Cloudiah found this amazingly awful rant — from a prolific manosphere commenter and Spearhead supporter by the name of Jacob Ian Stalk — in the comments section to a piece on feminism in The Tab Oxford, a student paper. She posted it in the comments here on Man Boobz, where it’s already generated a good deal of discussion (see comments here, here, here, and here for starters). But I thought it deserved a post of its own.
So without further ado, I present Jacob Ian Stalk’s “12-Step Program for Recovering Feminists.”
Equality is equality. Feminism is about the unbridled pursuit of power for women. Got that?
Uh, no, actually, because it’s not true, but please continue.
The age of feminism is over, thankfully. The comments here that support feminism are from the rats that refuse to leave the sinking ship, thinking there’s sustenance still to be found there somewhere. Sorry to disappoint, but there is nothing nutritious left.
So the ship is sinking at the very moment it’s run out of food that rats can eat. That’s quite a coincidence! Or is it sinking because it ran out of food? Were the dudes on the ship using rat food to plug holes in the hull?
Men the world over are waking up to the damage wrought by rampant feminism and they’re shocked to realise it all happened while they were asleep. Well, they’re asleep no more. Bleat all you like about feminism being about this or that, but the truth of it’s evil is written all over the once noble institutions of the world and the wishful bleatings of solipsistic girl-children can’t erase it. It is done. The cailphate is establishing its power base once more and Sharia law is spreading.
Huh? Because of feminism? Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Feminists have destroyed the family and have eschewed child-bearing in favour of credentialism and the illusion of success, killing their unborn children and robbing men of their will to be fathers and husbands. The laugh is on you, Western feminists, as Western birth rates have at last fallen below their replenishment rate and the Muslims are laughing all the way to the maternity wards.
Oh, dear, you got some racism in your misogyny. Two terrible tastes that taste worse together!
The best you can hope for, Western women, is to abandon feminism entirely. Abandon that idiotic notion of ‘equality’, as it will never happen. All it has earned you is the disrespect of men and an increasing number of women the world over. Feminism doesn’t make you strong. It doesn’t make you powerful. It doesn’t make you free. And it sure as hell doesn’t make you equal. It just makes you despicable.
Wait, weren’t you just complaining that feminism is about female supremacy? Now you’re admitting that it’s actually about equality – and you’re preaching male supremacy in its place?
Abandon feminism. Here’s a 12-step program for recovering feminists. There are others.
Ok, here we go.
1. Don’t be narcissistic. Never think you’re more important than men or children. Marketing departments delight in exploiting the feminist fallacy that you are. They promote ‘women’s only’ this and that, and women have bought into it. This appears sexist but it is really a marketing ploy that works because most women are narcissistic. Companies know they can charge more for goods and services by using the words ‘women only’. Narcissistic women are easily exploitable women. Be neither.
Huh. Isn’t the Men’s Rights Movement all about exploiting the narcissism of men who think they’re more important than women? (And children – at least in the case of the MRAs who whine endlessly about how unfair it is they can’t financially abandon their kids.)
2. Don’t let others make choices for you. This should be self-evident but for most of your life you’ve allowed yourself to be told what to wear, what to buy, what to eat, how to dress, where to go, how to think – in clubs, gyms, magazines, websites, books, stores and by TV talk show hosts. You’ve ‘needed’ a step-by-step guide through life, which you’ve followed with your sisters like sheep. Companies have exploited this need. Behave like a sheep if you must but obey the sheepdog, not the wolf. Better yet, be a woman who can think for herself.
… so long as “thinking for yourself” means “thinking you’re inferior to men and generally thinking the way men who hate women want you to.”
3. Get rid of the self-induced schizophrenia. Don’t insist you’re strong, confident, capable and independent one minute, then weak, frightened and vulnerable the next, especially when you’ve been caught doing something wrong. Don’t chop and change whenever it suits you – learn about who you are and be true. Admit when you’ve done something wrong. Don’t suddenly remember that you suffered abuse in the past or have some kind of mental illness or other instability, then use it to get yourself off. If you never sought help for these problems before you were caught, don’t use them as an excuse afterwards. Accept responsibility for yourself.
And for everything bad that men do as well, as manospherians repeatedly insist. If men are violent, it’s because women (allegedly) like dating violent men. If men brutalize the women in their life, it’s because the women provoke them. If a man arms himself with high-powered weapons and massacres children, his mom is to the real villain. For manospherians and MRAs generally, “responsiblity” means “a woman is always to blame.”
