An Orlando man, Faron Thompson, was recently charged with battery and child neglect after an altercation in which he allegedly tried to force his fiancée to swallow her engagement ring when she tried to leave him. (More details here.)
This sort of abuse is depressingly commonplace when women try to free themselves from abusive and controlling men; indeed, if I posted every news account along these lines on this blog I wouldn’t have time to do anything else.
No, I mention this case because something that Thompson reportedly told police reveals a lot about the mindset of abusers. When they arrested him, police say, Thompson complained that:
Women always claim assault, but never accept responsibility for provoking someone.
That is how abusers think.
It’s also how a lot of MRAs think.
Indeed, when I read Thomson’s reported remarks, the y immediately brought to mind something written not that long ago by Karen Straughan, the YouTube videoblogger who goes by the name of Girl Writes What. Straughan describes herself in her A Voice for Men bio as “the most popular and visible MRA in North America,” and given the rapturous reception her videos get on You Tube and on Reddit, this may not be an idle boast.
In the rather revealing Reddit comment I’m thinking of (which I blogged about earlier), Straughan suggested not only that abused women regularly “demand” the abuse they receive, but that many of them also get some sort of sexual charge from it. Oh, I’m sure she’ll deny that she really meant all that, but I can’t see any other way to read the following.
Oh, and in case you were wondering what article she’s referring to in the last paragraph — the one she says isn’t “seriously ethically questionable” — it’s a post from the repugnant Ferdinand Bardamu arguing that men should “terrorize” their partners because that’s the “the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.” For more about that charming piece, titled “The Necessity of Domestic Violence,” see my post here.
I’m having less and less of a problem with calling the Men’s Rights movement “the abusers lobby.”
I’m sure there are some MRAs who are as repulsed by Straughan’s argument as I am. If you’re one of them, and want your movement, such as it is, to be remembered as something other than “the abusers lobby,” you need to call out all those MRAs who make such arguments. Might I suggest that you start by challenging the “the most popular and visible MRA in North America,” otherwise known as Girl Writes What?
He actually used the word “nag” in one of his comments, and characterized it as a form of abuse. Also apparently women “subconsciously” abuse their partners.
“Secondly, the abuse perpetrated by women is pervasive, chronic and often low-intensity and subconscious. Evidence for this is indirect but easily demonstrable in how men describe their relationship with these abusive women: “nag, nag, nag”, “it’s just easier to do whatever she wants”, “I wouldn’t want to sleep in the dog house”, etc. It is remarkable that such comments are almost never made by women about their relationships with men.”
The reason that women don’t complain about their male partners “nagging” them is that “nagging” is a gendered term that can mean pretty much anything up to and including “talking”. I’ve heard requests for partners to help with housework described as nagging. “Please remember to pick up your socks and put them in the laundry basket rather than leaving them on the floor” – nagging.
Putting stuff like that in the same category as actual violence and using it to justify the violence is a trick that abusers have been pulling for a long time.
Yup. This one is so pervasive and ingrained that I actually apologize to my (male) partner for asking him to clean up after himself. It’s so annoying!
My favorite abuser’s lobby argument is the one that calls women “withholding sex” a form of emotional abuse. Don’t want to fuck your partner for a while for some reason? You’re now an abuser.
Thanks for the responses. I hope everyone noticed I made a conscious effort to be civil and non-accusatory in my posts.
The careful reader would have noticed that in my response to David’s assertions…
>> Abused people, male or female, are not responsible for the abuse they suffer.
and
>> Even if someone, male or female, says something “provoking” to their partner, male or female, that partner *doesn’t get to hit them*. Plain and simple.
my response was…
>> However, although I accept them as MOSTLY TRUE, there is nuance in their interpretation.*
*corrected grammar, emphasis added.
I never said that reacting violently to abuse is a “right” nor did I say it shouldn’t be punished nor did I say as a moral society we don’t need to reduce the incidences of this behavior.
What I did say is that one day an abused man “snapping” and responding with disproportionate violence is normal abused male behavior – the abuse metered out on him should be considered, where evidence warrants it, for at least partial justification whenever you see a news story of a man assaulting a woman. (NOTICE: I didn’t say he had a right.)
