Uh oh! It seems that some woman is offering some opinions about Tolkien!
Over on Time.com, Ruth Davis Konigsberg has a brief personal essay reflecting on the almost complete lack of female characters in the new Hobbit film, and in Tolkien’s ouvre generally. As she notes, it’s not until about two hours in to the nearly three-hour movie that “we finally meet someone without a Y chromosome,” namely Cate Blanchett’s Galadriel — and she was added into the originally all-male story by the screenwriters. Blanchette’s is the only female name out of 37 named in the cast list – though there are a couple of unnamed female characters who make brief appearances.
“I did not read The Hobbit or the The Lord of the Rings trilogy as a child, and I have always felt a bit alienated from the fandom surrounding them,” Konigsberg observes.
Now I think I know why: Tolkien seems to have wiped women off the face of Middle-earth. I suppose it’s understandable that a story in which the primary activity seems to be chopping off each other’s body parts for no particular reason might be a little heavy on male characters — although it’s not as though Tolkien had to hew to historical accuracy when he created his fantastical world. The problem is one of biological accuracy. Tolkien’s characters defy the basics of reproduction: dwarf fathers beget dwarf sons, hobbit uncles pass rings down to hobbit nephews. If there are any mothers or daughters, aunts or nieces, they make no appearances. Trolls and orcs especially seem to rely on asexual reproduction, breeding whole male populations, which of course come in handy when amassing an army to attack the dwarves and elves.
Yes, yes, as she admits, Tolkien’s few female characters tend to be powerful. But that hardly changes the basic fact that the Hobbit, and Tolkien generally, is overloaded with dudes.
These fairly commonplace observations have, naturally, sent the orcs and the elf princesses of the Men’s Rights subreddit into an uproar. Naturally, none of them seem to have bothered to read any of Konigsberg’s brief piece before setting forth their opinions, which sometimes accuse her of ignoring things she specifically acknowledged (like that whole powerful-female-character thing), and completely miss that the bit about reproduction is, you know, a joke on Konigsberg’s part.
Here are some of my favorite idiotic comments from the “discussion.” (Click on the yellow comments to see the originals on Reddit.)
Uh, Jane Austen’s books are filled with dudes. Especially Pride and Prejudice 2: Mr. Darcy’s Revenge, which was later adapted into a buddy cop movie starring Robin Williams and Danny Glover.
EDITED TO ADD: Somehow forgot to include two of my favorite comments:
Oh, and if you were unable to find a woman in the picture above, try this one instead:
A Serious House, that is.
I also like Sandman overall, but I also think there are several things you can criticise from a feminist standpoint.
Like, only men are allowed to be dark and brooding, while the women are usually put in the role of bringing the dark and brooding men back to Earth, telling them to cheer up, remind them of what’s important etc. Even Delirium gets to play this role with Dream. (My favourite Sandman woman is Barbie, whom I think escapes this treatment.)
Wanda the transwoman gets bullied by the witch Tessally and the moon goddess, since apparently the gods are cis-sexists. I get that she’s bullied by her family, unfortunately that part is realistic, but why does she have to be bullied by the GODS as well? (Compare ass-kicking trans woman and witch Fanny in The Invisibles.. Okay, it sucks that they keep referring to her as a “transvestite” despite the fact that the book makes it completely and explicitly clear that she’s a woman, not a man in women’s clothing. Still, I love that she’s not a poor victim and that she’s NOT discriminated against by the fucking gods.)
And the story of Dream and this African princess who rejected his advances (sorry, too long ago since I read the books to remember her name right now). He gets pissed off and SEND HER TO HELL FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. When I complain about this, people always say “yeah, but it’s supposed to be a bad thing he did, Death calls him out on it etc”, and that’s right. But the ENORMITY of his crime is never ever addressed. The whole thing is treated more like… I don’t know… as if he’d been having an affair behind his girlfriend’s back or something of that magnitude. But he put a woman IN HELL FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. And in the end, the princess ends up victim-blaming herself for the whole event. That’s the worst part of the entire series, really.
And I still think they’re overall good stories, sometimes VERY good. But they also have some issues…
The art from Sandman gave me a headache, but ymmv.
(I am perfectly willing to accept that it is beautiful and good and brilliant, it just gave me a headache both times I tried reading it.)
“terraform men”
Um, those words you’re using, thy don’t mean what you think they mean. Terra is Latin for earth. As for the English “stiff upper lip” cultural practices will vary, so how the fuck is demanding that of everyone any different than the co-opting of anime that you’re complaining about?
@Abnoy
“They just do and don’t feel the need or want to make such a fuss and muss about their own natural state. In other words, the mature adult thing I believe is just to take things for granted and not even notice them at all.”
Spoken like a true white male 😉
Without being totally “ERROR ERROR CRITICISM OF NEIL GAIMAN DETECTED ATTACK ATTACK,” I have to point out that Despair is a woman. (There’s definitely a Manic Pixie Dream Girl dynamic between Dream and Death, though.)