4. Don’t let the law take responsibility for crimes women commit. Speak out against women routinely receiving shorter sentences than men for the same crimes. If the law punishes women as it does children, treat them like children and encourage others to do so too. Don’t call these women ‘victims’ and say “they’ve suffered enough” because they’re women. Believe in, and stand up for, equal justice on the basis of gender.
Women do tend to receive shorter sentences than men for the same crimes. But this isn’t the fault of feminism. Indeed, female judges are slightly more likely to give women harsher sentence than male judges, possibly reflecting paternalistic attitudes on the part of male judges.
5. Don’t believe everything women and feminised men in the media tell you. Many serve up slop by the bucket – celebrity gossip, slimming tips, sex tips, man-shaming tips, rape and abuse lies, etc. TV shows like Oprah and Dr Phil are filled with advice on how women can transform themselves into victims and blame everything on men, while constantly ridiculing them. Partake of more nutritious fare than this. Get your infotainment from equitable programs. Be aware of the cultural status quo from both perspectives.
I have no idea what Jacob here would consider an “equitable” program, but, really, no one of any gender should be getting life advice from Dr. Phil.
6. Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public. Don’t pretend that all women are your best friends when everyone knows nothing could be further from the truth. Openly acknowledge the reality that women despise each other unless there’s personal advantage in not doing so. Most good men can see through these attempts at deception, so lies won’t travel far. Don’t be a liar, especially not an obvious one.
I have no idea what the fuck he’s going on about here. “Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public??” Do women who hate each other march around Jacob’s neighborhood arm-in-arm, pretending to be BFFs and singing the Lady Internationale? (“Arise, you prisoners of menstruation … .“)
7. Don’t seek equality with men. Masculinity and femininity are inherently different. They are neither equals nor opposites, but different parts of the sexual continuum that can’t be defined from each other. Actively separate masculinity from femininity, and separate both from the sexual politics that keep them in healthy tension. Don’t claim women can do anything men can do until you start producing your own sperm.
Um, what? Is Kate Bush not a brilliant musician because she doesn’t have balls? Is Joan Didion not a brilliant writer because she can’t jizz into a sock?
Not every sperm producer is sacred.
8. Don’t demonize male sexuality or the male sex. Both sexes can be evil, both can be virtuous. Empathy, wisdom, grace, mercy, compassion and love are all as masculine as they are feminine. Don’t invaginate our boys by shaming or medicating the masculinity out of them before it matures and don’t impregnate them with the corrosive lie that being a woman is like being a man only better. Male sexuality is a pearl to be cultured. Suffuse your sons egos with promise if you want your daughters to have good men to love.
Uh, “invaginate?” Invaginate means to “be turned inside out or folded back on itself to form a cavity or pouch.” I’m pretty sure that teaching boys not to rape their dates does not in any way, literally or figuratively, turn them into a pouch.
9. Respect the sanctuaries of men. Men are judged much more harshly than women so they need their safe retreat. They don’t have the same opportunities for emotional support as women so they need a place where they can express themselves free of judgment and ridicule. This place must be respected. Take care if you venture there as your feminine narcissism is the enemy. Don’t draw attention to yourself and don’t expect protection if you do. If you must speak don’t attempt to control the dialogue or steer it towards you. Don’t censor language to suit your sensitivities. Male sanctuary is sacred – treat it as you would a cathedral.
Dudes, if you want to start your own little clubhouses where you can call women “cunts” in peace and quiet, go ahead and do it. Just don’t pretend they’re about anything more than misogyny. And if you put these allegedly sacred sanctuaries on the internet, don’t be surprised if some people take offence. Oh, and don’t claim that, say, video games, or STEM fields, or atheism, or whatever male-heavy thing you’re into, is a “male sanctuary” that need to be protected from evil girl germs.
Some male spaces can be totally awesome:
Others, not so awesome.
10. Don’t use shaming tactics. Don’t accuse men of having anger management issues when they’re angry at injustice. Don’t accuse them of being a threat when they call you out for being a bigot or a tyrant. Don’t accuse them of having a fear of commitment when they’re merely making a choice between bravery and stupidity. Don’t assess the merit of their arguments on the basis of their attractiveness to you. Don’t attribute their views about women to past disappointments when it is merely an objective assessment of your sex. Shaming tactics are remnants of childhood so leave them in the nursery if you want to be taken seriously.
I think this one just broke the irony meter. It’s not like manosphere dudes ever use shaming language aimed at anyone.
