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a woman is always to blame antifeminism atheism block that metaphor domestic violence entitled babies evil sexy ladies evil single moms evil women excusing abuse girl germs grandiosity hypocrisy irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misandry misogyny MRA narcissism no girls allowed oppressed men playing the victim precious bodily fluids pussy pass rapey reactionary bullshit sexual harassment single mothers the sound of his own voice

Feminists! Give up your misandry, accept that women are inferior, and oh, this MRA rant gets worse. Much worse.

Whatever this kid is saying is guaranteed to be smarter and less offensive than Jacob Ian Stalk's horrific rant
Whatever this kid is saying is guaranteed to be smarter and less offensive than Jacob Ian Stalk’s horrific rant

Cloudiah found this amazingly awful rant — from a prolific manosphere commenter and Spearhead supporter by the name of Jacob Ian Stalk — in the comments section to a piece on feminism in The Tab Oxford, a student paper. She posted it in the comments here on Man Boobz, where it’s already generated a good deal of discussion (see comments here, here, here, and here for starters). But I thought it deserved a post of its own.

So without further ado, I present Jacob Ian Stalk’s “12-Step Program for Recovering Feminists.”

Equality is equality. Feminism is about the unbridled pursuit of power for women. Got that?

Uh, no, actually, because it’s not true, but please continue.

The age of feminism is over, thankfully. The comments here that support feminism are from the rats that refuse to leave the sinking ship, thinking there’s sustenance still to be found there somewhere. Sorry to disappoint, but there is nothing nutritious left.

So the ship is sinking at the very moment it’s run out of food that rats can eat. That’s quite a coincidence! Or is it sinking because it ran out of food? Were the dudes on the ship using rat food to plug holes in the hull?

Men the world over are waking up to the damage wrought by rampant feminism and they’re shocked to realise it all happened while they were asleep. Well, they’re asleep no more. Bleat all you like about feminism being about this or that, but the truth of it’s evil is written all over the once noble institutions of the world and the wishful bleatings of solipsistic girl-children can’t erase it. It is done. The cailphate is establishing its power base once more and Sharia law is spreading.

Huh? Because of feminism? Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Feminists have destroyed the family and have eschewed child-bearing in favour of credentialism and the illusion of success, killing their unborn children and robbing men of their will to be fathers and husbands. The laugh is on you, Western feminists, as Western birth rates have at last fallen below their replenishment rate and the Muslims are laughing all the way to the maternity wards.

Oh, dear, you got some racism in your misogyny. Two terrible tastes that taste worse together!

The best you can hope for, Western women, is to abandon feminism entirely. Abandon that idiotic notion of ‘equality’, as it will never happen.  All it has earned you is the disrespect of men and an increasing number of women the world over. Feminism doesn’t make you strong. It doesn’t make you powerful. It doesn’t make you free. And it sure as hell doesn’t make you equal. It just makes you despicable.

Wait, weren’t you just complaining that feminism is about female supremacy? Now you’re admitting that it’s actually about equality – and you’re preaching male supremacy in its place?

Abandon feminism. Here’s a 12-step program for recovering feminists. There are others.

Ok, here we go.

1. Don’t be narcissistic. Never think you’re more important than men or children. Marketing departments delight in exploiting the feminist fallacy that you are. They promote ‘women’s only’ this and that, and women have bought into it. This appears sexist but it is really a marketing ploy that works because most women are narcissistic. Companies know they can charge more for goods and services by using the words ‘women only’. Narcissistic women are easily exploitable women. Be neither.

Huh. Isn’t the Men’s Rights Movement all about exploiting the narcissism of men who think they’re more important than women? (And children – at least in the case of the MRAs who whine endlessly about how unfair it is they can’t financially abandon their kids.)

2. Don’t let others make choices for you. This should be self-evident but for most of your life you’ve allowed yourself to be told what to wear, what to buy, what to eat, how to dress, where to go, how to think – in clubs, gyms, magazines, websites, books, stores and by TV talk show hosts. You’ve ‘needed’ a step-by-step guide through life, which you’ve followed with your sisters like sheep. Companies have exploited this need. Behave like a sheep if you must but obey the sheepdog, not the wolf. Better yet, be a woman who can think for herself.

