Cloudiah found this amazingly awful rant — from a prolific manosphere commenter and Spearhead supporter by the name of Jacob Ian Stalk — in the comments section to a piece on feminism in The Tab Oxford, a student paper. She posted it in the comments here on Man Boobz, where it’s already generated a good deal of discussion (see comments here, here, here, and here for starters). But I thought it deserved a post of its own.
So without further ado, I present Jacob Ian Stalk’s “12-Step Program for Recovering Feminists.”
Equality is equality. Feminism is about the unbridled pursuit of power for women. Got that?
Uh, no, actually, because it’s not true, but please continue.
The age of feminism is over, thankfully. The comments here that support feminism are from the rats that refuse to leave the sinking ship, thinking there’s sustenance still to be found there somewhere. Sorry to disappoint, but there is nothing nutritious left.
So the ship is sinking at the very moment it’s run out of food that rats can eat. That’s quite a coincidence! Or is it sinking because it ran out of food? Were the dudes on the ship using rat food to plug holes in the hull?
Men the world over are waking up to the damage wrought by rampant feminism and they’re shocked to realise it all happened while they were asleep. Well, they’re asleep no more. Bleat all you like about feminism being about this or that, but the truth of it’s evil is written all over the once noble institutions of the world and the wishful bleatings of solipsistic girl-children can’t erase it. It is done. The cailphate is establishing its power base once more and Sharia law is spreading.
Huh? Because of feminism? Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Feminists have destroyed the family and have eschewed child-bearing in favour of credentialism and the illusion of success, killing their unborn children and robbing men of their will to be fathers and husbands. The laugh is on you, Western feminists, as Western birth rates have at last fallen below their replenishment rate and the Muslims are laughing all the way to the maternity wards.
Oh, dear, you got some racism in your misogyny. Two terrible tastes that taste worse together!
The best you can hope for, Western women, is to abandon feminism entirely. Abandon that idiotic notion of ‘equality’, as it will never happen. All it has earned you is the disrespect of men and an increasing number of women the world over. Feminism doesn’t make you strong. It doesn’t make you powerful. It doesn’t make you free. And it sure as hell doesn’t make you equal. It just makes you despicable.
Wait, weren’t you just complaining that feminism is about female supremacy? Now you’re admitting that it’s actually about equality – and you’re preaching male supremacy in its place?
Abandon feminism. Here’s a 12-step program for recovering feminists. There are others.
Ok, here we go.
1. Don’t be narcissistic. Never think you’re more important than men or children. Marketing departments delight in exploiting the feminist fallacy that you are. They promote ‘women’s only’ this and that, and women have bought into it. This appears sexist but it is really a marketing ploy that works because most women are narcissistic. Companies know they can charge more for goods and services by using the words ‘women only’. Narcissistic women are easily exploitable women. Be neither.
Huh. Isn’t the Men’s Rights Movement all about exploiting the narcissism of men who think they’re more important than women? (And children – at least in the case of the MRAs who whine endlessly about how unfair it is they can’t financially abandon their kids.)
2. Don’t let others make choices for you. This should be self-evident but for most of your life you’ve allowed yourself to be told what to wear, what to buy, what to eat, how to dress, where to go, how to think – in clubs, gyms, magazines, websites, books, stores and by TV talk show hosts. You’ve ‘needed’ a step-by-step guide through life, which you’ve followed with your sisters like sheep. Companies have exploited this need. Behave like a sheep if you must but obey the sheepdog, not the wolf. Better yet, be a woman who can think for herself.
… so long as “thinking for yourself” means “thinking you’re inferior to men and generally thinking the way men who hate women want you to.”
3. Get rid of the self-induced schizophrenia. Don’t insist you’re strong, confident, capable and independent one minute, then weak, frightened and vulnerable the next, especially when you’ve been caught doing something wrong. Don’t chop and change whenever it suits you – learn about who you are and be true. Admit when you’ve done something wrong. Don’t suddenly remember that you suffered abuse in the past or have some kind of mental illness or other instability, then use it to get yourself off. If you never sought help for these problems before you were caught, don’t use them as an excuse afterwards. Accept responsibility for yourself.
And for everything bad that men do as well, as manospherians repeatedly insist. If men are violent, it’s because women (allegedly) like dating violent men. If men brutalize the women in their life, it’s because the women provoke them. If a man arms himself with high-powered weapons and massacres children, his mom is to the real villain. For manospherians and MRAs generally, “responsiblity” means “a woman is always to blame.”