What you often see in the news is “Man beats up wife; sends her to hospital, man arrested”. What you don’t see is for the last two years she would routinely slap him on the back of the head and called him an idiot at every turn. Key point here, the man’s reaction was not self defense (at least not in a strict legal sense), I never claimed that it was. Her abuse was never life threatening but it was cumulative. His reaction was disproportionate to the latest incidence of abuse and irrational but these burdens are never placed on female victims of abuse.
OK, I’m done with this thread. There are other threads I’d like to comment on. If you still have a beef with something I said (which I suspect some of you may) we can attempt to resolve it there. You have the last word if you choose to use it.
One last thing…
@Sweet Dreams 893
>>David…thank you for highlighting these people who are part of the problem of domestic violence.
I don’t want to seem presumptuous but I deserve a little credit too, no?
So much angry… I can’t even.
To the author of that awful article, who the f*ck do you think you are? As an abuse survivor, I don’t need help blaming myself for what happened to me. My silly overthinking brain does that perfectly fine on its own, thank you.
Rationally, I know it wasn’t my fault. In my case (in two of my cases), I was a little kid who couldn’t possibly consent. Tell that to the voices in my brain.
If I punch someone in the face, it wouldn’t be because someone made me do it. I’ve been blindingly livid many times in my life, but have never physically abused someone ONCE. I’ve screamed at people before, but not with the intent to control them or make them feel like dirt. I have some f*cking self-control, which I expect from all rational adults, especially those I choose to date.
Abuse, including rape, is all about the abuser’s need to feel powerful and to exert that power over someone else. It’s not about liking kinky sex. It’s not about how much the victim turns the abuser on or how much the victim irritates the abuser. It’s about power. Full stop.
To keep things sane, if you honestly and truly like the kinky stuff, perhaps safety words, agreements and/or out-clauses should be involved instead of unexpected violence or forced sex. *shudder*
This is who an abuser is: http://www.domesticviolence.org/who-are-the-abusers/
Why the hell are you trying to rationalize and excuse the behaviour of abusers? F*ck you for being so damn patronizing.
P.S. You’ll notice that I didn’t use any specific genders at all in the main part of this post. Even though I am female and the most damaging abuse I suffered was from four separate males, I’m not going to let that make me assume that all victims of abuse are female and all abusers are males. I know better than that. The MRA needs to stop turning everything into a stupid gender war just because. This attitude of “Well women do it, too, so it’s okay” is childish, stupid, and doesn’t solve anything. IT IS NOT OKAY. ABUSE IS BAD AND RETALIATION IS NOT THE ANSWER. Done and done.
OK, I made one last cursory glance at the responses to my post and I’d like to add one more thing (I’m a hypocrite, I know, because I said in my previous post that it would be my last. Being a hypocrite is just part of my male burden I guess.)
Anyway…
When I said abused men say things like “nag, nag, nag” and “I don’t want to be in the dog house” to describe the verbal abuse perpetrated against them to their friends, they are using clichéd euphemisms to describe language from their abuser like “You worthless piece of shit, why do I have to do everything” and “If you ever do that again I’ll cut your dick off”.
Just to be clear I’m talking about abused men not all men. When most men say these things they’re not describing abusive language just as was mentioned, “Please pick you socks up off the floor.”
Off point but needs to be said…
Even though I know that most, if not all of you, vehemently disagree with my views, I do appreciate that at least some of you consider what I have to say and respond thoughtfully. I apologize for the invective nature of my first few posts (see glossary) but I was expecting to be labeled as “troll” and perma-banned (ip blocked) almost instantly as has been my experience on other pro-feminist sites.
Whoever coined the term “abusers lobby” thanks that was genius, and Disposable Perspective here does not understand prioritizing but loves the false equivocations. He’s a perfect example of abuser’s lobby, someone should start a wiki entry and use his posts as examples.
Shorter disposable bore: what about the menz?
They can’t help themselves, they’re suffering from menz rea. It’s similar to diarrhoea, but the fingers are the body part affected.