… so long as “thinking for yourself” means “thinking you’re inferior to men and generally thinking the way men who hate women want you to.”

3. Get rid of the self-induced schizophrenia. Don’t insist you’re strong, confident, capable and independent one minute, then weak, frightened and vulnerable the next, especially when you’ve been caught doing something wrong. Don’t chop and change whenever it suits you – learn about who you are and be true. Admit when you’ve done something wrong. Don’t suddenly remember that you suffered abuse in the past or have some kind of mental illness or other instability, then use it to get yourself off. If you never sought help for these problems before you were caught, don’t use them as an excuse afterwards. Accept responsibility for yourself.

And for everything bad that men do as well, as manospherians repeatedly insist. If men are violent, it’s because women (allegedly) like dating violent men. If men brutalize the women in their life, it’s because the women provoke them. If a man arms himself with high-powered weapons and massacres children, his mom is to the real villain. For manospherians and MRAs generally, “responsiblity” means “a woman is always to blame.”

4. Don’t let the law take responsibility for crimes women commit. Speak out against women routinely receiving shorter sentences than men for the same crimes. If the law punishes women as it does children, treat them like children and encourage others to do so too. Don’t call these women ‘victims’ and say “they’ve suffered enough” because they’re women. Believe in, and stand up for, equal justice on the basis of gender.

Women do tend to receive shorter sentences than men for the same crimes. But this isn’t the fault of feminism. Indeed, female judges are slightly more likely to give women harsher sentence than male judges, possibly reflecting paternalistic attitudes on the part of male judges.

5. Don’t believe everything women and feminised men in the media tell you. Many serve up slop by the bucket – celebrity gossip, slimming tips, sex tips, man-shaming tips, rape and abuse lies, etc. TV shows like Oprah and Dr Phil are filled with advice on how women can transform themselves into victims and blame everything on men, while constantly ridiculing them. Partake of more nutritious fare than this. Get your infotainment from equitable programs. Be aware of the cultural status quo from both perspectives.

I have no idea what Jacob here would consider an “equitable” program, but, really, no one of any gender should be getting life advice from Dr. Phil.

6. Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public. Don’t pretend that all women are your best friends when everyone knows nothing could be further from the truth. Openly acknowledge the reality that women despise each other unless there’s personal advantage in not doing so. Most good men can see through these attempts at deception, so lies won’t travel far. Don’t be a liar, especially not an obvious one.

I have no idea what the fuck he’s going on about here. “Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public??” Do women who hate each other march around Jacob’s neighborhood arm-in-arm, pretending to be BFFs and singing the Lady Internationale? (“Arise, you prisoners of menstruation …  .“)

7. Don’t seek equality with men. Masculinity and femininity are inherently different. They are neither equals nor opposites, but different parts of the sexual continuum that can’t be defined from each other. Actively separate masculinity from femininity, and separate both from the sexual politics that keep them in healthy tension. Don’t claim women can do anything men can do until you start producing your own sperm.

Um, what? Is Kate Bush not a brilliant musician because she doesn’t have balls? Is Joan Didion not a brilliant writer because she can’t jizz into a sock?

Not every sperm producer is sacred.

8. Don’t demonize male sexuality or the male sex. Both sexes can be evil, both can be virtuous. Empathy, wisdom, grace, mercy, compassion and love are all as masculine as they are feminine. Don’t invaginate our boys by shaming or medicating the masculinity out of them before it matures and don’t impregnate them with the corrosive lie that being a woman is like being a man only better. Male sexuality is a pearl to be cultured. Suffuse your sons egos with promise if you want your daughters to have good men to love.

Uh, “invaginate?” Invaginate means to “be turned inside out or folded back on itself to form a cavity or pouch.” I’m pretty sure that teaching boys not to rape their dates does not in any way, literally or figuratively, turn them into a pouch.