4. Don’t let the law take responsibility for crimes women commit. Speak out against women routinely receiving shorter sentences than men for the same crimes. If the law punishes women as it does children, treat them like children and encourage others to do so too. Don’t call these women ‘victims’ and say “they’ve suffered enough” because they’re women. Believe in, and stand up for, equal justice on the basis of gender.
Women do tend to receive shorter sentences than men for the same crimes. But this isn’t the fault of feminism. Indeed, female judges are slightly more likely to give women harsher sentence than male judges, possibly reflecting paternalistic attitudes on the part of male judges.
5. Don’t believe everything women and feminised men in the media tell you. Many serve up slop by the bucket – celebrity gossip, slimming tips, sex tips, man-shaming tips, rape and abuse lies, etc. TV shows like Oprah and Dr Phil are filled with advice on how women can transform themselves into victims and blame everything on men, while constantly ridiculing them. Partake of more nutritious fare than this. Get your infotainment from equitable programs. Be aware of the cultural status quo from both perspectives.
I have no idea what Jacob here would consider an “equitable” program, but, really, no one of any gender should be getting life advice from Dr. Phil.
6. Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public. Don’t pretend that all women are your best friends when everyone knows nothing could be further from the truth. Openly acknowledge the reality that women despise each other unless there’s personal advantage in not doing so. Most good men can see through these attempts at deception, so lies won’t travel far. Don’t be a liar, especially not an obvious one.
I have no idea what the fuck he’s going on about here. “Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public??” Do women who hate each other march around Jacob’s neighborhood arm-in-arm, pretending to be BFFs and singing the Lady Internationale? (“Arise, you prisoners of menstruation … .“)
7. Don’t seek equality with men. Masculinity and femininity are inherently different. They are neither equals nor opposites, but different parts of the sexual continuum that can’t be defined from each other. Actively separate masculinity from femininity, and separate both from the sexual politics that keep them in healthy tension. Don’t claim women can do anything men can do until you start producing your own sperm.
Um, what? Is Kate Bush not a brilliant musician because she doesn’t have balls? Is Joan Didion not a brilliant writer because she can’t jizz into a sock?
Not every sperm producer is sacred.
8. Don’t demonize male sexuality or the male sex. Both sexes can be evil, both can be virtuous. Empathy, wisdom, grace, mercy, compassion and love are all as masculine as they are feminine. Don’t invaginate our boys by shaming or medicating the masculinity out of them before it matures and don’t impregnate them with the corrosive lie that being a woman is like being a man only better. Male sexuality is a pearl to be cultured. Suffuse your sons egos with promise if you want your daughters to have good men to love.
Uh, “invaginate?” Invaginate means to “be turned inside out or folded back on itself to form a cavity or pouch.” I’m pretty sure that teaching boys not to rape their dates does not in any way, literally or figuratively, turn them into a pouch.
9. Respect the sanctuaries of men. Men are judged much more harshly than women so they need their safe retreat. They don’t have the same opportunities for emotional support as women so they need a place where they can express themselves free of judgment and ridicule. This place must be respected. Take care if you venture there as your feminine narcissism is the enemy. Don’t draw attention to yourself and don’t expect protection if you do. If you must speak don’t attempt to control the dialogue or steer it towards you. Don’t censor language to suit your sensitivities. Male sanctuary is sacred – treat it as you would a cathedral.
Dudes, if you want to start your own little clubhouses where you can call women “cunts” in peace and quiet, go ahead and do it. Just don’t pretend they’re about anything more than misogyny. And if you put these allegedly sacred sanctuaries on the internet, don’t be surprised if some people take offence. Oh, and don’t claim that, say, video games, or STEM fields, or atheism, or whatever male-heavy thing you’re into, is a “male sanctuary” that need to be protected from evil girl germs.
Some male spaces can be totally awesome:
Others, not so awesome.
10. Don’t use shaming tactics. Don’t accuse men of having anger management issues when they’re angry at injustice. Don’t accuse them of being a threat when they call you out for being a bigot or a tyrant. Don’t accuse them of having a fear of commitment when they’re merely making a choice between bravery and stupidity. Don’t assess the merit of their arguments on the basis of their attractiveness to you. Don’t attribute their views about women to past disappointments when it is merely an objective assessment of your sex. Shaming tactics are remnants of childhood so leave them in the nursery if you want to be taken seriously.
