Fellas! Better hold on to yourselves, because I’ve got some terrible news for you.
Actually, you’d better NOT hold on to yourselves. Because this is the news, straight from that always 100% reliable news source, the Men’s Rights subreddit:
I wonder if manginal orgasms are still allowed?
Regarding Hugo. I think he often makes great points, but you’re right. His past makes anything he says subject to the “poisoning the well” fallacy.
You’d think that seeing so many virtual boobs would desensitize people to the point where the real thing wouldn’t be all that distracting any more.
“Could not find YoungZer0, and there was only one DocTemna and that was someone @quoting.”
Ugh, comments… so… broken…
I have no idea what that guy is referring to. I didn’t write it though.
The pastebin I posted works, I think.
“You’d think that seeing so many virtual boobs would desensitize people to the point where the real thing wouldn’t be all that distracting any more.”
Oh no no! Not according to Kotaku commenters! Boobs apparently have special mind-control over gamers!
It does! I read it.
It makes me really really upset when men see something they don’t like about society and then assume Feminists are running the world so it’s their fault something is the way it is, even if Feminists are actively working towards changing whatever it is they don’t like.
🙁
I feel like the problem with Hugo still being allowed to post on places like Jez is less about Hugo himself than about the way that people have responded to the information about what he did in the past by trying to either hand-wave it away or pretend that it doesn’t matter. Attempted murder always matters, especially when the person you tried to kill was a member of the group who you are claiming to be an advocate for. It’s like finding out that someone who’s an advocate for victims of child abuse was a child abuser in the past. It should change the way they’re seen and people’s willingness to accept them as an advocate for the group of people who they behaved so badly towards in the past.
“Sorry, I just can not click those links. Angry incels are the utter worst, normal MRAs tend to excuse rape, these fuckwads actually encourage it.”
Ooo broken sidebar CSS! Didn’t even make it to trying to read the drivel, I have a policy about not supporting bad web design (it’s a bit of a boycott in hopes that if ignored it’ll go away)
Also, that looks horribly lacking in basic humanity, so I’d rather mock the code.
“In a weird way the incel communities remind me of pro-ana communities – the same sort of deliberate exclusion of anyone who might point out the flaws in people’s rationalizations or attempt to force them to confront how completely divergent from the norm their way of seeing things is.”
Curious, you thinking they’re more or less dangerous? I’d agree but the incel communities, by and large, don’t seem to encourage this sort of suicidal ideation the sock showed, while the pro-ana communities do, if not directly them certainly by ignoring how dangerous eating disorders are.
(Christ guys, this thread got long!)
@atomicgrizzly
Wow. That MRA hit practically every talking point except the whines about dating being harder on men and family court judges loving women too much. Good job with each of your points.
I live his list of “could of”s. Especially this: “You don’t know if i’m thin, ugly, fat, dorky, bulky, stupid, or could be poor.” Poor (and “stupid,” though that is a horrible way to get at it) so totally does not belong with thin, ugly and dorky. And what does bulky mean if not fat? Is he saying he could have been born with lots of muscles? o.O
To make it even creepier, sometimes he seems to be trying to sell himself as an ideal advocate for feminist issues BECAUSE he behaved so badly to women and girls in the past (for example the way he tries to frame his history of taking advantage of his academic position and sleeping with students). That way of framing things is just totally ass-backwards.
AMEN. Yesterday he an article about keeping lists of the people you’ve slept with, and he was regretting not keeping one. I said he could always make a list of the blogs, magazines, etc. that he’s wanked on.
Atomicgrizzly: It’s not a fallacy in Hugo’s case.
Pro-ana communities are far more dangerous to their own members. Incel communities are certainly not helping their members, but overall they’re probably more dangerous to the women unfortunate enough to encounter the men involved in those communities than to the men themselves.
“ooh Shiny!”