9. Respect the sanctuaries of men. Men are judged much more harshly than women so they need their safe retreat. They don’t have the same opportunities for emotional support as women so they need a place where they can express themselves free of judgment and ridicule. This place must be respected. Take care if you venture there as your feminine narcissism is the enemy. Don’t draw attention to yourself and don’t expect protection if you do. If you must speak don’t attempt to control the dialogue or steer it towards you. Don’t censor language to suit your sensitivities. Male sanctuary is sacred – treat it as you would a cathedral.

Dudes, if you want to start your own little clubhouses where you can call women “cunts” in peace and quiet, go ahead and do it. Just don’t pretend they’re about anything more than misogyny. And if you put these allegedly sacred sanctuaries on the internet, don’t be surprised if some people take offence. Oh, and don’t claim that, say, video games, or STEM fields, or atheism, or whatever male-heavy thing you’re into, is a “male sanctuary” that need to be protected from evil girl germs.

Some male spaces can be totally awesome:

Others, not so awesome.

10. Don’t use shaming tactics. Don’t accuse men of having anger management issues when they’re angry at injustice. Don’t accuse them of being a threat when they call you out for being a bigot or a tyrant. Don’t accuse them of having a fear of commitment when they’re merely making a choice between bravery and stupidity. Don’t assess the merit of their arguments on the basis of their attractiveness to you. Don’t attribute their views about women to past disappointments when it is merely an objective assessment of your sex. Shaming tactics are remnants of childhood so leave them in the nursery if you want to be taken seriously.

I think this one just broke the irony meter. It’s not like manosphere dudes ever use shaming language aimed at anyone.

A word of warning here. The next paragraph is the worst one in the whole manifesto, and, honestly, one of the worst things I’ve run across in my more than two years of doing this blog. TRIGGER WARNING for rape apologia.

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11. Be honest about sexual harassment. If you assert that you have the right to dress as you please and that men should be able to control their sexuality, honour their right to be shielded from yours. If you don’t want men to control themselves but instead want to control their loss of control for your own enjoyment, be prepared for the consequences when things go awry. If ‘harassment’ – the stares, sexual innuendos, sly touches, and even rape – magically cease to be harassment and become the foundations of a passionate new romance occasionally, admit that you don’t really want men to control themselves. Don’t expect men to know when it’s right to ‘harass’ you and when it’s not. Don’t treat Man one minute as an exciting and courageous hero and the next a monster intent on tyranny and abuse if you’re inconsistent in your sexual intentions and desires.

Woah. Let’s take another look at that especially terrible comment in the middle of that mess:

If ‘harassment’ – the stares, sexual innuendos, sly touches, and even rape – magically cease to be harassment and become the foundations of a passionate new romance occasionally, admit that you don’t really want men to control themselves.

I’ve got no jokes for this one. You honestly think that RAPE can be “the foundation of a passionate new romance?” What the fuck is wrong with you?

12. Speak out against misandry. The main reason for its proliferation is that women have remained silent. Silence in the face of injustice is cowardly. It has allowed loud, obnoxious women to preach hatred with impunity, which has reflected badly on all women. When you speak out against misandry you do all women a favour. Don’t be a misandrist, don’t be a coward and don’t be silent.

At this point, I really don’t think I need to bother to point out the hypocrisy here.

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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Thing is, even if you put aside the issue with trans exclusion for a moment, women’s groups came about and may still be necessary because of the fact that men are socialized to talk over women in groups and ignore issues that are specific to us. What equivalent reason is there for men’s groups to exist? What problem are male-only groups solving?

Dvärghundspossen
11 years ago

@Cassandra: Well, I can think of situations where men would want a men-only group for legitimate reasons. Suppose there was a group for hetero-men where they discussed legitimate anxieties about sex and gender roles. Like how men are supposed to be “active” and be the “performers” and stuff like that. You don’t have to be an MRA or a misogynistic douche-bag to discuss that kind of questions, and I can see how some men might feel more comfortable discussions such issues in a men-only space.