I think this one just broke the irony meter. It’s not like manosphere dudes ever use shaming language aimed at anyone.
A word of warning here. The next paragraph is the worst one in the whole manifesto, and, honestly, one of the worst things I’ve run across in my more than two years of doing this blog. TRIGGER WARNING for rape apologia.
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11. Be honest about sexual harassment. If you assert that you have the right to dress as you please and that men should be able to control their sexuality, honour their right to be shielded from yours. If you don’t want men to control themselves but instead want to control their loss of control for your own enjoyment, be prepared for the consequences when things go awry. If ‘harassment’ – the stares, sexual innuendos, sly touches, and even rape – magically cease to be harassment and become the foundations of a passionate new romance occasionally, admit that you don’t really want men to control themselves. Don’t expect men to know when it’s right to ‘harass’ you and when it’s not. Don’t treat Man one minute as an exciting and courageous hero and the next a monster intent on tyranny and abuse if you’re inconsistent in your sexual intentions and desires.
Woah. Let’s take another look at that especially terrible comment in the middle of that mess:
If ‘harassment’ – the stares, sexual innuendos, sly touches, and even rape – magically cease to be harassment and become the foundations of a passionate new romance occasionally, admit that you don’t really want men to control themselves.
I’ve got no jokes for this one. You honestly think that RAPE can be “the foundation of a passionate new romance?” What the fuck is wrong with you?
12. Speak out against misandry. The main reason for its proliferation is that women have remained silent. Silence in the face of injustice is cowardly. It has allowed loud, obnoxious women to preach hatred with impunity, which has reflected badly on all women. When you speak out against misandry you do all women a favour. Don’t be a misandrist, don’t be a coward and don’t be silent.
At this point, I really don’t think I need to bother to point out the hypocrisy here.
Yes it would actually Hypothetical Man I have actually dealt with in real life. It would hurt me if you got hurt. Besides, my health insurance is better.
@katz- it may just be different ways of doing things, but I find women only spaces really helpful in relationship building, in that there are real pressures that are gender specific. For example, as a woman, being able to talk about street harassment and have every person in the room just get it. And I have heard from lots of men whose opinions I deeply respect as feminists and allies that they are looking for such spaces, especially around issues of fatherhood. I don’t think that ONLY gendered spaces promote such sharing (I have lots of great male friends that I can be very vulnerable with) but I think that for some people it’s a really necessary and helpful thing, and I want to give people kudos for setting up spaces that work for them.
Also, please note that this is more along the lines of synagogue father son programming and less along the lines of male lawyers get together and complain about the stresses of being a lawyer. One gives men solidarity to subvert a gender stereotype (that men are not nurturers) and the other upholds one.
*shrug* Well, if it works for you, go for it, but female-only spaces (that is, spaces designed to be female only, rather than spaces that just happen to be female only) feel really awkward to me because I have nothing in common with everyone else except my uterus (not that all women have uteri) and, indeed, get a sense that everyone is supposed to be bonding over commonalities that I don’t share. Hell, I’ve actually never been street harassed! (I did once get a “woo hoo,” but that was because I was going through my hippie phase and driving around with a tie dyed shirt and a bandana.)
I’m all for misogynist men having their own spaces where nobody with girl cooties can go – as long as 1) they are not the focus of institutional or social power and 2) I get to nail the door shut when they’re all inside.
Can I just have a sheepdog instead of a sexist husband? If our friend here is any example, then the sheepdog will probably be smarter, and it will certainly be more pleasant company.
Border collies > sexist assholes.
Cuter, too.
What need have I for a human overlord to run my life? It’s already being run by two of the Furrinati.
I am, um, uncomfortable with [gender] only spaces. They kinda have a history of being trans* exclusive, and are de facto binary gendered (I mean, I guess you could have a genderqueer space too…but idk, I have fears of gatekeeping…)
Idk, I mean, I get the desire for things like “space for fathers // want to be fathers to talk about fatherhood” but would topic specific things be too…support group like? And more to the point, why not just use the standard support group format?
Idk, I’m having a case of “cotton ceiling! Womyn born womyn living as womyn! RUN AWAY!!!”
