Well, now you’ve gone and done it, you evil feminists: you’ve turned 0bvious_Atheist into a Nazi!
We first met the Men’s Rights subreddit regular the other day, when in a fit of ingenuity he blamed the Newtown school shootings on, er, Title IX. Well, his strange political journey has continued, and on his blog, on Boxing Day, the Canadian MRA officially announced his conversion to neo-Nazism. Literally. Let’s let him explain:
I have grown impatient
I have lost my desire for conventional activism. We live in an era where men like Warren Farrell are run off campus by mobs of Femistasi, men like Keenan Midgley get maligned for trying to start Men’s Centres, JohnTheOther gets harassed in the streets and others like him get assaulted, Mr. Heimbach a white students advocate in the United States, is constantly maligned by the media and the intellectual establishment, and Jared Taylor, a meek and mild Yale graduate, is harassed at every turn by the establishment.
Huh. I have to admit I’m not completely up-to-date on all the examples of anti-white, anti-male oppression he lists here, but I would like to point out that Warren Farrell did not, in fact, get run off the University of Toronto campus. A number of students protested his visit, some of them quite rudely, but the police interceded on his behalf, clearing away protesters so he could go ahead and make his speech.
I also looked up that vague reference to “Mr. Heinbach,” and discovered that Matthew Heimbach is a student at Maryland’s Towson University who wants to start a White Student Union there. As part of his campaign for tolerance on behalf of America’s beleaguered white majority, he recently posed in front of Martin Luther King Jr.’s church in Montgomery holding a Confederate flag.
Gosh, how terribly unfair it is that some people might have criticized him for this.
Mr. Atheist continues:
I’m a young man. I don’t have the patience to go around asking for permission to exercise my inalienable, natural right to freedom of association. As Harold Covington said, Whites feel they need a permission slip from quote “the Jews” unquote to advocate for them. I feel the same thing can be said of Men’s Rights Activism. We feel that we need permission from Feminists, the intellectual establishment, and the state to self-advocate. Our entire movement has become a quest for permission from the left to self-advocate.
I’m pretty sure that not even a single molecule of that is even remotely true. What color is the sky in Imaginary Backwards Land?
We want a Men’s Ministry in the government. We want Men’s organizations on campus. We want White student unions. All of those things are politically toxic to the establishment and out of reach, and furthermore, if you look at what the “Men’s Ministries” in the Northern European welfare states have done you will remain unimpressed, and perhaps even alarmed, at how little they have mitigated the total alienation of young men from the respective societies of those countries.
Of course, the young men who are most alienated from society in the Northern (and Southern) European welfare states today are the immigrants who are so despised by Mr. Atheist and his fellow White “Nationalist” racist assholes. And these young male immigrants aren’t feeling alienated because of a lack of White Student Unions or the unimpressive actions of Men’s Ministries; they’re feeling alienated because of racism and a lack of jobs.
With this in mind we must recognize that productive organizations simply are not going to become a reality. If you doubt me, you can go look at what they did to Dr Warren Farrell when he tried to speak at the University of Toronto. I have absolutely no desire to be screamed at, spit on, expelled, fired, ostracized, and made into a pariah for simply asking to exercise my right to freedom of association.
So the fact that a couple of dozen students protested against a speaker on a college campus, delaying his talk for half an hour or so, means that normal political activity on behalf of your ass-backwards faux “civil rights movement” is impossible? Mr. Atheist, do you have any fucking idea what real civil rights advocates went through in order to get the same basic rights as everyone else, like the right to fucking vote? Do you think that feminists weren’t ever “screamed at, spit on, expelled, fired, ostracized, and made into … pariah(s)?”
What sort of strange entitled bubble do you live in that you think political activism should be painless? Or that your political opponents should simply roll over once you express your opinions?
Congratulations intellectual establishment. After around 14 years of politically correct education at politically correct institutions run by politically correct professors you have alienated me, first as a White, and secondly as a male. I have got absolutely no patience for your goddamn processes, your forms, your organizational quotas and quorums required to get approval from the UVSS. I’m fed up, and I’m going elsewhere else to self-advocate.
If you’re really serious about going “elsewhere else,” might I suggest another planet?
