Over on PUA dirtbag Roosh V’s Return of Kings blog, a guest poster calling himself Emmanuel Goldstein (oh, how clever) offers a rather revealing take on the psychology of “players” and pickup artists like himself.
After justifiably mocking “nice guys” for assuming that “girls choose men like people buy houses” – that is, by carefully weighing pros and cons and looking for the best deal – he suggests that
[p]layers … are more like that sweet old lady with saggy arms wearing a hairnet at your local supermarket, handing out free, tasty samples.
Stay with him; it will all make sense, sort of, in a moment.
You’re not even looking at her, and she beckons you over to have a taste. Even though it’s junk food, you can’t resist. You avoid sweets, and here you are eating a tiny cinnabon. And really, she won’t mind if you take just the
tiptaste.Regardless, minutes later, you’re going home with a 96-pack of cinnabons – and you don’t even eat pastries! To be completely honest, the first time it happens, you’re a little jarred and confused about how the whole thing went down so fast. …
Now, imagine that that sweet old lady is actually a funny, strapping young man, and you buying those cinnabons is a woman agreeing to sex with him the night she met him. That confusion you felt after you bought a huge package of junk food? That’s how a girl might feel after her first one-night stand.
Yes, that’s right: Mr. Goldstein is comparing himself and his fellow “players” to supermarket pastry-pushers who cajole people into eating things they know they shouldn’t eat, and that they later regret eating.
And, oh yes, that are really bad for them:
If you remain unconvinced, just remember that our economy is in shambles because tens of millions of people bought homes they cannot afford, and that half of us are comically obese from eating too much junk food. That granny sample lady is looking pretty formidable right now.
Now, there are all sorts of things wrong with Mr. Goldstein’s analogy here. Sex isn’t pastry, for one thing, and for another, women (and everyone else) should be able to indulge in either of these pleasures without having assholes on the internet getting up in their business. (And, yes, PUAs, I’m saying that as a fat fatty.) I’m just trying to point out that by the terms of his own analogy, Mr. Goldstein is saying that sex with him is a shitty thing that’s bad for you.
This isn’t someone attacking PUAs for being miserable, self-centered sexual users who are only able to convince women to have sex with them through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
This is a PUA who ASPIRES to be such a miserable, self-centered sexual user he’s only able to convince women to have sex with him through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
In other words, PUAs are devoting their lives to making women feel bad about themselves. As a life goal, this seems a bit lacking.
Cassandra, thebewilderness – gotcha, sorry, I was reading the “not a feminist in the world” bit way too literally. Yeah, someone noted in US feminism and a writer there doesn’t have a whole lot of excuses for not knowing about the charming Schwyzer’s history (gag).
I’ve never even heard of SnowdropExplodes.
@ pillow in hell
He posted it on his public sex blog! You can Google his name and it will come up. I was no longer engaging with his group by the time that happened, found out about it later, but he was always a creeper. Every time he would say anything about sex I would get that thousand roaches crawling all over you feeling.
I was just looking at that roach shot from Creepshow yesterday, too …
@Zanana
Until I read her defense of Hugo, I’d barely read any of Clarisse’s stuff because she just always seemed a little young in the naive, idealistic, bit immature, etc. sense (even though we are pretty close in age). After the defense of Hugo, though, I realized that she is either so blinded by naivete that she accepts and endorses immorality or she is just immoral. To me, it doesn’t really matter which it is because the result is the same. YMMV, of course, but I can totally see how you got the impression of her that you did.
Yes, I did know about SnowdropExplodes. He was quite shocked when he was ejected from a feminist forum as a result of his confession. Thought it was unfair.
Also, he’s another one who was allowed to guest post on Feministe. They really need a better vetting process.
Well, guys like Hugo and snowdrop give credence to the more hardline stance of not having men position themselves as the voice of feminism/ the need to look very closely at men who start becoming prominent.
Which is a shame, because there are a lot of good men out there working towards feminist goals, and many of them have some very interesting insights.
