Over on PUA dirtbag Roosh V’s Return of Kings blog, a guest poster calling himself Emmanuel Goldstein (oh, how clever) offers a rather revealing take on the psychology of “players” and pickup artists like himself.
After justifiably mocking “nice guys” for assuming that “girls choose men like people buy houses” – that is, by carefully weighing pros and cons and looking for the best deal – he suggests that
[p]layers … are more like that sweet old lady with saggy arms wearing a hairnet at your local supermarket, handing out free, tasty samples.
Stay with him; it will all make sense, sort of, in a moment.
You’re not even looking at her, and she beckons you over to have a taste. Even though it’s junk food, you can’t resist. You avoid sweets, and here you are eating a tiny cinnabon. And really, she won’t mind if you take just the
tiptaste.Regardless, minutes later, you’re going home with a 96-pack of cinnabons – and you don’t even eat pastries! To be completely honest, the first time it happens, you’re a little jarred and confused about how the whole thing went down so fast. …
Now, imagine that that sweet old lady is actually a funny, strapping young man, and you buying those cinnabons is a woman agreeing to sex with him the night she met him. That confusion you felt after you bought a huge package of junk food? That’s how a girl might feel after her first one-night stand.
Yes, that’s right: Mr. Goldstein is comparing himself and his fellow “players” to supermarket pastry-pushers who cajole people into eating things they know they shouldn’t eat, and that they later regret eating.
And, oh yes, that are really bad for them:
If you remain unconvinced, just remember that our economy is in shambles because tens of millions of people bought homes they cannot afford, and that half of us are comically obese from eating too much junk food. That granny sample lady is looking pretty formidable right now.
Now, there are all sorts of things wrong with Mr. Goldstein’s analogy here. Sex isn’t pastry, for one thing, and for another, women (and everyone else) should be able to indulge in either of these pleasures without having assholes on the internet getting up in their business. (And, yes, PUAs, I’m saying that as a fat fatty.) I’m just trying to point out that by the terms of his own analogy, Mr. Goldstein is saying that sex with him is a shitty thing that’s bad for you.
This isn’t someone attacking PUAs for being miserable, self-centered sexual users who are only able to convince women to have sex with them through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
This is a PUA who ASPIRES to be such a miserable, self-centered sexual user he’s only able to convince women to have sex with him through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.
In other words, PUAs are devoting their lives to making women feel bad about themselves. As a life goal, this seems a bit lacking.
Truthy’s convenient PUA bullshit lines read remarkably like the self-deluded rationalizations of an acolyte of some pyramid scheme. He doesn’t really understand what it’s like at the “top”, but he sure does want to be there.
And it always comes back to this shit, doesn’t it?
Also you are fat.
Call me naive, but if I were a master manipulator (instead of simply a master baiter, like our trolls) then I would probably use it to do things like control governments and get rich and make everything to my liking, not just get occasionally sort-of laid in bars by women who don’t like you.
Excuse me while I stare at my computer screen and snip coffe.
Pet peeve:
There is no sexual marketplace outside of prostitution – wherein you can, in fact, while keeping your variables well marked and under some scrutiny, talk of a market exchange of goods and call the goods “sexual”, and have a sexual market place. Because prostitutes are directly selling the sexual goods in that one specific case.
Of course you add things like, oh, I don’t know, abuse, kidnappings, human trafficking, terror, pimps and human raised as cattle into it and your entire idea of a rational marketplace worked by suppliers and consumers into some form of scarcity exchange programme sort of withers, whimpering at the tattered remnants of its humanity.
If you ever find yourself, Sir Inconvenient Truth, using the phrase “Sexual market place” and not immediately appending “… is a silly idea”, you are about to engage in mildly incorrect thinking.
Repeat after me! Rational economic actors exchanging goods and services cannot be directly transplanted unto the ethereal of interpersonal relationships because each individual is not a “good” because humans are not fungible! Humans are not fungible and because they are not easily interchangable there is no substitutes for each individual and that makes, if anything, each individual person their own market with their own interactions of supply and demand but this is all without even accounting for the idea of aggregate demand and aggregate supply oh hey you didn’t think anyone using the phrase “Sexual market place” understood the slightest bloody bit about economics, did you?
It’s a tongue twister!
I mean look at the thing you put into blockquotes! Look at what it says:
Ie: “Having sex is now no longer the defining purchase of your life”
… oh, how dreary, I get to do other things than worry about “selling” myself?
Ie: “Having sex is no longer forcing me to spend my life with one person”
… oh, how dreary, I get to do other things than worry about being owned by one person because my vagina contains magic glue. That sticks to people.
Ie: “Nowadays, it’s just about sleeping with the people you actually want to sleep with”.
… oh, how dreary, I like the things I like.
Actually, wait, no, I have a different point:
Constraining female sexuality is apparently more important to patriarchal social orders than organizing proper soil irrigation, engaging in warfare, earning the farvour of the gods, dealing with the weather, providing for the poor and elderly, creating art, poetry and music, inventing new things, geographic explorations…
Yeah. Sounds legit.
I’m going to drop the snarky for a second here and just ask you this:
Read those sentences, and tell me why that was is better than the system wherein people get to be platonic friends and women can hang out with men (and obviously, men hang out with women) without attracting scrunity.
Look at what you’re selling here. Look at what you’re directly favoring. You are saying, in no uncertain terms, that a world wherein men and women cannot interact for any other reasons than to procreate and bond in marriage is somehow preferable to one wherein they can be platonic friends, have conversations without overbearing guardians asking questions and just have a cop of coffee on a random Friday if they so feel like it.