I guess I’m wondering why a man-only space would make it easier for men to express emotional vulnerability, given that most of the pressure for men not to be emotionally expressive comes from other men.
Perhaps they’ve convinced themselves that it’s unmanly to express emotion in front of women?
Though you’d think they’d be just as scared to express it in front of other men because of THE GAY.
1. Don’t be narcissistic.
This word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Anyone with the will to live, self-preservation, must acknowledge that, to themselves, they are more important than anyone else. For example, you cannot be a very effective parent if you don’t take care of yourself first. Secondly, I have no problems with there being spaces set aside for each gender (as long as people who don’t fit neatly into one of the two standard-issue can still enter the one they prefer). In number 9 you harp on women trying to bother men in their sanctuaries but this contradicts what you are saying here. So it is ok for men to have “men only”, but it is narcissism for women to have “women only?”
2. Get rid of the self-induced schizophrenia.
You seem to think being in a certain state of mind, i.e. confident vs. frightened, cannot change from one minute to the next. Or are you saying that only women suffer from this? People react and bring out different aspects of their personality according to each situation they happen to be in. Both men and women are capable (and do) “fake” some sort of weakness to get themselves out of trouble. But people in general also find aspects of themselves come out in certain circumstances that they would not ordinarily know was even a part of their personality. For example, I am a very calm and cheerful person almost all of the time. If however, someone messes with my kid, my rage and ability for destruction knows no bounds.
6. Don’t fake solidarity with other women, especially in public.
So, bi-sexual and lesbian women don’t exist? I have literally never despised anyone in my real life, and only a few women from afar (Shirley Phelps Roper, Michelle Bachman, and Ann Coulter). Further, nobody should be liars, why is this advice supposed to be for women only? Who wants to be around someone who lies? Also I have news for you, I can see through deception too, in both men and women (it’s part of law enforcement training).
7. Don’t seek equality with men.
Everyone should be seeking equality with each other, there should not be a hierarchy of human beings who are on top and the rest crushed under foot. Yes males and females are different, duh, but just because we have differences do not mean that we cannot be equals. You don’t have to be perfectly identical to another person to be their equal. The fact is that no person is wholly capable of doing all of the exact same things as the next person…so fucking what? My friend can make really awesome sketches of just about anything she looks at and I can’t. We are unequal in the very narrow definition of the “art world; sketching” but as human beings we are still equal…get it?
9. Respect the sanctuaries of men.
Again, non-issue if you also agree that men should respect the sanctuaries for women. Also if these are men-only places then why do you need to instruct us all on how to behave within them? It seems like you want women to behave themselves if they enter a public place that has mostly men and treat it like it is “men-only” which it wouldn’t be by definition if she is able to enter in the first place. You can’t have it both ways.
11. Be honest about sexual harassment.
Here’s a thought: It is possible that women don’t always dress themselves with the intent to please random men. Also, I say, stare all you want…but nothing a woman is wearing gives you a right to put your hands on her or verbally harass her. Here’s the thing, unless you already have some sort of relationship with a woman, it’s a good idea to never approach her in any sexual way. You seem to just want to give yourself permission to grope and harass strangers, when in reality I give men more credit than that. I am bi-sexual, I love looking at beautiful women (who come in every shape, size and color) and even in public I notice and appreciate them every day. But I would never, ever harass or grope, nor do I feel any ill will toward a woman for dressing just the way she pleases or think that she is doing it to control me or my sexuality.
Hopefully this will help you. Also I recommend you educate yourself about subjects such as sociology, feminism and history. There are these wonderful places called libraries where you can borrow books about everything there is to know, and for free.
@Katz
That list wasn’t for feminists. It was for his buddies to give him asspats.
@Hellkell
It’s amazing how many men care about women’s rights as long as the topic is “what’s your problem with Muslims?”
(OT: IT’S MONSOON SEASON!)
@Argenti and Fade, I totally read that bit about how women cannot oppress men as a rejection of “reverse sexism”/misandry. Although I have seen feminists who deny that any woman can oppress any man, I don’t think it’s what the quoted passage is saying. My 2 cents, anyway.
@Emilygoddess
Okay, that makes more sense. XD
JIN: Concerned for those who follow different religions and for the reduced freedoms that may result from increased Islamic influence, particularly for women.