That part made me sad. I really wish he had not done that 🙁
Still, she’s treated respectfully as a character and it’s clear that she’s really female. And Death accepts her as she is. I was surprised to see a trans character in a story from 1990 at all.
http://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/31494939135/stealingfirefromprometheus-asked-you-ive-been
Just throwing that out there. I’m certainly not going to try to judge the extent of his failure to do what he was trying to do, or how much slack we should cut him for those failures, but I do like his response.
@Abnoy
” I mean, proclamations of passion in public are rather unseemly childish. Adolescents may be excused for it but a proper adult should practice what the English call the ”stiff upper lip” and be politely reserved in public.”
“The bad vice of women always seeking to terraform men to suit them is most tedious indeed and a major reason men everywhere consider marriage the living death!”
http://youtu.be/P5iqYuFmzqg
(PS: …I did just spend the weekend reading short stories and poetry by Neil Gaiman, so objectivity? What objectivity? Which is why I am not the best to judge at all)
@Dvarghundsspossen: “But women who wear stuff that’s totally IMPRACTICAL just to look sexy, that really grinds my gears. High heels on women who’s gonna run and fight is particularly common.”
Kate Beaton says it well.
@Abnoy: “Well, I can`t really relate to that because i`ve always been rather personally indifferent to and disinterested in the value judgements of other people, as a general rule, except of course, when it involves either security or neccessity or opportunity to yours truly.”
First, the word is uninterested, not disinterested. To be disinterested means impartiality, not having a vested interest in one side of a case vs the other: you would really want a disinterested judge on a court case, but not an uninterested one.
Second: are you saying you’re a sociopath? Because more and more of your statements suggest it. You seem to have a basic inability to recognise at least half the human species as having needs and rights of their own.
“I mean, proclamations of passion in public are rather unseemly childish. Adolescents may be excused for it but a proper adult should practice what the English call the ”stiff upper lip” and be politely reserved in public. Discretion is the better part of valor after all.”
Proclamations of passion? What, do people go round making speeches about their love lives where you live? Or are you spinning out about hand-holding or kissing? Guess what, I don’t much like seeing people cleaning each other’s tonsils in public either, but I have this secret weapon for such occasions. It’s called looking away.
Third, “discretion is the better part of valour” is completely irrelevant in this context.
Your blather about “morally superior” fanboys just demonstrates again what a fuckwit you are.
Are we absolutely certain Annoy isn’t Ste-al-e?
“Are we absolutely certain Annoy isn’t Ste-al-e?”
I don’t think so, but I suck at Mr. Al spotting.
“Second: are you saying you’re a sociopath?”
Sadist, sociopath…lots of overlap there.
Mr. Al is definitely a masochist though, given the way he keeps coming back just to be banned, like he enjoys being hated or something.
Nah, Abnoy’s been around around for a while. He’s another blog herpes, flares up and then goes dormant.
I would’ve said that about Steele, but no, they’re like polar opposites — the Mr. Al masochism versus the ABNOY sadism.
ABNOY, I’m really curious, just how does one terraform a man?
You-know-who didn’t sock until his original banning, IIRC, since his mentality is “I deserve to be in this community, so if I’m excluded I’ll sneak back in.” So anyone around during his original incarnation is probably not him.
Cover him in potting mix and plant a few seeds?
ABNOY’s been around that long? Not that I think he’s Mr. Al, but I’m curious now.
Kitteh — would you recommend flower seeds, catnip, or maybe a nice tree? I’m thinking lemons, to complete the “when life gives you lemons” metaphor.
I would say to use wildflower seeds, because they’ll bloom nicely in poor-quality soil. (I’m assuming it’s Annoy we’re terraforming.)
If one planted the tree at groin level, it could look all very Tree of Life metaphorical … Mind you it’d be a bit tricky for someone to walk around if he had a tree growing from him. Maybe it better be bonsai?
Definitely catnip. I want to see what happens there.
Or a vegetable garden. If he was vegetarian he could be totally self-sufficient, as long as he remembered to add a bit of plant food when he showered.
Clairedammit – no, I wouldn’t bother terraforming Abnoy unless it meant he couldn’t type or talk. No way would he be worth the effort even if it made him look pretty.
Argenti: A pecan… they have a deep taproot: that will stake them down and suck them dry for nutrients.
Deep enough to double as a vampire stake? Because that could be perfect. Though, they’re already rather lacking in intellectually nutrients.
I do like the wildflower idea, for the metaphor factor.
@pecunium
Misandry!
“I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden …” 😀
Abnoy: the mature adult thing I believe is just to take things for granted and not even notice them at all.
Which is why you aren’t complaining about the changes to comics.
Well, I can`t really relate to that because i`ve always been rather personally indifferent to and disinterested in the value judgements of other people, as a general rule
Unless they are, “ruining” your hobbies, by liking them, and so causing the people making a profit to consider what they might like, even a little bit.