As market Anarchists and Libertarians constantly must remind you crypto-Marxists, if you ban something the buyer will go elsewhere in the market to get it. That’s exactly what I plan to do. Rather than grovelling at the feet of professors, academics, pseudo-intellectual social justice warriors, and Femistasi, I’m just going to go join the Western Front, a quasi-Neo-Nazi, semi-illegal White Nationalist political organization that accepts me for what I am and understands my problems. You have driven a relatively well off, intelligent, middle class, White male, who used to vote NDP, into the arms of the very people you taught me to despise for the totality of my formative years.
Great. I guess the one upside of all this is that Mr. Atheist won’t be calling feminists “feminazis” from now on. Not that “femistasi” is much of an improvement.
Oh, and in case anyone needs visual evidence of how much of a racist fuck 0bvious_Atheist really is — not that there’s much doubt — here’s a link to a cartoon he stuck onto the end of one of his recent YouTube videos. But first, a TRIGGER WARNING for really really racist rape imagery. Link.
(Note: There doesn’t seem to be any information online about a neo-Nazi group called Western Front, at least not in Canada. There was evidently one by that name in Los Angeles at one point. Does this group, like the anti-white-male oppression he talks about, exist only in 0bvious_Atheist’s head? EDITED TO ADD: There is a group called Northwest Front; presumably that’s what he meant.)
Kitteh, probably not, but let’s pretend it was? 🙂
Argenti – take the title! 😀
Francis Begbie: It’s not the first time I hear this tripe about how Roissy and Roosh counsel men on how to conduct “loving” relationships with “deserving” women. I think we have a problem of definitions here. I don’t consider a relationship where my partner cheats on me, abuses me, constantly tears me down, forbids me to vote, humiliates me in front of others, doesn’t make any effort to please me in bed and on the contrary, does his level best to hurt me at every “love-making” session, makes me completely powerless in absolutely every area of life, isolates me from my friends and family, and otherwise treats me like shit — call me crazy, but I don’t consider that to be a “loving” relationship. If there is anything that either Roissy or Roosh actually love (apart from themselves), it’s probably in a freezer somewhere. Or in a cage, missing a few body parts.
Ok, so I read through the comments and didn’t see anything like this. Hopefully I’m not just repeating something. I was wondering how many Manboobzers (Manboobsians?) were Canadian, and if any of them had a better knowledge of the law than I do. (I’m Canadian…studied a bit of law…REALLY want to go to law school, just can’t afford it right now.:(). I know we have more rigid rules about what we can say in public forums, and as far as I understand, what one finds on the Manosphere definitely teeters on the line between free speech, and speech that promotes hate. Obviously, our government/human rights tribunal has no authority over american/british etc. bloggers on the manosphere, but they have authority over people like Obvious_Atheist. If he’s publically declaring that he’s joining Northwest Front, and given some of his other statements in the past, does anyone here know if he could be brought before a tribunal (or even before a court of law on a hate speech charge.)?
Can I just take a moment to rant about how much I hate the whole “don’t walk alone at night” thing? ‘kay
I’m a grown fucking adult. I will walk where I like when I like* and if anything happens to me – rape, mugging, assault, whatever – it is entirely the fault of WHOEVER CHOSE TO COMMIT THE CRIME. Humans are rational fucking beings. They can choose not to assault another person. Thus, the ONLY person ever to blame when something happens is the person who CHOSE to commit a crime.
Walking is not a crime
WALKING IS NOT A CRIME
And I am sick and tired of being treated like it should be.
Okay, I think I’m done now.
*And wear what I want, and so on.
::high fives palmedfire::
Go palmedfire go!
@Melissa: I am reposting one of the two final comments I made the other night in the previous thread. THe other just listed a bunch of quotes from your posts showing how, grammatically, your sentence structure constructed women as agents of their own abuse: what you don’t intend to say was nonetheless in your writing.
I won’t repost that one, given what you said here.
@Melitroll: I bet you’d agree with the kind of advice often women on how to avoid being raped, right? It’s just the kind of thing you’re saying here–women should make good decisions, and should not put themselves in situations where rape is inevitable, and should take the well meaning advice of caring people on how to avoid rape, right?
If that’s so, and I bet it is, then I want you to read the feminist deconstruction of those helpful, caring, not at all blaming the victim on my heavens no (despite the subtext of “you get raped, you’re to blame, slut”) advice lists and think about how this might apply to abusers:
To avoid you having to click a link which would take so much of your valuable time, I’ve reproduced them and given the link at the end:
Ten rape prevention tips:
1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.