Really? Sharia is your big fear? Looking at the US (It being 1: Where I live, and 2: possessed of the largest military in the world), I’m not worried about “the caliphate” so much as I am about Christian Dominionism
I don’t see any members of the the gov’t trying to establish Shari’a. I do see them imposing their (“christian”) religious beliefs on me (christian in scare quotes because it’s a huge tent, and their stripe is far from dispositive).
I generally prefer not to comment where this level of feminist thought is evident as it seems wiser to read and reflect.
Which is why you came to a dead thread to read and reflect: out loud.
I would say you didn’t “read and reflect” at redstockings either, what with your allegation that Equality is equality. Feminism is about the unbridled pursuit of power for women. Got that?
JIN: And we have a winner: Equality is equality. Feminism is about the unbridled pursuit of power for women. Got that?
Beams and motes son, beams and motes.
Of course, illegal behaviour is not encouraged. Example 11 on my list was not a commentary on rape (which our host may have overlooked in his critique), but on the inconsistency of sexual response. We’re not very good at read each others minds (the animosity between feminists and MRA’s is sufficient evidence of this),
My problem with the MRM isn’t that I can’t read their minds, but that I can their words.
By their fruits shall ye know them.
@Jacob
Hypergamy
Alpha/Beta males
Misandry
“crying rape”
I…do I even need to try? This pretty much mocks itself.
This isn’t a feminist 101 space, so people aren’t likely to interrupt their conversations to explain or defend concepts that you don’t understand. If you’re looking for a place to learn about feminist thought, this blog may not be what you’re looking for, unless you prefer the immersion method.
So you’re not denying that you’re a misogynist? Gosh, I can’t imagine why women aren’t interested in ~understanding your perspective~
Bonus points for using “you’re just afraid of my ideas” about an idea that is genuinely frightening.
Random thought – are we sure this person is who he says he is? Has David confirmed that? Because it could just as easily be someone thinking that it would be amusing to assume the guy’s name for trolling purposes.
(This is not a defense of either the original article or the comments here. It’s just that we may be dealing with two separate fractally wrong people rather than one.)
emilygoddess:
Yes, yes it is! I’m happy Jinkx won, but I really am surprised that Ru didn’t pick Alaska for the publicity value of her and Sharon’s relationship.
Also, at work yesterday I was training an intern on something, and started off with “Well, hello, hello, hello” without thinking about it when I got to her cube. At least I refrained from saying “And don’t fuck it up” at the end of the training.
Hm, I thought I had already responded to this one, but can’t find the post? Anyway, the funny thing is that if you refuse to read between the lines and ignore the fact that we know that MRA:s have a completely different standard set up for men than this one, then, um, yeah, I support most points here – SOMEHOW I’M STILL A FEMINIST????
1. I don’t think anyone should consider themselves to be more important than other people (that you must prioritize your own needs sometimes doesn’t imply that you think that you’re actually a more important person than other people). Plus I think marketing strategies that go “THIS PRODUCT IS FOR THIS GENDER” are stupid. Point one: Embraced.
2. Independent thinking: A good thing: Point two: Embraced.
3. I think feigning weakness and vulnerability to get out of trouble is dishonest and bad, although it may be comprehensible sometimes. Point three: Embraced.
4. There is evidence that men are treated more harshly than women for violent crimes because of various gender stereotypes affecting courts. Yeah, I agree that’s a bad thing. I think the fact that men can be victims of circumstance too, not just women, ought to be more stressed, but… Point four: Partly embraced.
5. No, we shouldn’t believe everything media tells us, therefore we shouldn’t believe everything women in media or “feminized” media tells us. Point five: Embraced.
6. Well, I can’t admit that all women despise each other since that’s not true, but I do agree that it’s often bad to pretend to feel solidarity with someone if that isn’t true, so, point six: Partly embraced.
7. Point seven I have to utterly reject since I think gender equality is a good thing.
8. Don’t demonize men or male sex – certainly not. Both genders can be good or bad; agree. Point eight: embraced.
9. Respect the sanctuaries of men. WTF is a male sanctuary?
10. Don’t use shaming tactics – sure thing. Point ten: Embraced.
11. Well, I’ve never wanted to control someone’s loss of control, and I’ve never thought harassment were okay if the perp were attractive, so point eleven; Embraced.
12. Speak out against misandry: Nevermind the word misandry or whether it’s legit or not; it totally happens that women, for instance, make really derogatory jokes about men. I recognize that this comes from a different place than men making misogynistic jokes, but I still think it’s wrong and speak up against it when it happens – so I guess that point twelve is also EMBRACED!