Is that really, truly, entirely, what you would like? Is that the kind of world you want to live in?
Simply put, social and cultural change has unleashed human sexuality to the point wherein people can be friends without needing to worry about marrying.
Flip it.
Tell me why a woman’s choice of who to sleep with should NOT be as trivial as her choice of meat for dinner. Tell me why who anyone is sleeping with is somehow so significantly important that it overshadows even eating.
Lay it on me, give me the inconvenient truth of why sexual choice is a bad thing. And, if you could, – tell me why you want to live a world where you are denied having friends because they’re a different sex than you, where you have to worry about getting married to the first person you sleep with (you have to spend your entire life, all 70 years of it, with the first person you slept with. Enjoy the thought).
I’ll be here, waiting. No really. I have nothing better to do. Have a great weekend otherwise.
cloudaih — the ex-cop topic is on the other PUA thread, just an FYI there.
but david!!!! pick-up artistry is about bettering yourself for women!!!!
How does the long bullshit Inconvenient posted undermine the point made here that sex with PUAs is bad by their own admission? All the long litany if drivel says is that women are willing (or, more precisely, able) to have this bad sex because of less control on women’s sexuality.
If anything, the longer versions just has more to mock like the demonstrably untrue claim that women don’t use this latitude to have sex with (actual) nice guys.
@Fibinachi
+1
Regarding Fibinachi’s questions — I’m under a state of emergency because of a damned blizzard, I really have nothing better to do.
Well, besides eat cake, vanilla cake with vanilla frosting and sprinkles anyone?
Seriously. How does it not dawn that a PUA bitching about women seeking out better mates and having a lot of notches on her bedpost is the very height of hypocrisy? Sucks to have the shoe on the other foot, doesn’t it?
@Argenti
We have some spice cake for our share of the blizzard. 🙂 I just wish I’d remembered that we needed cream in order to make really delicious hot cocoa. Now we’ll have to settle for just yummy hot cocoa.
Maybe if PUAs didn’t spend all their time composing 10,000 word manifestos on why all women are whores they wouldn’t be so miserable.
I love sprinkles. ^^
@Argenti: stay safe. I just got let out of work early… getting home is going to suck. Being home may not be much better.
Women having lots of casual sex with guys is a terrible thing, wails guy who wants to have lots of casual sex with women. Yeah, that’s logical.
…I dunno. I always dated guys I liked and had sex if that seemed like it would be fun. I’ve been married for a while now, so is that not a thing anymore?
Now if the sign read “X Market beef is made out of horses!” it might not be too far off, at least in the UK and Ireland. 🙁
How does the long bullshit Inconvenient posted undermine the point made here that sex with PUAs is bad by their own admission?
Sure, it’s bad, but it’s women’s fault that it’s bad!
Maybe if PUAs didn’t spend all their time composing 10,000 word manifestos on why all women are whores they wouldn’t be so miserable.
At least their wrists wouldn’t be so tired. 😀
@Shaenon
Well, I got more that it is women’s fault that the sex happens at all, which I guess COULD make us responsible for the quality. You’d think that men could shoulder at least SOME of the responsibility for that, but that’s probably misandry.
@Bagelsan
Seriously, if your (meaning the PUA’s) choices are to hang around in bars failing to find a woman to have sex with, hanging around in bars exerting an enormous amount of energy misrepresenting yourself in order to find a woman to have sex with, or composing a 10,000 word manifesto complaining about how you can’t find a woman who will have sex with you or that all the women you have sex with are nasty whores…just go out and buy yourself a Fleshlight already, okay? And then you can get off all you like without even having to deal with all those nasty women.
One of the things I like best about sex is that you don’t actually necessarily need another person in order to have it. Technology is a wonderful thing, y’all.
Some Gal — enjoy your cake! And whipped cream, like ready whip, works in coffee, I’d imagine it works in cocoa too.
Bagelsan — enjoy your virtual cake, it’s soft and fluffy and baked by my bored mother. Apparently the answer to “wtf to do in a blizzard” is “bake a cake”!
Howard — good luck getting home, may you have a safe and uneventful journey.
I’ve been up since yesterday morning and am going to go pass out for awhile, hopefully power and Internet will still be here when I wake up. Idk that it’s really going to get that bad, my fish are more “this is interesting” than “fuck, better hide” — so hopefully the weather’s more or less stablized, that’d be nice as it isn’t too bad currently.
/randomness
G’night guys!
Argenti, here’s to hoping for no power outages! We want the fishies to be OK!
Some Gal, how dare you suggest that a man bear even a sliver of responsibility for their part in causing a woman to have sex. From what I am supposed to understand, men are hapless creatures who are just walking around until suddenly, they look down and find a woman fused to their dick. They just latch on harder when men try to pull them off. This traumatizing occurrence is what patriarchy aimed to prevent, and it HAD worked for centuries! NOW LOOK WHAT FEMINISTS HAVE DONE
>>deregulation of the sexual marketplace
Your typical gLibertarian/Austrian school economics are based on models that are ovelry simplified and faulty *even when they stick to economics*, and yet their lesser intelligence brethrens think they ought to apply the same models to everything, including sex, because of poorly thought out analogies of sex as a commodity.
Guy Debord’s ideas of the banality of thought when capitalist culture starts thinking of everything as merchandise seem quaintly *under*stated in this day and age.