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Having sex with Pickup Artists will leave you feeling crappy afterwards, says Pickup Artist

All PUAs are equally douchey, but some PUAs are more equally douchey than others.
All PUAs are equally douchey, but some PUAs are more equally douchey than others. Wait, wrong Orwell book.

Over on PUA dirtbag Roosh V’s Return of Kings blog, a guest poster calling himself Emmanuel Goldstein (oh, how clever) offers a rather revealing take on the psychology of “players” and pickup artists like himself.

After justifiably mocking “nice guys” for assuming that “girls choose men like people buy houses” – that is, by carefully weighing pros and cons and looking for the best deal – he suggests that

[p]layers … are more like that sweet old lady with saggy arms wearing a hairnet at your local supermarket, handing out free, tasty samples.

Stay with him; it will all make sense, sort of, in a moment.

You’re not even looking at her, and she beckons you over to have a taste. Even though it’s junk food, you can’t resist. You avoid sweets, and here you are eating a tiny cinnabon. And really, she won’t mind if you take just the tip taste.

Regardless, minutes later, you’re going home with a 96-pack of cinnabons – and you don’t even eat pastries! To be completely honest, the first time it happens, you’re a little jarred and confused about how the whole thing went down so fast. …

Now, imagine that that sweet old lady is actually a funny, strapping young man, and you buying those cinnabons is a woman agreeing to sex with him the night she met him. That confusion you felt after you bought a huge package of junk food? That’s how a girl might feel after her first one-night stand.

Yes, that’s right: Mr. Goldstein is comparing himself and his fellow “players” to supermarket pastry-pushers who cajole people into eating things they know they shouldn’t eat, and that they later regret eating.

And, oh yes, that are really bad for them:

If you remain unconvinced, just remember that our economy is in shambles because tens of millions of people bought homes they cannot afford, and that half of us are comically obese from eating too much junk food. That granny sample lady is looking pretty formidable right now.

Now, there are all sorts of things wrong with Mr. Goldstein’s analogy here. Sex isn’t pastry, for one thing, and for another, women (and everyone else) should be able to indulge in either of these pleasures without having assholes on the internet getting up in their business. (And, yes, PUAs, I’m saying that as a fat fatty.) I’m just trying to point out that by the terms of his own analogy, Mr. Goldstein is saying that sex with him is a shitty thing that’s bad for you.

This isn’t someone attacking PUAs for being miserable, self-centered sexual users who are only able to convince women to have sex with them through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.

This is a PUA who ASPIRES to be such a miserable, self-centered sexual user he’s only able to convince women to have sex with him through manipulation, leaving these women feeling shitty afterwards.

In other words, PUAs are devoting their lives to making women feel bad about themselves. As a life goal, this seems a bit lacking.

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Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Fatrelle clearly missed the entire discussion about whether people who are not cis women can call themselves feminists. General gist of that seemed to be “just don’t go all Hugo. Fucking. Schwyzer. on us” (and really, no movement needs the likes of him, it’s just particularly disgusting that he’s getting his grossness all over a movement that isn’t remotely about him)

Brain bleach! They don’t photograph well, but the cories keep shooting to the surface and back down again — they’re like tiny iridescent bullets of cuteness.

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

Natfantastic, yes some advice from other people who run FemSocs would be great, though I don’t have twitter…

A bit of advice about what sort of things they do, how they attract members, what sort of campaigns they run etc would be amazing. I’m still quite a new Feminist and have never started a society so it’s a tad daunting!

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

So, I read Cliff’s Cosmocking whenever it comes out, because in addition to being pure comedy gold there is valuable information in there.

Plot twist/spoile!: Last month Cosmo interviewed Hugo Schwyzer! To talk about women and sexuality. And presented him as an expert.

And it is every bit as bad as you are imagining right now.

And several dudes reading were like ‘but what’s the problem with Hugo Schwyzer, can’t men be feminists too?’

So, yeah.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Um, why is a man whose academic training has nothing to do with sexuality being presented as an expert on women’s sexuality in the first place? That would be stupid even if it wasn’t Hugo we were talking about.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I’m picturing it now – “Why all women secretly want to sleep with their patronizing college professor” by some guy who totally isn’t deluding himself at all.

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Why, Cassandra? Because Men Know Better, duh.

And just because his advice was about crossing boundaries, performing lesbian acts for the enjoyment of the man you were with, and not being Uptight, well, um… Men Know Better!!!