Now, HOW COME I’m STILL A FEMINIST? Shouldn’t I have travelled pretty far on the road towards “recovery” by embracing so many of these points already? (:-O
JIN: All blogs are as low-brow as the lowest common denominator.
Ah… so one bad apple spoils the barrel, but you can intereact with the bad apples in the Manosphere because… reasons.
You may indeed – thanks. However, as I mentioned before, I prefer not to critique genuine feminist thought. I find it more helpful to critique feminist thoughtlessness instead. There seems to be a lot of it around.
More of that Manly Intelligence. Rather than engage the intelligent/reasone arguments of my opponents I shall pretend they don’t exist, and rather pretend the most foolish of them are what it’s all about.
And, before you say, “that’s what you do here,” 1: we don’t make any bones about it, and you are hiding that it’s your modus operandi and 2: we have (regularly, even religiously) asked for the “non-extreme”, hell even the non-ridiculous MRA to be shown to us.
Because we actually do care about mens rights; but not when those “rights” are at the expense of other people (because the MRM is a bit racist too; see recent comments about “the caliphate” in this comment thread).
I see his disconnect: But it can also be reasoned that no two men are equal
He’s arguing that equality of ability being, inherently, impossible to attain (in every contest there will be some differnce in performace) then equality of opportunity must be circumscribed.
I think this is because someone who is “better” might not be seen to be, “better”.
And men are better because… reasons.
Oh, did he make an actual point somewhere in there? Sorry, couldn’t hear anything over the sound of him patting himself on the back.
Yeah, I don’t want it to seem like I’m picking on M Dubz here or anything, but I think enforcing the makeup of a group (especially around something as nebulous as gender) virtually always ends badly. Assumptions that everyone shares certain traits are almost inevitable, and you tend to get unfortunate side effects.
My hobbyhorse on this issue is actually not a gendered group but MENSA: If they had wanted to be a group of people who talked about intellectualish stuff, they could have, but no, they had to be a group where you have to pass an IQ test to enter, and so a large and loud part of their membership just wants to tell you that they have a high IQ.
Conversely, IME, self-selection works really well: The people who join a group tend to be the sort of people who are interested in that group. Take this site: There are almost no rules about who can comment, but we tend to have some traits mostly in common and to get along well.
Bottomline: I think men-only spaces, especially if that’s their only restriction, are more likely to reinforce social pressures. If you want a group for fathers, just make a group for fathers, and the participants will naturally mostly be fathers because it won’t be interesting to most other people. No formal restrictions needed.
I know that I’m late to this party, but this is such a such a sac de merde infantile. I worked for over a decade with a large, diverse group on engineers; maybe 80/20 male dominated. And it was awesome be cause we mainly treated each other like HUMAN BEINGS. Yes, there were a few entitled douchebags who though all women were required to get him coffee. We pointed to the coffee maker and ignored him. We had bad stereotypes the other way including a who liked to be helpless and have others do her work. She was fired fast, not because she was a woman, but because you get fired when you can’t get your shit done.
As for any dread femmine plots to subvert all young into our evil clutches, are maintactics were gender neutral math and science nights, take (all) your kids to work day, and a site wide Halloween fest. Dun dun dun.
Regardless of the gender of any of my coworkers, we were way to busy trying to subvert college hires to sign there future over to our corporate overloads. If I had to run a misandrist plot as well, I’d have to have been doing it in my sleep zombie-style.
IDK, I can see where gender-exclusive groups would be safer for some people. For example, I know some people who had to start a women-only group for rape survivors because the men in their mixed-gender group were either dominating the group or policing the women’s feelings (saying you’re afraid of men immediately after being raped by one is misandry). And in Alcoholics Anonymous, the women’s group was the only place we could even mention the inherent sexism in the literature and the way it alienated us without some man getting his boxers in a twist. I guess you could solve those problems with better moderators, but it was nice not to have to worry about it.
I don’t think MENSA is the right comparison. For me, women-only spaces are equivalent to queer or POC-only spaces. I hear what people are saying about those spaces tending to be trans-exclusive, and leaving nonbinary people out. You’re not wrong. But if the result of moving away from single-gender spaces is that women won’t have spaces where men can’t trample all over us, then I’m not really comfortable with that, either.