Uh oh! It seems that some woman is offering some opinions about Tolkien!
Over on Time.com, Ruth Davis Konigsberg has a brief personal essay reflecting on the almost complete lack of female characters in the new Hobbit film, and in Tolkien’s ouvre generally. As she notes, it’s not until about two hours in to the nearly three-hour movie that “we finally meet someone without a Y chromosome,” namely Cate Blanchett’s Galadriel — and she was added into the originally all-male story by the screenwriters. Blanchette’s is the only female name out of 37 named in the cast list – though there are a couple of unnamed female characters who make brief appearances.
“I did not read The Hobbit or the The Lord of the Rings trilogy as a child, and I have always felt a bit alienated from the fandom surrounding them,” Konigsberg observes.
Now I think I know why: Tolkien seems to have wiped women off the face of Middle-earth. I suppose it’s understandable that a story in which the primary activity seems to be chopping off each other’s body parts for no particular reason might be a little heavy on male characters — although it’s not as though Tolkien had to hew to historical accuracy when he created his fantastical world. The problem is one of biological accuracy. Tolkien’s characters defy the basics of reproduction: dwarf fathers beget dwarf sons, hobbit uncles pass rings down to hobbit nephews. If there are any mothers or daughters, aunts or nieces, they make no appearances. Trolls and orcs especially seem to rely on asexual reproduction, breeding whole male populations, which of course come in handy when amassing an army to attack the dwarves and elves.
Yes, yes, as she admits, Tolkien’s few female characters tend to be powerful. But that hardly changes the basic fact that the Hobbit, and Tolkien generally, is overloaded with dudes.
These fairly commonplace observations have, naturally, sent the orcs and the elf princesses of the Men’s Rights subreddit into an uproar. Naturally, none of them seem to have bothered to read any of Konigsberg’s brief piece before setting forth their opinions, which sometimes accuse her of ignoring things she specifically acknowledged (like that whole powerful-female-character thing), and completely miss that the bit about reproduction is, you know, a joke on Konigsberg’s part.
Here are some of my favorite idiotic comments from the “discussion.” (Click on the yellow comments to see the originals on Reddit.)
Uh, Jane Austen’s books are filled with dudes. Especially Pride and Prejudice 2: Mr. Darcy’s Revenge, which was later adapted into a buddy cop movie starring Robin Williams and Danny Glover.
EDITED TO ADD: Somehow forgot to include two of my favorite comments:
Oh, and if you were unable to find a woman in the picture above, try this one instead:
Can anyone give me a feminist ranting on Lovecraft? The not-an-ex thinks I’d enjoy it, but ze’s head over heels for Lovecraft.
Rating, not ranting, bad auto correct!
“You mean everybody brought potato salad?”
How’s your tolerance for purple prose? It doesn’t get much more purple than Lovecraft.
“dropped dish (that I saw! correct me if I’m wrong)”
Idk about the movie, but Bilbo is quite relieved that they break nothing.
Cassandra, well, I like Tolkien ^.^
I can deal with it in other words.
Trust me, Tolkien is more white with the slightest hint of lavender compared to Lovecraft.
Lovecraft is neither feminist or anti-feminist. Women don’t really exist in that universe. If anybody’s interested, there are two pretty good movies of Call of Cthulhu and Whisperer in Darkness made by really competent fans. I recommend both.
But I’m not going to want to throw it out a window and question zir for recommending it and loving it? (Remember that this was recommended by someone I really like and respect)
Ok, so I probably won’t want to chuck it at a wall.
If you can get into the mood and go with the pulp-style purple prose and enjoy Lovecraft for his imagination, you’ll enjoy it. But you do need to be in the mood and take his writing as typical for the pulp era. Kinda like reading the original Dracula, which is very of-its-time in the style.
I don’t recall anything in Lovecraft that would be especially rage-inducing for a feminist. His writing style makes me giggle at inappropriate moments, though.
I loved Dracula, so I guess I’ll give it a go.
“His writing style makes me giggle at inappropriate moments, though.” — lol, I can deal with that.
Thanks guys!
Lovecraft is palest mauve compared to Clark Ashton Smith. I liked ’em both a lot as a teenager.
Dammit, a whole Pratchett conversation while I’m commuting! Unfairunfairunfair!
Who’re my favourite characters? Probably Vimes and Death, not necessarily in that order. I just love Death, he’s gorgeous. And Vetinari. I really like Vetinari. Granny and Nanny, though yeah, there are times when I get pretty pissed off with Granny. The Nanny and Casanunda pairing is wonderful, and I just adore that scene in the Long Man where she wakes the sleeping king and he goes into a “What tyme do you call this? Go awaye” tirade.
Pratchett said that he’d had a letter (or letters, plural, I’m not sure) from a person/people with terminal illnesses, saying that the thought of a seven-foot skeleton in a robe coming for them at the end was comforting. He said he sort of sat staring at the wall after reading that.
If you’re gonna read Lovecraft, be prepared for some really awful racism. It doesn’t come up in every story, but oh boy is it terrible when it does.
I’ve never read Pratchett but this discussion has led me to download two of his books! My reading list grows ever longer…
Greebo. The realest of all real cats. (The Unadulterated Cat. Required reading for all cat people.)
Well, the person may also have been imagining themselves feeding sugar lumps to Binky.
Gametime — which ones should I just avoid then? Given what I’d heard already that was my big concern.
There’s a very large, very belligerent cat that lives nearby that Mr C and I refer to as Greeba.
asdfghjkl A conversation about female characters in Pratchett?!
Pterry’s female characters are probably some of the best I’ve ever come across written by anyone of any gender.
I think at heart it’s because he just sees them as people first and foremost rather than “women” and he does that with all his characters, he sees them as real people and treats them with humanity.
That’s what makes me love his books so much, not only are the funny and clever and great reads but they are deeply humane. Pterry completely understands how people work, he sees humanities flaws and it’s issues and he doesn’t shirk from showing them but he also portrays all it’s best features and presents them together. That’s also why his characters are so good. They all have flaws, and they go hand in hand with their better qualities and you can’t get one without the other.
I think Granny Weatherwax and Vimes are his greatest creations and possibly two of the greatest fictional characters ever written but my favorite character of his is Tiffany Aching. She’s probably the fictional character I identify with the most, the way she thinks and the way she views the world and the way she approaches things really resonate with me.
She’s also definitely the kind of female character I’d have love to have read when I was a child, but I was already in my teens by the time I read those books.
I would totally have gone as her for World Book Day when I was at primary school. Partly as the description of her fits me (brown hair and eyes, pale skin) and what’s more the illustrations of her do actually resemble me, it’s something about the nose.
I am definitely giving the Tiffany Aching books to my someday kids, they’re great. In fact all of his books for children are excellent, has anyone read Nation? That’s a really great kids book with some very positive messages in it.
I always thought Magnus must be one of Greebo’s offspring.
And Death of Rats, yes. And Quoth the raven, who won’t say the N word. (“Nevermore”)
Also if I ever get a dog it will be a small scruffy looking mongrelly/terrier thing and I shall call it Gaspode.
Happy New Year!
“May the sun always find you on a dreary day
When you need to be home may you find your way
May you always have courage to take a chance
And never find frogs in your underpants”
Lovecraft, ugh. Mr. HK loves it, and I can appreciate the mythos, however the purple prose puts me off. It’s not quite to Steele levels, but oy vey.