Over on PUA dirtbag Roosh V’s Return of Kings blog, a guest poster calling himself Emmanuel Goldstein (oh, how clever) offers a rather revealing take on the psychology of “players” and pickup artists like himself.
After justifiably mocking “nice guys” for assuming that “girls choose men like people buy houses” – that is, by carefully weighing pros and cons and looking for the best deal – he suggests that
[p]layers … are more like that sweet old lady with saggy arms wearing a hairnet at your local supermarket, handing out free, tasty samples.
Stay with him; it will all make sense, sort of, in a moment.
You’re not even looking at her, and she beckons you over to have a taste. Even though it’s junk food, you can’t resist. You avoid sweets, and here you are eating a tiny cinnabon. And really, she won’t mind if you take just the
tiptaste.Regardless, minutes later, you’re going home with a 96-pack of cinnabons – and you don’t even eat pastries! To be completely honest, the first time it happens, you’re a little jarred and confused about how the whole thing went down so fast. …
Now, imagine that that sweet old lady is actually a funny, strapping young man, and you buying those cinnabons is a woman agreeing to sex with him the night she met him. That confusion you felt after you bought a huge package of junk food? That’s how a girl might feel after her first one-night stand.
Yes, that’s right: Mr. Goldstein is comparing himself and his fellow “players” to supermarket pastry-pushers who cajole people into eating things they know they shouldn’t eat, and that they later regret eating.
And, oh yes, that are really bad for them:
If you remain unconvinced, just remember that our economy is in shambles because tens of millions of people bought homes they cannot afford, and that half of us are comically obese from eating too much junk food. That granny sample lady is looking pretty formidable right now.
Now, there are all sorts of things wrong with Mr. Goldstein’s analogy here. Sex isn’t pastry, for one thing, and for another, women (and everyone else) should be able to indulge in either of these pleasures without having assholes on the internet getting up in their business. (And, yes, PUAs, I’m saying that as a fat fatty.) I’m just trying to point out that by the terms of his own analogy, Mr. Goldstein is saying that sex with him is a shitty thing that’s bad for you.
This isn’t someone attacking PUAs for being miserable, self-centered sexual users who are only able to convince women to have sex with them through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
This is a PUA who ASPIRES to be such a miserable, self-centered sexual user he’s only able to convince women to have sex with him through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
In other words, PUAs are devoting their lives to making women feel bad about themselves. As a life goal, this seems a bit lacking.
You know what else is funny? The MRAs who had the idea of originally doing the hashtag are saying about how they “won” because apparently the feminists are butthurt.
About the “what does good looks have to do with good sex” thing: years ago I read this one PUA who said that if you manage to have sex with a woman before you’ve gotten her phone number, you shouldn’t bother to get her phone number, since you’ve already had sex with her. At first this baffled me, because if the goal is to have sex because sex is enjoyable, the woman who’s already had sex with you seems a much surer bet than a woman you’ve merely chatted with. But after puzzling it over for a bit it seemed to me that he was trying to rack up as many sexual partners as possible because having had a high number of sexual partners in your life is desirable in some way. But if you start out with a system like that, it’s not that big a step to decide that good looking sexual partners are worth more “points” than plain looking ones.
Of course, that’s not necessarily how the particular PUA that’s the topic of this post looks at things, but it’s something to consider.
If y’all hate PUAs, you might also enjoy browsing this weird little site as well. The guy is a bit repetitive and weird, and I think he didn’t speak English as a first language but at least the site is against PUA. I hope you like it:
seductionmyth.com
The original post does contain a lot of notions about good women and bad women – so maybe if good women are worth more points to sleep with, it’s because they’ve had less partners so less people have been there before you so their lower dickscore means you’re less gay?
Hurray We’ve dug so deep into this nugget of misandric misery we’ve uncovered latent, possible homophobia! T’is a pure motherlode of misanthropy for all!
I do like the neat orderly line between barsluts and authors, though. Because he’s a PUA (well, no, if we’re doing the jargon thing he’s an AFCwGD, that’d be an average frustrated chump with grand delusions) so its good for him to sleep with many people and bad for the people he sleeps with. I know we’ve been over that point a lot, but it just bears repeating:
if you’re a PUA and you think women get worse the more sex they have, you’re directly responsible, training for and attempting to make half the world a shittier place to be. I can’t understand why that doesn’t… even hit some sort of self-awareness nerve.