A word of warning here. The next paragraph is the worst one in the whole manifesto, and, honestly, one of the worst things I’ve run across in my more than two years of doing this blog. TRIGGER WARNING for rape apologia.
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11. Be honest about sexual harassment. If you assert that you have the right to dress as you please and that men should be able to control their sexuality, honour their right to be shielded from yours. If you don’t want men to control themselves but instead want to control their loss of control for your own enjoyment, be prepared for the consequences when things go awry. If ‘harassment’ – the stares, sexual innuendos, sly touches, and even rape – magically cease to be harassment and become the foundations of a passionate new romance occasionally, admit that you don’t really want men to control themselves. Don’t expect men to know when it’s right to ‘harass’ you and when it’s not. Don’t treat Man one minute as an exciting and courageous hero and the next a monster intent on tyranny and abuse if you’re inconsistent in your sexual intentions and desires.
Woah. Let’s take another look at that especially terrible comment in the middle of that mess:
If ‘harassment’ – the stares, sexual innuendos, sly touches, and even rape – magically cease to be harassment and become the foundations of a passionate new romance occasionally, admit that you don’t really want men to control themselves.
I’ve got no jokes for this one. You honestly think that RAPE can be “the foundation of a passionate new romance?” What the fuck is wrong with you?
12. Speak out against misandry. The main reason for its proliferation is that women have remained silent. Silence in the face of injustice is cowardly. It has allowed loud, obnoxious women to preach hatred with impunity, which has reflected badly on all women. When you speak out against misandry you do all women a favour. Don’t be a misandrist, don’t be a coward and don’t be silent.
At this point, I really don’t think I need to bother to point out the hypocrisy here.
Look
I don’t care if you’ll take more care in an update.
I care if you fix things in your “update” (not just take care) and accept that it is just not a good idea for a man to try to explain to a woman how to act.
You can say you’ll “take more care”, but your actions here have made it seem that you will respond to criticism in a on-the-surface polite manner, yet not really change anything except empty words about how you’ll attempt to take more care in the future.
it would be great if you did, but I do not have high expectations for someone who thinks feminism is about the rule of women
Proposed update.
“After giving the matter some thought I have now realized that feminists really aren’t interested in what I have to say about how they should run their movement, and that it was comically arrogant of me to assume that they would. I will now resolve to restrain my urge to comment on things I know very little about, lest I publicly embarrass myself in such a way again. I apologize for my hubris, and I won’t be bothering you again.”
Respect the sanctuaries of feminists, bro.
(Did that sound wanky and pretentious enough? Hmm, needs more splaining, I think.)
Something tells me Jacob won’t take that very good advice, marinerachel.
Jacob, take time out to check the arrogance that allows you to think that anyone wants your advice.
“Perhaps simplifying the message will help.”
I agree. The list started out being much longer and it took a long time to trim it down into the format our host has posted here. It’s a process of distillation.
“Jacob, feminists are not interested in your advice as to how they should conduct themselves. If they do want your advice, they will ask. Notice how they’re not doing that?”
How many people who write do so because someone asks for their opinion?
“Go plant your seeds in a field that wants you there. This is not that field, nor is any other feminist space.”
My invitation to be here is in the fact that my name is referenced to the article in question and my desire to take responsibility for it. The right thing to do is let the good people here ask questions directly of me, correct misunderstandings, vent their frustrations…or mock and ridicule if they want. I appreciate that people here don’t like what I wrote, so I’m here to learn how I can do better.
Sigh.
He has already decided that he is doing this to update his list, and so, nothing we say will persuade him that he is wrong. After all, we are not people with feelings, we are stimulus response units that he can work with until he gets the “proper” response in his mind.
We are never going to get through to him, because Jacob has already decided that our perspective is irrelevant, our opinions at best curiousities, our feelings silly and our questions merely “Update guidelines”. He’s the guy with the stick poking an anthill, not because he cares about ants, but because it’s fun when they get mad. He’s the guy with the full control of the text environment disregarding other people’s input because he has already decided that this is just a sensation experiment.
Hence the phrase MUDblinder – taken from the notion of text based roleplaying interfaces and the kind of people who would invade a space like that and go on to mess about for no reason but to see what it feels like and what they do in response.
The lesson you are being taught is in fact that it was foolish of you to write that column in the first place. If you are incapable of absorbing this lesson, that’s your own fault. “Nobody is interested in your opinions on this subject” is not a difficult message to understand.