Argh. Did DisposableMan just fucking ignore the shit I talked about? I had no problem believing in mutually abusive relationships! I have no problem with the concept of female abusers or male victims, and honestly I wish they got acknowledged more often because EVERYONE suffers when a certain kind of abuse is erased! (I have a LOT of aggro regarding presumed gender roles in abuse scenarios.)
Just… GRAH!
Also, if someone truly can’t control their response to somebody, then they shouldn’t be around that person. PERIOD. And if you can’t escape that person, then something is terribly fucked.
Like, the way I see it, small children can be really fucking annoying. Possibly more so than adult humans, because they haven’t learned to moderate their feelings or reactions yet. So they can scream how they hate you and try to attack you and destroy things, all completely unaware of the bigger picture.
Thing is, even when small children behave this way, it is not acceptable to attack the child, or rape it, or scream in its face. The child is generally taught better ways to emote WITHOUT that kind of shit.
Adults do not get that slack small children do, but they’re still not any less acceptable to hit, rape, or scream at.
I thought this was basic kindergarten shit. They teach you, “Don’t hit,” not, “Don’t hit unless you actually are totally right and Timmy should give you that ball.”
MRAs -the only adults with less emotional intelligence than the average 5 year old.
I am intrigued as to why the MRAs always have to argue from a strangely specific point. Most recent example:
So the specific example here is:
1. Man beats up wife AND
2. severely enough she ends up in hospital AND
3. for the last two years she routinely slapped him AND
4. this was on the back of his head AND
5. she called him an idiot at every turn.
So what? Every man who’s ever physically a woman has had that history? Is that the total “argument”? The red pill is a hallucinogen.
Kiwi, there’s definitely a “suspiciously specific denial” vibe there…
RE: Kiwi Girl
…D: I didn’t see that quoted bit.
If someone is constantly mistreating you, however ‘low’ the level, the best thing to do is LEAVE. Leaving > attacking someone. I realize that some people may not be in a good position to leave, but putting someone in the hospital is like, among the LAST things you should do.
@LBT not surprising, I often don’t see what others pick up, not least because it’s like FSM, it’s a wall of text.
Couldn’t let these gems go unchallenged…
@ Kiwi girl and Katz
>> why the MRAs always have to argue from a strangely specific point.
>> there’s definitely a “suspiciously specific denial” vibe there…
This backhanded accusation of me hitting a woman is quite cowardly.
For your information, the scenario I was describing is not very specific and is entirely fictional. It was simply made up to illustrate my point in the previous paragraph.
I would normally demand an apology, not because of hurt feelings, but because such a stigma if allowed to fester would be quite counter productive to any arguments I make in the future.
However, I won’t make this demand of you because, I understand that the only thing feminists hate more than men standing up for men is other feminists conceding anything. I wouldn’t want to jeopardize your standing with your in-group.
Aww, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed.
Awww someone thinks that we must have pinned it on them, rather than some fucking newspaper report. Bumplucks: just the same crap no matter the source.
I must patent that line!
Wait I don’t really understand how kiwigirl was wrong. That was how I read the comment too.
And I didn’t see anybody saying that you hit people.
It seems like you are continuing to argue with things no one is saying.
I don’t think anyone owes you and apology.
melody, is that your other kitty in your gravatar? Zie looks a lot like my Katie. 🙂
“Chronically abusive women tend to use verbal abuse, lying to manipulate or defraud and destruction of personal property instead of physical abuse although slapping, pinching, kicking and thrown objects are not uncommon.”
Um, those things are all uncommon in general. And not anything like the nagging you mention later.
“Firstly, the abuse perpetrated by women is often seen as, if not acceptable, at least permissible. If you disagree, try to slap a man in public. You’ll probably get giggles if not cheers from the public. A man hitting a woman…well lets hope he can run fast.”
Dude, just wow. You seriously think if a woman slapped a man in public everyone would just start cheering? Wtf TV do you watch?!
“With a feminist’s perspective, you may be unable to appreciate the difficulty a man would have finding support for the abuse of being repeatedly called a loser, having household items thrown at him and periodically having his clothes burned in the backyard.”
