11 years ago

The response you got was because people read your words, and saw them as being supportive of him.

How?! What did I say at any point that indicated I agreed with any of his points?

He said real wages had decreased over the past 60 years. I pointed out that they had actually increased, substantially. That is just a factual statement.

Ugh
Ugh
11 years ago

Seriously, look at what you’re saying here: I disagreed with him, and argued my position honestly, but because I didn’t disagree in the Pecunium-approved correct way to disagree, I don’t deserve to be spoken to with respect.

ellex
11 years ago

I’m dropping by not to get into the conversation about economics (I will happily admit that it’s not my field), but to say that Hand-eze gloves have been a real life-saver…or rather, hand-saver, for me. My jobs for the last 15+ years have involved writing, typing, and mousing all day long, and one summer when I did a ton of overtime, I started getting a chronic ache in my hands. I found these gloves, and they really help. They offer a surprising amount of support while allowing full range of movement. They’re nice if you tend to get cold hands, too.

Happily, no sign of carpal tunnel yet. A co-worker developed that, and I’m almost paranoid about being aware of the symptoms.

My mother is starting to get some arthritis in her hands. The gloves really help her, too.

http://www.handezegloves.com/

Mom also used to do embroidery and used one of these for magnifying since she, too, wears glasses: The cord goes around your neck and the magnifier kind of sits on your chest.

http://www.amazon.com/Darice-Neck-Magnifier-on-Cord/dp/B005O58CFG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361413675&sr=8-2&keywords=embroidery+magnifying+glass

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

I never saw Ugh agreeing. They misread a graph (which Ugh noted), that was about it.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@ellex

One of my doctors cautioned against wearing gloves like that too often. As they weren’t really helping me, I stopped so I don’t know how often would be bad, but I’d recommend asking a doctor if anyone plans on wearing them a lot. (I also pulled a muscle in my shoulder from wearing a larger version because it changed the way I moved.)

Some Gal Not Bored at All

In case it matters, this was back before I was diagnosed and they hadn’t ruled out rheumatoid arthritis or carpal tunnel.

ellex24
ellex24
11 years ago

Oh look, a picture! How did that happen?! Must be the magic of Amazon.

Also, here: have a new Simon’s cat video. I need happy thoughts today.

http://youtu.be/Te4wx4jtiEA

pecunium
11 years ago

Ugh: I don’t deserve to be spoken to with respect.

What do you see as, “disrespect”?

ellex24
ellex24
11 years ago

Some Gal –

These are supposed to help prevent carpal tunnel. I’ve been wearing them off and on for about 6 years now, and they’ve really cut down on the ache from typing. I’ve also used them when using the weedwacker, because weedwackers aren’t designed for short people and using it makes my wrists ache.

My doctor, on learning what I do for a living and how long I’ve been doing it, was very much in support of my wearing the gloves anytime my hands start to ache.

But you have a point – if your hands are giving you enough trouble to seek out a doctor, then you should certainly ask if the gloves are appropriate.

But…a larger version? You may be thinking of a wrist brace? Hand-eze are entirely made of very thin cloth – they really shouldn’t change the way you move.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
11 years ago

Ellex, I’m glad you posted that link! Mum’s got a touch of arthritis in her wrist and I get achey hands occasionally (keyboard and mouse and knitting too). I’m going to check them out, with Some Gal’s proviso about not overusing them. 🙂

drst
drst
11 years ago

@pillow in hell – is there a LensCrafters or similar store near you? My Mom had cataract surgery and needed really strong reading glasses, stronger than what she could find in the typical displays in the Rite Aid type of store. They were able to help her find far stronger magnifications. She wore those in place of her glasses to read while she was without her prescription.

I don’t embroider. I used to do cross-stitch but – irony alert – it strained my eyes too much and I switched to knitting.

cloudiah
11 years ago

I didn’t read Ugh as agreeing with Drew, for what it’s worth.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@ellex

I was (at the time) alternating between a lot of different things including just ACE bandages. It may have been the wrist brace, but I was told it was because I was probably moving “wrong” because I had things on my hand. So, my understanding was that it could happen with any if them since it was my reaction and not the specific thing causing the problem.