One can probably come up with more examples.

STILL, the “male sanctuaries” talked about in this list – I get the feeling he mean like, gaming, and male gamers ought to be free to have as much misogynistic banter they want to and female gamers who enter that “male sanctuary” ought to just shut up and adapt rather than trying to change things. “Don’t draw attention to yourself and don’t expect protection if you do. If you must speak don’t attempt to control the dialogue or steer it towards you. Don’t censor language to suit your sensitivities.”

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Yeah, the male sanctuaries they’re talking about are things like, well, the internet. I’m assuming that we’re not even talking about that in terms of MDubz’s point.

I can see the need for some specific male-only groups – what about men who’ve been raped by women, or abused by women when they were kids? It would make sense for them to want a space with no women around. But a parenting group that excludes women? That sounds sketchy to me.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

Having thought about it more, and consumed more coffee, I can see the need for gendered groups. But they’d have to be trans* inclusive and let non-binaries attend where they’re comfortable. Idk, I remain unable to find a suitable way to solve “non-binaries need support groups for things like rape” and “female rape survivors may not be comfortable with a male-ish non-binary in their group”. And I would think that if we’re talking physically meeting, there wouldn’t be enough non-binaries in a reasonable, distance for even a general non-binary group, forget a topic specific one. And yeah, gatekeeping is bad.

Also, for all support groups, shouldn’t “if you feel comfortable here and aren’t disruptive” be the bar for entry? Maybe more things depending (eg, expecting a baby is a perfectly reasonable requirement for a Lamaze class…must be a woman not so much, sure, the vast majority will be, but not required)

I’m thinking out load again >.<

katz
11 years ago

Question: Would you guys say that the need for gender-restricted spaces is due to problematic gender relations (eg, men talking over women), or do you think there’s some amount of inherent need that would still exist if we didn’t have gender problems?

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Hmm. I think that groups centered around recovery from violence inflicted by Group X will always have some need to exclude members of Group X, even if Group X could be socialized to respect other people’s right to speak. I mean, there are men now who don’t talk over women, and women in a group that’s all about recovering from rape or domestic violence in a group therapy kind of way still might not want them there, at least in some situations.

I’m thinking in particular of therapy stuff that’s very hands on. Women further into recovery might benefit from having safe, trustworthy men involved, but people who’re just starting that process? Maybe not so much. And I’d think it would probably work the same way for men who’d been victimized by women too.

katz
11 years ago

I can see the need to make an exception where the excluded group is the actual problem (eg, a domestic violence support group). That’s rather like not randomly bringing spiders to an arachnophobia meeting or some such.

But then what do you do for people who were victimized by people of the same gender?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
11 years ago

@Katz

Question: Would you guys say that the need for gender-restricted spaces is due to problematic gender relations (eg, men talking over women), or do you think there’s some amount of inherent need that would still exist if we didn’t have gender problems?

I think most of it is down to gender-relations stuff. In a truly equal society where women weren’t so often under the threat of male violence and male-female rape wasn’t so rooted in misogyny, there may even be fewer women survivors who feared men as a group. Like, while my caution around men stems mainly from one or two traumatic incidents, it’s reinforced by the constant reminders that so many men are so willing to hurt women. Take that away, create a world where gendered violence is an aberration, and maybe I wouldn’t be so cautious of men as a whole. I wonder to what extent that’s true for other women.

But then what do you do for people who were victimized by people of the same gender?

I wouldn’t feel comfortable addressing this without hearing more from survivors of that kind of violence and what their needs are.

@Argenti

Also, for all support groups, shouldn’t “if you feel comfortable here and aren’t disruptive” be the bar for entry? Maybe more things depending (eg, expecting a baby is a perfectly reasonable requirement for a Lamaze class…must be a woman not so much, sure, the vast majority will be, but not required)

Ideally, yes, and I can’t wait until we get there as a society. In the world we currently live in, where privilege causes people to be disruptive without even realizing it (see: men talking over women)? It’s always worth trying, but without some system in place to remove the disruptive people, it may not pan out.