2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.
3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.
4. If you are in an elevator and a woman gets in, don’t rape her.
5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.
6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.
7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.
8. Use the Buddy System! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.
9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.
10. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.
http://canyourelate.org/2011/05/24/rape-prevention-tips/
Thanks. I’ve been tangling in ye olde gender wars on RPG.net again and am thus a little riled. Nice to know I’m not crazy or something.
I do worry about that sometimes not because of ~illogical female-ness~, but I am a (admittedly) privileged white girl who went to a private, all-girls high school and then an all-woman’s college, so there’s a lot of traditionally “feminist” thinking that I just more or less grew up with thinking it was mainstream.
One of the great disappointments of my life was realizing it wasn’t.
@Melissa: I’m nearly crying now. Please don’t be horrible to me. It isn’t fair.
I am taking you at your word and believing what you say.
Given that, walk away from this post. Do not stop, do not pass GO, do not keep reading and trying to explain to us how we misunderstood you and are just being horrible to you.
I’d suggest not coming back at all–but that’s a different issue.
You don’t need to be here.
Life isn’t fair.
You said horrible things.
BUt for now just walk away and take care of yourself.
@Palmedfire: Fantastic comment.
I share your complete and total disgust at that fucking stupid statement (as somebody who had to walk home late at night after the shift at the pizza parlor, at someone who teaches a late night graduate seminar that ends at 10:30 p.m., etc).
Women walking at any fraking hour of the day or night for any reason are not responsible for whatever anybody else does.
Also: ditto the “driving alone.”
I got a teaching job in Texas, and drove from Seattle, WA to the job in the summer of 1993.
Various relatives and friends (NOT my mother) were all “omg you’re all alone oh i wish you had a man” (since I’d carefully arranged not to marry or have a man cluttering up my life, you can imagine how well that went.” I finally asked some of them what they thought a man could do that I couldn’t.
My mom? Suggested joining AAA, and taking advantage of their maps and planning directions and all that.
I’m still a member some twenty years later….
OP: There is a group called Northwest Front; presumably that’s what he meant.)
So, lousy sense of direction as well as all the other exquisite dipshittery? Figures.
“surely if dave wanted to mock misogyny even more, he could show all of us why all this stuff these guys believe is bullshit and that would be even funnier”
How bloody thick are you, that you think this isn’t more transparent than a glass frog’s skin?
Melissa: “abuse-apologist”? That’s a bit over the top isn’t it?
Nope, you may find it painful, and you may wish people weren’t reminding you of it, but it’s apt.
I think you’re miss understanding my position.
The one where abusers are obvious to everyone and if women were willing to not get involved with them the reasonable expectation of being abused by an abuser wouldn’t happen?
I think we understood it perfectly. It’s abuse apologism.
I admit that I can be a bit trollish sometimes in the sense that I like to get into discussion and debate.
Wha? I thought you were surprised at the level of pushback you got, i.e. the actual debate which ensued.
You know it is possible to criticise without all the cruelty
Cruelty? What cruelty? Who has said you deserved the bad things that happened to you?
What’s happened is people have sussed out the core of your arguments, the logical conclusions to what you said, and you don’t like it.
I don’t think the rapists will listen to that. But the potential victims might listen to “you shouldn’t walk alone at night”.
You shouldn’t drive when drunks are on the road.
See how pathetic that line of argument is.
And… you are wrong. Telling men not to rape (since they are the one’s who do the vast majority of rape) will change the culture. Just look at the social reactions to smoking.
I recall when there was no such thing as a non-smoking section in a restaurant; when it was legal to smoke in airplanes.
That’s not the way things are now. It’s because there were campaigns to make inflicting one’s smoking on other people socially unacceptable.
Sorry, typo. I meant to say “I’m *NOT* asking for protection from criticism.”
Yes you are. You are equating people pointing out the abuse apologism in your arguments to being cruel, and asking them to stop, because it hurts your feelings.
Melissa is going to cry,
and she just doesn’t understand why
everyone is so mean
when she’s so clearly seen
that abuse victims do want to die.
So, Mellitroll, what will you say to all the women who weren’t walking at night and still got raped? What should they not have been doing? How are they responsible for what happened to them? Come on, let’s hear it.
Incidentally, I don’t give a flying fuck about your delicate feelings. Go cry about that.