Yeah, Hugo Fucking Schwyzer.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I just fucking went to try to fucking find the fucking article he fucking…

I found this instead — http://www.hugoschwyzer.net/2009/07/28/can-a-feminist-read-cosmo/ (warning, you’ll start using fuck a lot)

“To state the obvious, there’s a lot of sexist, misogynistic media out there… magazines like “Vogue” or “Cosmopolitan”… — all send a troubling message about gender, about appearance, and about the capacity of any of us to find enduring happiness outside of narrowly defined roles…”

So let me do a (paid?) piece for one of those “troubling” magazines about how women should go to strip clubs. (With extra stupid when he says nonsense about “the flamboyance” of male strikers not being attractive to women…because he’s a straight/bi woman, or a gay/bi man, or a striped…or has any knowledge What. So. Fucking. Ever. about what people attracted to men think of male stripers)

…I think my rage face might’ve woken me up enough that the coffee can wait…

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Yep, straight dude, you totally know what women find attractive about men. Please tell me more about your fascinating insights into how my mind works.

(I have gingerbread coffee if anyone wants to share.)

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

It’s like the actual definition for “paternalistic,” in a nutshell.

Hey, how about a link? Yes, a link. http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2013/01/cosmocking-february-13_16.html

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I dunno, when I think of paternalism I don’t usually picture the father figure telling young women all about how they should go watch some (female) strippers, or let men come on their face in order the help the men build their self-esteem.

This may be because my father isn’t a creep.

thenatfantastic
thenatfantastic
7 years ago

@Historophilia

I’m super bogged down with projects at the moment but remind me in a week or so and we can find a way to swap emails to have a chat about what you need.

Bagelsan
Bagelsan
7 years ago

Maybe it’s more avuncular than paternal? That leaves lots of room for creepiness. Ew.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Since I believe Hugo is a dad I certainly hope that’s not how he talks to his kids.

Historophilia
Historophilia
7 years ago

@thenatfantastic, whenever you have time, it’s really kind and generous of you to offer your help 🙂

I’m annoyed as well, there’s a 1 Billion Rising event going on on campus as we speak but I can’t go as I need to start an essay 🙁

howardbann1ster
7 years ago

Well, by paternalistic I meant ‘no, what you say you want is totally not what you want, and I will tell you what you want.’

So in hindsight I meant abusive.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I just checked and yep, he’s got a son. I seriously hope he’s not teaching that boy any of this shit, particularly not with the smug “I’m a better feminist than you” attitude.

Once I get off my ass I’m going to make a nice dark roast with hazelnut creamer and cinnamon, which sounds like a lovely compliment to gingerbread 🙂 And hey, I neither have to get up, nor do anything, please pass the coffee Cassandra!

Gods, poor Cliff, the comments there turn into a “but why do you care more about the murder part than the suicide part!?” I mean, I know damned well ze can handle zirself, but no one should have to try to be logical in the face of that level of fucked-up-ness.

pecunium
7 years ago

Fatrelle with a Boner: But woman feminists actually seem to prefer me over men who call themselves feminists

Go read it again. Feminists dislike dudes who are bad feminists, dudes who try to commandeer feminism more than they dislike people who are honest about being assholes.

Why? Because the honest assholes do less damage.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Good to see that Stoner has finally dropped the pretense that he’s not an MRA. Sadly he seems to have replaced it with the delusion that feminists like him.

pecunium
7 years ago

The problem with HugoFuckingSchwyzer is that guys who aren’t feminist think he is. They think his puerile ponderings on what women want, and how the sexes ought to interact are good,because 1: it’s validating their desires, 2: a lot of feminists still give him various levels of credit.

So they convince themselves that femnism is about making their boners happy. To challenge “Hugo” is to challenge their ideas about how feminism is all about making mens’ sex lives better by removing “female repression, caused by outdated social mores”.

That this is not what feminism is about, and that more serious feminists reject it = feminists hate men/sex.

pecunium
7 years ago

It’s also a big part of why the guys who like “HUGO” are so upset about male feminists; we are betraying the cause (i.e. the right to be dickish to women), by saying women have agency, and need to be listened to more than murderous scum.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

You’re insulting scum, it feeds things, not kills them. (Granted, things here are things like snails, it I have a very nice snail & scum tank going currently [it’ll house an oto once I have enough scum])

Other than my pedantry, that’s spot on. Also, I advise against reading HugoFuckingSchwyzer’s blog, unless you like getting all rage face and swearing.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Hugo is shitty, so here, have a fish that thinks scum is delicious — who’s a cute little oto?

pecunium
7 years ago

There are different kinds of scum. Think bathtub ring.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Yeah ok, soap scum isn’t beneficial to anything.

Aloo paneer is not supposed to be this spicy (either that or my tongue’s gotten stupid about curry)

cloudiah
7 years ago

THATCORGIISSOADORABLEICAN’TSTOPSQUEEING

hellyeah
hellyeah
7 years ago

I had sex with a PUA, by accident. While the sex didn’t leave me feeling shitty (although it was shitty sex), his lies to me did.

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