There’s a difference between writing unasked out of knowledge and ignorance. Or even writing unasked while being respectful or not. I have a tumblr, I write random stuff for people to see and no one asks me to. But I don’t use it to try to tell groups I’ve never met how to live their life.
If you’re going to give random advice to people who you don’t know anything about and who don’t like you, what makes you think you’d get whatever reaction it is you desire?
BRB, Imma go tell airplane mechanics how they could improve their safety protocols. What do you mean, the fact that I’m not a mechanic and I know very little about planes makes this a pointless exercise likely to meet with bemused contempt?
The difference Jacob is that most writers actually know something about the subject so as not to embarrass themselves the way you have.
“He has already decided that he is doing this to update his list, and so, nothing we say will persuade him that he is wrong. After all, we are not people with feelings, we are stimulus response units that he can work with until he gets the “proper” response in his mind.”
The list bears updating, hopefully with all the grappling points removed, not because I believe I’m right but because I want to get to the truth. My entry point was through the MRM, so it stands to reason my writing will have that flavor. With your help (and others like you), something resembling the truth will hopefully emerge.
“We are never going to get through to him, because Jacob has already decided that our perspective is irrelevant, our opinions at best curiousities, our feelings silly and our questions merely “Update guidelines”.
No-one’s perspective is irrelevant and no-one’s feelings are silly, but they can sometimes be unhelpful when expressed openly (such as my list), so sometimes they ought to change. I believe both can change with grace and well-intentioned persuasion.
If you want to get the truth, talk less and listen more. If you actually want to educate yourself on gender roles, the patriarchy, and equality, what you need to do is find a feminist 101 site and educate yourself
Why on earth would you think that you’re the right person to get at the truth? What are your qualifications, other than egotism?
Jacob, seriously–who do you think you are to try to get to the “truth?” I really do want to know why you think a.) you’re the right dude for this job, and b.) why you think any woman should listen to you at all.
“If you’re going to give random advice to people who you don’t know anything about and who don’t like you, what makes you think you’d get whatever reaction it is you desire?”
How do you know what reaction it is that I desire, or if I desired a reaction at all?
I want to get at the truth in whichever forum I’m writing. Sometimes it gets a bit extreme, like that Oxford University magazine thread in which our host found my list, other times is it much more even-handed. There are elements of truth in almost everything I write but, imperfect as I am, I sometimes get things wrong and sometimes jump to the wrong conclusions. We all need the benefit of other people’s perspectives to stay on the narrow path towards truth.
“The difference Jacob is that most writers actually know something about the subject so as not to embarrass themselves the way you have.”
I feel no embarrassment whatsoever in asking for help from those who do.
Jacob: why would people you’ve insulted want to help you?
I think someone’s been told what a special little snowflake he is all his life. That would explain the giant ego.
Do not ask us for help; we do not want to give it to you.
you said so in the OP
You wanted western women to abandon feminism.
You know, when you state your goals, you really can’t obfuscate them later..
And look, you’re getting the benefit of other people’s perspectives right here! What they’re telling you is that you do not appear to have anything useful to contribute to this topic, and you should drop it.
They are also telling you that they are not interested in helping you. And yet here you are, still pestering them and refusing to take their perspectives on board. Hypocrisy isn’t a good look, you know.
“Why on earth would you think that you’re the right person to get at the truth? What are your qualifications, other than egotism?”
Everyone is the “right person” to seek truth. I don’t think ego is needed. Courage, perhaps, particularly when those who can help are resistant to it because they’re struggling to overcome their own bias. What qualifications are needed for truth-seeking, other than desire and courage?
Intelligence, for one. Sincerity would also help. An acknowledgement of the fact that no one is under any obligation to give you their time and attention would be even more useful.
But mostly an understanding of the fact that just because your parents think you’re a very special boy that doesn’t mean that anyone outside your family agrees with them.
Jacob, ego is all you have.
“You know, when you state your goals, you really can’t obfuscate them later..”
Making a statement is not the same as desiring a reaction, although one should probably expect one. It seems reasonable to make oneself available for criticism when the reaction comes.
Be fair, hellkell. He also has a strong interest in acting.
(David – pretty sure this guy isn’t who he claims to be. You may want to check the email etc, since that’s a no-no here.)
“An acknowledgement of the fact that no one is under any obligation to give you their time and attention would be even more useful.”
I acknowledge this unreservedly. I’m very grateful for the time and attention all of you have given to helping me understand new perspectives.