The #Occupy movement is a great example: despite their profession of liberal, egalitarian ideals, many Occupy groups still ended up alienating women, trans* folks, and others by unintentionally privileging certain voices over others, and refusing to exclude truly dangerous people. Occupy Boston, in particular, got some notoriety when a female went public about the group’s refusal to exclude her rapist. But I’m sure the men who made that decision truly believed they being inclusive.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
11 years ago

emilygoddess — fair enough, I was just thinking that if teachers can keep small children in line, surely a moderator can keep the members of a support group in line. But yeah “after the revolution” bullshit probably.

In lighter things, I very nearly referred to myself as ze instead of parentally approved pronoun in front of my mother. Was one of those weird self comfirmation moments. And it probably makes no sense outside of my head.

I’m left worrying about where non-binaries go. Like, my psych offered a trauma group and it sounded Very Gendered so I declined as any such having to reaffirm the strengths of my gender nonsense was Not Going To Help.

Maybe the solution, for those to whom it is available, is the internet. Where there really are enough people with any issue // hobby // life event // etc to create a group for it.

M Dubz
M Dubz
11 years ago

Hey all. Sorry I haven’t been around, I needed to sleep and then pray, but I wanted to dive back into the conversation. When I was talking about groups, I was going on the conversations I’ve had with certain men that they feel more comfortable expressing certain sorts of vulnerabilities around other men rather than in mixed gender groups, and my own similar feelings. The spaces I was talking about were probably more like support groups, like giving men the opportunity to support each other around being nurturing parents, staying home with kids, cultivating a more femme gender performance, etc. I think that there’s a real power in people subverting the same gender dynamic together. Naturally, this doesn’t work for everyone, but I think with the proper leadership these groups can advocate for societal changes (see: this is what I wish the men’s rights movement was ACTUALLY up to)

@Argenti- The point about non-binary people is a really important one. I feel like it matches with my point, in that there are ways of being in the world that are really heavily socialized into a person, and if a person is actively trying to fight against that it helps to have the support of other people trying to fight in that way. I feel you about numbers though :/

Fade
11 years ago

But a parenting group that excludes women?

I agree, especially b/c of how moms and dads are already encouraged to act differently. I feel like it could work to help people get out of their gender-attitude box, but it also could reinforce a bunch of bad behavior

Jacob Ian Stalk
Jacob Ian Stalk
11 years ago

Thanks for tolerating my presence yesterday – I was very grateful for that. There seems to be life left in this thread with quite a few misunderstandings to clarify, so I’ll stick around for the next little while. Hopefully you’ll tolerate my presence again.

“But what if I have my best interests at heart and I am capable of leading myself.”

Moral autonomy is everyone’s goal, I suppose, although it’s probably not the safest journey to take alone. I suspect it’s for this reason we all submit to leadership to some degree on a daily basis, whether it be parents, teachers, employers, government…or blog communities.

Fade
11 years ago

Dude, women have already heard that we should rely on men for safety. We just reject it.

Also, government does not equal husband. The idea that a woman should follow her husband puts him in authority of her, and that is unnacceptable.

It does not grant her safety.

Jacob Ian Stalk
Jacob Ian Stalk
11 years ago

“How are we supposed to react? Being polite now doesn’t change everything he has already written.”

I wouldn’t expect it to but it makes sense to be polite surely?

The helpful criticisms some people are providing in this thread would probably not be so helpful if I were not being polite. I bear no ill will towards anyone here and want to understand some new perspectives so there isn’t any other way I’d want to be.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Leadership? I’m good at that. As the leader that I am I would like to gently, and for his own good, lead Jacob away from discussing feminism and towards discussing something that he has the intellectual ability and empathy to be capable of understanding.

…So that pretty much leaves us with “Jacob” as a topic. Anyone else here want to hear more about Jacob? Can’t say I do.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
11 years ago

This is important. A website that changes your font to cat font!
http://nekofont.upat.jp/index2.cgi

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
11 years ago

I think Jacob is a chatbot. He certainly talks like one.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

The helpful criticisms some people are providing in this thread would probably not be so helpful if I were not being polite. I bear no ill will towards anyone here and want to understand some new perspectives so there isn’t any other way I’d want to be.