Begbie claims to have been following long enough to have had his exposure here to the Manosphere to change his life… but he has no idea why Melissa is getting pushback.
I smell someone who came from the locker room.
I also note that the name is from Trainspotting. A less than savory character.
melissa: You say no one engaged you.
Ok, well I think I did, here http://manboobz.com/2012/12/28/2012-year-of-triumphs-for-the-mens-rights-movement/comment-page-2/#comment-236334 and later.
That you bailed doesn’t mean no one engaged you. It means you quit, and now you are blaming us for your not going back to follow up before you came to this thread.
Yes, it is wrong of them. Especially wrong to say it to you when you are already upset and think *you* are the one who did the wrong thing.
I walk alone at night all the time. I LIKE walking alone at night. It’s peaceful. To want to walk alone at night is NOT stupid.
This right here is the root of your problem. You’re assuming that avoiding abusers is easy so that anyone who doesn’t has ignored the signs or made a concious decision to date a ‘bad boy’. But you know what? Not everyone is as perfect as you are. Abusers often target people who are vulnerable and abuser are manipulative and good at psychological games. But telling someone they should have avoided abuse to someone who doesn’t have the mental defences to protect themselves is like telling a vision impaired person they should have just looked more carefully at what was in front of them.
I can see hidden away you think you are saying that people should be given the tools to spot abusers and to protect themselves, but that’s really not what you’re actually saying.
I walk alone at night too. I live within walking distance of where I work, so I walk rather than drive. Saves money & gas, so yay! And I don’t have to pay money to join a gym, since I get about an hour of exercise/day on my “commute.” Although I’ve had a few scary experiences*, I know that those are down to the people who tried to frighten me — I don’t blame myself for existing in the world and making the choices that make sense for me. Including occasionally staying late at work to finish a project, meet a deadline, etc.
*Actually, most of the scary experiences weren’t at all rapey, but were along the lines of cars nearly running me down in spite of the goofy reflective tape I wear around my arms and ankles. Also, I’ve met nearly all of the dog walkers in my neighborhood, which is great because I love dogs but don’t want to own one. I have like a dozen doggie friends I see regularly!
So you have timeshare dogs?
Don’t walk late at night Mellitroll?
Well, you payin my rent when I have to quit my job cause the only hours I get are late nights at the local fast food joint?
You paying for bus fare? How’s about a security esort for when I get off the bus? Or take a taxi?
Thousands of women are out walking late at night because THEY HAVE to. Also, most rapes are committed by people who are at the very least friends with the victim, not strangers.
And abusers will befriend and manipulate trust of their victims BEFORE they start abusing. And when abusers abuse, they either get a new social group that won’t rat them out OR their current social group fails to tell the newest mark what she’s in for.
You were abused as a little girl? So was I. So, what did you do to deserve what happened to you? HINT: absolutely nothing. Your parents may have had the right to be cross and discipline you, they did not have the right to abuse you. What’s more is that they CHOSE TO ABUSE RATHER THAN DISCIPLINE. And as adults its their fucking business to know the difference and make the right choice.
I do have timeshare dogs! I used to occasionally walk my neighbor’s Jack Russell too, until he moved away to live with their son. Best of all worlds, really.
So, you mean the things that you said in the other thread and you weren’t purely trolling? Those things were stupid and offensive, and when you say stupid and offensive things people are going to a. call you out on it and b. remember that you said those things, which influences their perception of you.
There’s a name for what you’re doing. It’s called magical thinking. You’re trying to convince yourself (more than anyone else probably) that if you just do all the right things in the future you can protect yourself from further abuse. Unfortunately that often isn’t true. It’s also not fair to subject other victims to the kind of collateral damage inflicted when you throw that magical thinking out into the world like you were doing on the other thread. Doing so also makes it easier for rapists and abusers to get away with their crimes, because it focuses blame on the person who was attacked rather than on the attacker where it belongs.
Your friends were wrong, and that was a shitty way for them to respond to what happened to you. Please learn from it, listen to what people here are trying to tell you, and become a person who if in the future someone chooses to confide in you will be less shitty about it than your friends and family were when you were the victim.
“Doing so also makes it easier for rapists and abusers to get away with their crimes, because it focuses blame on the person who was attacked rather than on the attacker where it belongs.”
*internet standing ovation* That there is TRU FAX, unlike the BRAIN FAX that Dumbass the Dumb spews.