One if the small braces I was given (it was light material like what you linked to plus a bit of metal support to hold the wrist at the right angle) was also specifically for carpal tunnel and was the one I was “wearing too much,” which was anytime it hurt or, y’know, all the time.

I’ve been really unlucky in that most of the things that work for most people seem to make things worse for me (from gloves to braces to drugs, all of it) and no one had warned me that could happen with most of it. 🙁

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@The Kittehs’

I hope they work! A (similar?) thing that helps my mom with her hand pain are compression gloves. I tried some and they made me cry it was so awful, but the physical therapists said that they help most people. I think the physical therapist said I could wear those as much as I wanted, but I was in a distracting amount of pain at the time.

My mom has a very physical, using her hands a lot job, and that is about all she’s found that helps.

Oh! The other thing that helps some people is a lidocaine cream. They are mostly sold for hemorrhoids, but a lot of people use it for pain anywhere (like leg waxing). There are stronger prescription-only (at least in the US) creams available, too. It is, for me, a bit shallow/superficial for my pain, but sometimes numbing just the outside of the hand is enough. I don’t know how well it would work for other causes of pain, but that might be something else to look into.

hrovitnir
hrovitnir
11 years ago

I get so behind on this site; I did miss lumi’s question, Kitty. Have replied now! A page or two later. 😛

Thank you ellex for the glove recommendation! I am only 27 and I get very achey hands so anything that might help would be great. I’m shitting myself that I might get early arthritis (not that these will help, but as an aside). I also have a bad back (from birth + injury at a young age), bad ankles (from being made to run inappropriately) and consequently aching knees, as well as some issues with my hips I think I need to get looked into. 🙁 /feeling sorry for myself.

The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
The Kittehs' Unpaid Help
11 years ago

Ellex – Mum uses Goanna arthritis cream and finds that helps, and wears a magnetic wrist bandage, and mostly finds they’re good, but on bad days I think she could do with something more. I want to look into those gloves though, because thin = good – most of the compression bandages and so on are too darn thick to work in.

Hrovitnir, I saw that, and just asked my own question in response! 😀

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@hrovitnir

Have you ever heard of a TENS unit? It send out tiny electrical impulses that stop your nerves from telling your brain “ow!” (basically, or like white noise for nerves). I love mine almost as much as I love my cat. I use it on my ankles, back, knees, shoulders, hips, hands and wrists, etc. They are (I think) prescription-only, but that might be worth looking into. It is a bit of an investment (even with insurance, mine costs more than I’d like), but it can be used everywhere but over your heart and your brain.

moreorlessdan
moreorlessdan
11 years ago

I don’t know that I have seen a lot of MRA or PUA activities out in the world. I was recently introduced to MRA’s online, and am still trying to make sense of how to interact with them. I have seen plenty of more “everyday” examples. Considering how horrible some of the examples of “mundane” sexism are I guess that says something.

I have encountered pua thinking out in the wild. It’s not uncommon for my nerdy friends to offer dating advice based on them. I have also heard some things like “ladder theory” get brought up.

I understand the appeal of pua. I’m nerdy and socially awkward. The thought of being able to work a conversation like an equation is comforting …… however no matter how many web ads or personal advice i get I just have never been able to try it. I couldn’t bring myself to treat people that way. I can’t watch that dancing video ’cause that guy is just … icky. And it’s an icky that touches my soul.

Honestly, most of the mra stuff i have encountered is on websites for comics,games, and assorted nerdery. There are fandoms that I just don’t frequent.

unrelated comment- sonichu? really? Wouldn’t surprise me if CWC was an mra. Though it also wouldn’t surprise me if someone was trolling as him either. Last I heard he was kinda quiet online and trying to avoid people due to the years of controversy.

Nitram
Nitram
11 years ago

Marie,

Glad it’s better now. I don’t think it’s being sheltered as much as it is sheltering yourself. People are ashamed to talk about their depression so we keep it to ourselves about the meds stigma, etc. in fact, I was sorta guilty of it in my previous post, leaving out the fact that I’ve suffered from depression most of my adult life. Yet I don’t consider my life a sad one. The depression just comes and hits me and it’s usually unrelated to any happenings in my life. In other words, my life situation could be going along swimmingly, but I’ll still get a bout of depression.