Uh-huh. Sure.

Go away, Jacob. I have zero desire to help you find your way to new perspectives.

Jacob Ian Stalk
Jacob Ian Stalk
11 years ago

@ MarciLannister | May 11, 2013 at 6:06 am

1. Don’t be narcissistic.

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Anyone with the will to live, self-preservation, must acknowledge that, to themselves, they are more important than anyone else. For example, you cannot be a very effective parent if you don’t take care of yourself first. Secondly, I have no problems with there being spaces set aside for each gender (as long as people who don’t fit neatly into one of the two standard-issue can still enter the one they prefer). In number 9 you harp on women trying to bother men in their sanctuaries but this contradicts what you are saying here. So it is ok for men to have “men only”, but it is narcissism for women to have “women only?”

I use this word to mean in the manner of Narcissus falling in love with his reflection. In Number 9, I hope I didn’t imply that women ought not feel welcome in male sanctuaries, as my intention was to encourage respect if and when they venture there. Politeness, tolerance and a willingness to understand perspectives other than their own would be a good way to participate in any discussions going on there. Same as here, I suppose.

“2. Get rid of the self-induced schizophrenia.

You seem to think being in a certain state of mind, i.e. confident vs. frightened, cannot change from one minute to the next. Or are you saying that only women suffer from this? People react and bring out different aspects of their personality according to each situation they happen to be in. Both men and women are capable (and do) “fake” some sort of weakness to get themselves out of trouble. But people in general also find aspects of themselves come out in certain circumstances that they would not ordinarily know was even a part of their personality. For example, I am a very calm and cheerful person almost all of the time. If however, someone messes with my kid, my rage and ability for destruction knows no bounds.”

This is helpful – thanks. This point wasn’t intended to be so broad as it might seem. It was describing only those who deliberately and knowingly manipulate others in this way. I’ll try to be clearer in the next version of the list.

“6. Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public.

So, bi-sexual and lesbian women don’t exist? I have literally never despised anyone in my real life, and only a few women from afar (Shirley Phelps Roper, Michelle Bachman, and Ann Coulter). Further, nobody should be liars, why is this advice supposed to be for women only? Who wants to be around someone who lies? Also I have news for you, I can see through deception too, in both men and women (it’s part of law enforcement training).”

It wasn’t my intention to draw attention to any particular group of women. I agree the point could apply to men also – it’d worth including in a similar list for them.

“7. Don’t seek equality with men.

Everyone should be seeking equality with each other, there should not be a hierarchy of human beings who are on top and the rest crushed under foot. Yes males and females are different, duh, but just because we have differences do not mean that we cannot be equals. You don’t have to be perfectly identical to another person to be their equal. The fact is that no person is wholly capable of doing all of the exact same things as the next person…so fucking what? My friend can make really awesome sketches of just about anything she looks at and I can’t. We are unequal in the very narrow definition of the “art world; sketching” but as human beings we are still equal…get it?”

I guess it comes down to a clear definition of “equal”. If we define it as ‘equal rights under the law’ or ‘equal dignity under God’ or ‘equal opportunity’ or other such definition, then I don’t think many people in the Manosphere would object to the term. The word “equality” probably ought not be used as a catch-cry for the elimination of any and all human diversity, which seems to be the default option.

“9. Respect the sanctuaries of men.

Again, non-issue if you also agree that men should respect the sanctuaries for women. Also if these are men-only places then why do you need to instruct us all on how to behave within them? It seems like you want women to behave themselves if they enter a public place that has mostly men and treat it like it is “men-only” which it wouldn’t be by definition if she is able to enter in the first place. You can’t have it both ways.”

Sorry if “sanctuaries for men” implied they ought to be men-only”, as this wasn’t my intention. I hope men and women would feel welcome in sanctuaries for the opposite sex and appreciate the need to respect the local culture. We’re not perfect and these spaces can be very reactive, so it seemed wise to point out the stumbling blocks.