Quick survey! Anyone here think that’s not abusive? Not straight up illegal? (Well, calling someone a loser is legal, albeit mean and potentially abusive) Anyone here think that we don’t need to work on accepting that men can be victims too and that this isn’t some sign of unmanliness?
Show of hands? Anyone? No? Didn’t think so.
“>> Even if someone, male or female, says something “provoking” to their partner, male or female, that partner *doesn’t get to hit them*. Plain and simple.
That’s feminist dogma. I DO accept that after a hundred years of indoctrination it has become culturally and legally normative at least in the United States. However, if you were to account for biology, anthropology and psychology it is neither plain nor simple.”
*waves around some psych textbooks* guess what? You’re wrong on that front. Like, that’s a diagnosable condition, not normative behavior —
1) several episodes of impulsive behavior that result in serious damage to either persons or property, wherein
2) the degree of the aggressiveness is grossly disproportionate to the circumstances or provocation, and
3) the episodic violence cannot be better accounted for by another mental or physical medical condition.
See wiki
“What I did say is that one day an abused man “snapping” and responding with disproportionate violence is normal abused male behavior – the abuse metered out on him should be considered, where evidence warrants it, for at least partial justification whenever you see a news story of a man assaulting a woman. (NOTICE: I didn’t say he had a right.)”
You heard it here! Whenever a man is arrested for DV and it makes news (which is rare btw) we should consider if it might be a justified response to verbal abuse. Do you have any idea how severe DV has to be to make news?!
“What you often see in the news is “Man beats up wife; sends her to hospital, man arrested”.”
Really? Because I see more like “3 dead after murder-suicide”.
“OK, I’m done with this thread. There are other threads I’d like to comment on. If you still have a beef with something I said (which I suspect some of you may) we can attempt to resolve it there. You have the last word if you choose to use it.”
Bullshit, this conversation is going on here, you get a -2/10 on the flounce for attempting to pull that “have the last word” shit.
“When I said abused men say things like “nag, nag, nag” and “I don’t want to be in the dog house” to describe the verbal abuse perpetrated against them to their friends, they are using clichéd euphemisms to describe language from their abuser like “You worthless piece of shit, why do I have to do everything” and “If you ever do that again I’ll cut your dick off”.”
Do I even need to say that “I’ll cut your dick off” is not wtf 90%+ of men mean when they say they’re being nagged? In my parents’ case, he starts complaining about being nagged when she asks if he was going to so that thing he said he’d get to or if she should just do it, eg “whee you going to let the dog in or should I?” “Stop nagging, I’ll get to it!” (meanwhile, dumby is trying to rip the sliding off the house).
“However, I won’t make this demand of you because, I understand that the only thing feminists hate more than men standing up for men is other feminists conceding anything. I wouldn’t want to jeopardize your standing with your in-group.”
…which is totally how I end up conceding military related points to Pecunium oh, every time they come up?
dagrabbit — “To keep things sane, if you honestly and truly like the kinky stuff, perhaps safety words, agreements and/or out-clauses should be involved instead of unexpected violence or forced sex. *shudder*”
First, a minor nitpick, safe, not sane, please. I’ve had plenty of safe kinky sexytimes while insane 🙂
Second, oh fuck yes you talk through wtf you’re doing, if not beforehand then when things change. Also, I’ve adopted a policy that I’m just not dating anyone I don’t feel comfortable breaking out the kinky sexytimes with — of all my ex’s, some part of my brain always pegged the abusive ones as unsafe to allow to hurt me, at all, period. No, not comfortable being a masochist with them doesn’t mean they’re going to abuse me, but it does mean the sexytimes will be, at best, mediocre, so why bother?
Point here is that the closest kinky sex should get to “unexpected violence” is when you know there’s a whip/flogger/whatever coming, at some point in the near future of the sexytimes, but not exactly when (think RHPS “antici………pation”)
Fuck, I rambled and forgot to add that I’m sorry about your abuse dagrabbit.
Reflecting more on the screed that TDM left before, now *that* smacks of protesting too much. Instant leaping to a negative conclusion in the absence of any evidence and tied directly in to insults to people who never did anything to him and expressed preference for an apology.
I now *do* have suspicions about TDM being an abuser. But I didn’t up to his last post.