I made the mistake once of confiding in a coworker that my new meds were making me feel like crap and she said “what do you have to be depressed about? You have a nice husband, healthy family, blah blah.” I told her I had absolutely nothing to be depressed about. The depression itself is the problem. I have good things and challenging things in my life just like anyone else. Depression is, for me anyway, independent of situation.
And this is why I keep it to myself: morons like that shake me up. Like I have to prove it to them.

Glad you have a sister who helped you. It’s always good to have a supportive person who can see the depression and help practically. My hubby does that for me. He’s able to spot it coming on better than me, and can help get my ass to the doc, when I frankly, am not able to when in the thick of it. That practical help makes it so much more manageable. 🙂

Best of luck to you!

ellex24
ellex24
11 years ago

The Hand-eze gloves are very like compression gloves, but very thin and not as tight. Personally, I can’t wear them for more than a few hours at a time. They don’t exactly get uncomfortable, but I feel like I’ve had them on long enough. Then again, my current pair are fairly new and still snug.

They should be snug but not tight. They’re washable, too, so if they get dirty or a little too loose, just throw them in the wash and the elastic fabric will tighten up.

Kitteh and Some Gal – have you tried Arnica montana? I’m finding homeopathic remedies are pretty effective. It’s really hard to find Arnica in a beeswax or petrolatum/lanoiin base, but if you can find it, I highly recommend it. Unfortunately, most topical forms of Arnica are alcohol based gels and creams, and the effects don’t last nearly as long as the beeswax and petrolatum/lanolin based versions do.

It’s great on my mother’s arthritic ankle and strained hamstring. She broke her ankle some years ago (running after Tigwell!) and the doctor said she needed to have the ankle rebroken because the bone had healed slightly crooked and she’d have arthritis. She declined. Now she has arthritis in the ankle she didn’t break, but the one she did break is just fine. Go figure!

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
11 years ago

Did y’all hear about the 11-year-old cancer patient who spontaneously caught on fire?

…Sorry, just didn’t think this thread was grim enough yet. :p

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@ellex

Thansk. I’ll have to try it. (I’ll have to use one of the alcohol-based ones though because I can barely handle that type of sensation on my hands when they are really bad. I’ve had to stop using any kind of lotion because the feeling of having something heavy coating my hands lasts for hours. Even the lidocaine gel I have takes a bit for the feeling of having sealed in the burning heat to go away and that feels cool and starts to numb pretty quickly.)

It doesn’t feel hot, does it? One of the things I saw when I looked it up described it as a heating cream like Ben-Gay, but not burning.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@Bagelsan

You just wait until your body breaks down. Young whippersnappers…mtermuttermutter.

/is 30.

ellex24
ellex24
11 years ago

Some Gal –

No, there’s no additional sensation other than whatever is used for the base. My mother and I mainly prefer the beeswax or petrolatum base because it seems to last longer. But the other types are effective too. It’s not numbing. It does make the pain stop. It’s not effective for everybody or for all types of pain, though.

There are several places online that sell homeopathic remedies. I’ve seen it on Amazon, too. Google “homeopathy” and look for Arnica or Arnica montana. Most of what you’ll see are the oral versions, which is great for bruising and minor injuries, but doesn’t seem to work as well on chronic aches.

FYI – sometimes homeopathic remedies for pain make it hurt a little worse before it feels better. I really haven’t experienced this with the Arnica, but I have experienced it with a combination remedy for minor burns and cuts. It lasts maybe 5-10 seconds and then relief! With Arnica I usually find that the relief from the ache is so subtle I don’t even realize it doesn’t hurt anymore.

Some Gal Not Bored at All

@ellex

Good! (I was scared.)

The problem with the extra bit if pain is that it won’t go away. I mean, with fibromyalgia, the problem is that my nerves send their “everything is fine” signals and my brain hears “Ahh! We’re on fire!” or “Oh no! Somethings been cut off!” So when my nerves actually send a legit “Oh, shit!” message, my brain won’t stop hearing it until long after it’s over. So, I am very careful. Just trying to open a closed too tightly bottle of soda is pretty much rugburn on my palms for over 30 minutes.

My physical therapists were pretty insistent that I not make the pain worse because it will stay worse and then we have to really struggle to get it back down. So, I tend to be really cautious.