“11. Be honest about sexual harassment.

Here’s a thought: It is possible that women don’t always dress themselves with the intent to please random men. Also, I say, stare all you want…but nothing a woman is wearing gives you a right to put your hands on her or verbally harass her. Here’s the thing, unless you already have some sort of relationship with a woman, it’s a good idea to never approach her in any sexual way. You seem to just want to give yourself permission to grope and harass strangers, when in reality I give men more credit than that. I am bi-sexual, I love looking at beautiful women (who come in every shape, size and color) and even in public I notice and appreciate them every day. But I would never, ever harass or grope, nor do I feel any ill will toward a woman for dressing just the way she pleases or think that she is doing it to control me or my sexuality.”

These seem like sensible words. Number 11 was a comment on the risks associated with inconsistent sexual intentions and responses. It was also a comment on the need to be aware of the risks of misreading signals and misunderstanding intent when it isn’t clear. It was also a warning to the unwary that when sex is used to manipulate others the results can backfire, sometimes in the worst possible way.

Thanks for these comments. I hope my responses help a little.

Fade
11 years ago

It was also a warning to the unwary that when sex is used to manipulate others the results can backfire, sometimes in the worst possible way.

This sounds like victim blaming. Even if someone is saying “i’m gonna sleep with you if you do x” and then another person does x and person one’s like “haha, no!” they still don’t deserve to be raped.

It’s still not their fault.

If a man reads a woman as trying to use sex to manipulate him (she doesn’t say anything in specific like example a), and then he thinks he deserves sex at the end, he’s still a rapist. It doesn’t matter the alleged inconsistencies of sexual response in his mind.

Jacob, I got no clue why you’re here, but it seems like you’re using a lot of words to say not much at all.

You admit most of the situations could be applied to both genders, yet you still posted it under one? You said “self induced schizophrenia (nice ableism, btw)” you meant to mean “in an attempt to manipulate people” but there was no indication of that in the original post.

If you want to do a bunch of misogynistic stereotypes and then act surprised when people call you on it, it’s not enough to backtrack and obfuscate. You have to actually apologize if you’re honest, or just drop it if you’re not.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

The next version of the list? Jacob, there shouldn’t be ANY version of the list.

Exactly who the fuck do you think you are to tell women what to do?

Jacob Ian Stalk
Jacob Ian Stalk
11 years ago

@ pecunium | May 11, 2013 at 10:05 am

“Really? Sharia is your big fear? Looking at the US (It being 1: Where I live, and 2: possessed of the largest military in the world), I’m not worried about “the caliphate” so much as I am about Christian Dominionism

It’s not a fear, just a concern. Christian Dominionism, if it uses the same methods of ‘encouragement’ as Sharia, would also be a concern.

“I would say you didn’t “read and reflect” at redstockings either, what with your allegation that Equality is equality. Feminism is about the unbridled pursuit of power for women.”

I read and reflected on it deeply. I just don’t agree with it.

“By their [the MRM’s] fruits shall ye know them.

Indeed. There’s rotten fruit and infertile ground both here and there. It’s probably time to start ploughing some new fields and planting some new seeds.

hellkell
hellkell
11 years ago

Yeah, you should go fertilize other sites with your bullshit. Like your own blog.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
11 years ago

Perhaps simplifying the message will help.

Jacob, feminists are not interested in your advice as to how they should conduct themselves. If they do want your advice, they will ask. Notice how they’re not doing that?

Go plant your seeds in a field that wants you there. This is not that field, nor is any other feminist space.

Jacob Ian Stalk
Jacob Ian Stalk
11 years ago

“You admit most of the situations could be applied to both genders, yet you still posted it under one? You said “self induced schizophrenia (nice ableism, btw)” you meant to mean “in an attempt to manipulate people” but there was no indication of that in the original post.”

This is helpful, although context and published location is also a factor. I’ll certainly take more care with the update.

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