Though those great insights will never include the idea that men should be allowed to jizz in your face (even if its not your thing) to help them “get over” the idea that sperm is unclean.
Bleh.
On the sperm = unclean thing…not everyone has religion-induced sexual guilt issues, Hugo.
To help who get over the idea?
Funny how he didn’t include that men should perform oral on, or hell, even jusy have lots of sex with menstruating women to help them get over menses = unclean (a far bigger problem belief).
I’m a hardliner in this respect. Men can be allies all they want, but the ones who want the job of Boss Feminist are in it for the wrong reasons.
I’ve met a few guys who don’t like their iwn ejaculate. I have to wonder if this phenomenon contributes to the “having a penis inside makes women dirty sluts” thing. Far too often men have issues with the penis count and somewhere in there you wonder if men think their own bodies are dirty.
Hellkell, I feel the same way.
What really dropped my jaw though was how shocked Hugo was when a large portion of feminists rejected him.
Srsly, who the fuck thinks people are goin to react well to being told that you raped and then attempted to muder someone?
This “sperm is unclean” notion is a bit … ô_ô
Okay, voice of unfamiliarity here, but all the “why won’t she swallow my wonderful semen” doesn’t sound like fellers thinking it’s dirty. The wanting to ejaculate on a woman’s face gives me the initial gut reaction of the man wanting to dominate/humiliate her, though the humiliation part could tie in to him having the “semen is dirty” attitude. But it reads far more to me like it’s about hostility. Apologies if it’s a kink anyone here likes and has nothing to do with that, but a man trying to say women should allow this sets my alarm bells going. Doesn’t help that it’s Scuzzbucket Schwyzer saying it, either.
There’s also the little issue that semen in the eyes HURTS from all I’ve read. Does this not occur to them as a reason not to do it?
Seconding Some Gal about the menses = unclean being far more of an issue.
@pillow in hell
I’ve wondered about that, too. At the same time, though, the way they think penises can stretch out a vagina makes me wonder if they don’t feel a bit too good about themselves.
Thirded.
That stretchy vagina thing always has me half shaking my head over their ignorance/stupidity/hostility and half laughing at the idea. I just wish the elastic in my waistbands was as good as the elastic in my bits! 😛
My feeling about the facial thing is that, like anal, it’s something that a lot of men want mostly because they think women hate it and don’t want it. It’s a power play, basically. There are some men who genuinely like those things for reasons unrelated to wanting to dominate and humiliate their partner, but there are far too many men for whom it’s pure power play. You can usually tell which camp a particular guy falls into based on the specific language he uses.
Reblogged this on respectsexwork.
Cassandra – thank you for putting that much more clearly than I did. 🙂
BTW for anyone wondering what the Snowdrop Explodes mess was all about…
http://snowdropexposed.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/hello-world/
On top of all the other ick, can I also point out that “want to destroy the world” and “suicidal” are not actually the same thing? But I guess referring to your desire to hurt other people as “suicidal” garners more sympathy.
BTW, all of the trigger warnings on that link. It features a rather detailed descriptions of creepy dude’s plan to rape and murder a woman (not a specific woman, and woman unlucky enough to cross his path) and some self-justifying bullshit about how his watching violent porn “saved her life”.
Also, I do not support the author’s conclusion that BSDM and porn = automatically evil and dangerous. It’s just the only place I could find his whole post quoted.
We need to do a better job of screening out potential predators before they manage to embed themselves in feminist circles.
Oh lord, the SRS thread about the #INeedMasculism hashtag was a good gateway drug, but now I am checking out the actual Twitter hashtag and I am crying with laughter. There are a few serious MRA Tweets strewn in there, but the subverting is merrily underway.
so much joy
seriously you guys
you should check it out
it’s glorious
I can’t stop
snerk
wheeee
my favorite so far
Ah bummer. I followed the #INeedMasculism hashtag to Twitter and nearly hurt my spleen laughing. Wrote a post with links to my favorites, but now it’s stuck in moderation b/c too many links. I couldn’t help myself, there were just so many funny ones!