@khymchanur, and of course then it’s not about the actual sex or how many points you have – it’s about how many points you have relative to other people, so that in the stories you tell your bros you come out cooler. It’s like collecting PokeMon, but for dudebros!
[Which I do not intend as a slam against pokemon collecting, or dudebros, individually – heaven knows my roommate and I engage in furious battle often enough and even sometime grunt “Bro, that blastoise is badass”]
Whether SnowdropExplodes was describing almost committing rape and murder, or whether he was trotting out a horrible fantasy and pretending it was real, he sounds like a totally disgusting piece of work. The very best I could say if the whole story was made up is WTF posting something like that? And if it was real, then he needs to be on Reddit Island or some other place where he will never encounter women ever.
Isn’t it the case that the more difficult the challenge, the more points it’s worth? So, conventionally hot women are worth more points than conventionally plain women, because the former have more men to choose between, and can therefore be expected to be pickier, therefore more of a challenge, and therefore worth more points. There are more people who are willing to sleep with someone they already know and have some kind of relationship with than people who are willing to sleep with someone they’ve just met, therefore, more of a challenge to get someone you just met into bed, therefore it’s worth more points. Slutty women are more likely to engage in one-night-stands than non-slutty women, therefore non-slutty women are more of a challenge and worth more points. This might also explain the youth preference – older women who go out at bars and stuff are maybe more straight-forward, more prone to actively flirting, and therefore less of a challenge. Younger women may tend to be a bit more shy, therefore more of a challenge, and worth more points. Plus, everything else being equal a twenty-year-old is considered more conventionally attractive than a fourty-year-old, so that ties in with the attractiveness point I made above. A young, shy, non-slutty conventionally attractive woman you’ve just met would mean maximum difficulty level and therefore maximum amounts of points if you manage to sleep with her.
This is pretty much why I’m grateful I’m not conventionally attractive, because I fit the rest of the description, and the thought of having been subjected to any of that sort of attention makes me want to hurl. Any sexual attention, even the mildest meaningless attempts to flirt, from any man other than Mr K, makes my skin crawl; but the sort of stuff these creatures go in for … I haven’t the words for how disgusting that would be.
I would not be surprised at all if they literally kept score. Though they’d never be able to believe each other’s scores.
Zomg! That snowdrop really really REALLY needs to stop and think about who he is and what he wants, rather than trying to find excuses and defenses.
Also, love how he’s not a feminist but rather some strange word for ally.
From what I just read, if he still thinks that way he’s a danger to women even now. And that doesn’t bother him one bit.
Does it really need to be pointed out that many people, even men, suffer from drepression and do not think about being a rapist? Do not assemble the tools to carry it through? We don’t excuse partner abuse because depression, though the depression might be treated anyways.
Yuck ew ew. May every woman who so much as shares a three hundred yard proximity with him get the urge to run for her life.
Cloudiah: I read the whole thing. I think the “lesbian officers” is a reference to specific people. He has large swathes of that manifesto which praise LBGT people, and equality.
He’s a very confused dude, who expects the LAPD, or some other agency, to kill him.
Truthy: We didn’t miss the point. We disagree with it. Sex isn’s a purchase. There is no need to be cautious about choosing it, per se.
To make an analogy, it’s like buying fish. If you are a little careful you will get sick. So you get fresh fish, and you use condoms/get tests.
Are there markets from which one does’t want to buy? Yes. And there are people not worth the time spent having sex with them.
Of the two, poor sex is better than bad fish. PUAs are more like bad shellfish; a toxic mess best avoided.
You (and the rest of your ilk) think women being free people is bad. You think, “ a patriarchal social order made the restraint of female sexuality its highest priority.
Is a good thing. So does Emmanuel. Both of you are shitbirds and assholes. All “The Game” in the world can’t cover that stink.
the greatest manipulators get rewarded with the best sex (read: with the most attractive women).
Whut? How is looks related to sexual skill, talent, enthusiasm?
Oh, that’s right; it’s not. You aren’t looking for good sex, just bragging rights. Go for it. No one is stopping you from emulating Roosh and Roissy, brag about the hot chicks you’ve been tricked into fucking with you with all you like. I’m sure people will believe you.