Lol, I would not have pegged you for the ooh Shiny! type! Too bad I only have one HD disc or I’d give you one, they’re very shiny (the dishes themselves, the parts you can’t see until the HD is dead and you decide to take it apart)
I should send you a pic of my violin though, it’s an ooh Shiny! electric 🙂
I like how NO ONE understands intersectionality. Like dude, you can have dude privilege but not white privilege. It happens.
I wanna see your violin.
“He also sent me a long e-mail trying to elaborate his thesis.”
1) fuck him. 2) I’m sending you that violin pic then, it’s certainly less annoying than that!
@CassandraSays
It is the typical religious conversion narrative. I think it is always bullshit since the format encourages lying or exaggerating to make the conversion seem more real or something. I the exaggeration typical of the form is part of the hand-waving about Schwyzer. People assume he is exaggerating when everything about his story actually screams minimizing.
I don’t understand how being a horrible person is supposed to prove you are better than people who have been good all along, but that seems to be the way the story traditionally works.
Cassandra and some gal re: Hugo, that about sums up my thoughts on the asshole. With side dishes of “and then you tried to hide it like we’d forget”
I might feel different about it if he seemed to have learned anything from his past, but the way he presented the story about his ex made it very clear that he hasn’t.
“And what does bulky mean if not fat? Is he saying he could have been born with lots of muscles?”
I guess stocky and/or heavyset, which is what I am (buying clothes sucks!)
“Atomicgrizzly: It’s not a fallacy in Hugo’s case.”
Actually it is. If someone gives good advice, but they don’t follow it, it makes them a hypocrite, but it doesn’t make the actual advice worse.
I still don’t like hugo, but a fallacy is a fallacy.
Ok, caught up, I hope. Agree with Cassandra on ALL THE THINGS re: Hugo.
“Pro-ana communities are far more dangerous to their own members. Incel communities are certainly not helping their members, but overall they’re probably more dangerous to the women unfortunate enough to encounter the men involved in those communities than to the men themselves.”
Good point, I was thinking that the incel men might just read along and have a pity party but not turn into assholes. Or even, gasp, take some dating tips! But no, you’re right, they probably do affect a larger number of people since the pro-ana communities are only dangerous to their members.
And ok I’ll get the violin on tinypic or something!
Does anyone know if there are stats on the average length of time people are involved with pro-ana communities? I’ve heard stories that involvement with them has actually led some people to realize they have a problem and knowing the averages would help me figure out exactly how I feel about them.
(I developed an eating disorder, most likely encouraged by my taking Wellbutrin, and so I understand wanting a community to help you feel less alone and that will always lead to sharing stories and tips. I feel like having a community is important enough to overlook a lot of the self-harm aspects as community prevents even more permanent/irreversible self-harm like suicide, but it would be helpful to know how damaging the communities are.)
Of course, a community around something like incel that hurts others is not okay.
“It makes me really really upset when men see something they don’t like about society and then assume Feminists are running the world so it’s their fault something is the way it is, even if Feminists are actively working towards changing whatever it is they don’t like.”
Yeah, it’s pretty ironic. I think a lot of these guys have skewed views on what feminism is. They think that feminists are working with some kind of zero sum game where they take power from men for themselves. They don’t know that we’re working for everyone.
It’s like when people talk about Socialism like it’ll automatically make America into Soviet Russia. They don’t know that the US government uses socialist policies all the time (Social Security/mediacre/medicaid)
I feel like any community that includes the concept of thinspiration is inherently harmful.
“I still don’t like hugo, but a fallacy is a fallacy.”
True, but there’s got to be a point where the advice is obvious enough that the asshole it’s coming from makes the whole thing moot. Eg he who learned nothing about attempting murder doesn’t really get to give advice on being a dencent human being unless it’s so damn revolutionary it couldn’t possibly come from somewhere else.
And the violin pic seems to be on the other computer, let me get breakfast and coffee and I’ll break out the Mac (need it to code Pierre’s CSS too 🙂 )