Or maybe not. Most people don’t go around bragging about whom they’ve had sex with. It’s gauche. It’s sort of pathetic; in a revealing one’s inner insecurities. If one uses names, it’s tacky. People who do that get a reputation, which cuts down on the new sexytimes.
Snow update — we apparently got the worst of it, my brother just came back inside swearing about how absurd my father is for shoveling, because it’s still blowing everywhere. I did that swearing already and got out of it. We never lost power though, so w00t for that.
As for the thread… did I mention Pecunium and I were playing with #HugoFuckingSchwyzer (or rather, creating it) — have fun with it guys!
And now I’ve been requested to shovel out the kitchen, because someone dragged in all the snow!
@Argenti
Yay for safe fishies! We didn’t lose power and we enjoyed our hot chocolate (with milk because canned whipped cream is never something that lasts long enough in our house for us to have it in hand when we need it. *remembers eating the last of our last can directly from said can*)
>>>he has to know that PUAs are out triple dipping
Hand to Fleshlight to vacuum cleaner doesn’t count as triple dipping.
@BlackBloc
Maybe he meant triple-dripping?
Some Gal — w00t for you to losing power either! And this is why we buy multiple cans of whipped cream (I totally eat it straight too 🙂 )
>>>>The notion of women as merchandise and their bodies as commodity goes back much farther than capitalist economics.
There is a distinction between merchandise/commodity and property. Commodification is a step beyond because it implies interchangeability. The idea of commodification comes from mass production, when it became possible to consider one produced good as fully equivalent to another instance of the same produced good. If I buy an LG 48” TV of a given model number, it is the same as any other LG 48” of the same given model number. Just like a PUA assumes a vagina is a vagina is a vagina. When goods were produced by their consumers or artisanally, the relationship of people to goods was different, and while it is true that women might have been considered property (extensions of their owners, i.e. men), the idea that any woman is equivalent to another is a lot more tied into capitalist modes of thoughts.
Straight whipping cream equals YUM!
I prefer making it rather than out of the can, but that’s just me. (Canned stuff has a weird aftertaste)
@pillow in hell
I normally make whipped cream fresh if I’m using it for something. If I just want a taste of whipped cream, I use a can because it is more convenient.
(I also tend to use cans if I’m on my own for a couple of days. I’m disabled enough that, without the boyfriend or another helpful person around, I won’t necessarily have the energy/lack of pain to waste on making whipped cream.)
Basically, weird aftertaste is better than no whipped cream at all. 🙂
So my sister (New Haven) got almost a yard of snow and they’ve been shoveling all morning. You other East Coasters okay?
cloudiah — no sign of Pecunium or LBT yet, but I’m fine! (And in New Haven county and yep, it’s a yard, 34″ here >.< )
@Argenti That’s exactly what my sister measured. They finished shoveling the front walk and sidewalk and are recharging with eggs and cocoa before digging out the cars and backyard.
I see you didn’t lose power, so yay!
@BlackBloc Good point on the difference between conceptions of women as property under different economic systems.
@pecunium Yeah I didn’t read the whole thing. Low tolerance for “manifestoes.”
@cloudiah
Safe here, too! I also didn’t read the whole thing for the same reason you didn’t. I get enough disjointed, mediocre, out-of-left field “intellectual” writing here, and for me it isn’t much fun to mock a killer’s manifesto.
We’re safe as well! Completely covered in snow everywhere, but no power outage, no issues. Hell, the amount of snow probably means my attic crawl space is better insulated, so warmer.
After lunch, plan to help roomie shovel out. (Being from the South, shoveling remains an interesting novelty, so Sneak thinks it’d be an awesome way of exercising.)
And yeah, snowdropexplodes is just… something else. My first exposure was at some womanist site, where the commentariat EXPLODED when SE posted and someone recognized him. It got weirder and became an argument on whether expecting the blog owner to keep out SE was racist, but I was already gone.
And CassandraSays, I too have a HUGE hate-on for the folks who use BDSM as an excuse. Just… people like that are why I do not go to kink spaces. At all.
Yeesh, when I was really depressed, the worst I did was feel miserable and sleep a lot! I must be doing it wrong.
w00t glad you’re alright too Some Gal and LBT! Sneak’s right, shoveling is hard work (that I managed to get out of thankfully)
And apparently I’m also doing depression wrong, oh well, sleepy is better than homical.