What a year!
The Men’s Rights movement, the most important human rights movement of the 21st century, got 2012 off to a flying start in February with an event in Bozeman, Montana that was quite literally attended by no one. After that, the year was a whirlwind of activity. Let’s go to the timeline:
January: The Men’s Rights movement rests up to prepare itself for the year.
February: The Montana State University chapter of the National Coalition for Men holds a lively and well-attended Men’s Rights event in Bozeman, Montana. Sorry. When I said “well-attended” I meant to say “not attended at all.” As the local NBC affiliate reports, in what may be my favorite sentence ever written about the Men’s Rights movement: “No one showed up to the event but organizers say the lack of attendance is not due to a lack of interest.” You can read more here at Man Boobz, or watch the NBC affiliate’s report here.
March: The Southern Poverty Law Center, an important and influential watchdog of hate groups in the United States, profiles the Men’s Rights movement, describing it as “an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations. … Women are routinely maligned as sluts, gold-diggers, temptresses and worse; overly sympathetic men are dubbed “manginas”; and police and other officials are called their armed enablers.”
March: British Men’s Rights activist Tom Martin has his “anti-male discrimination” lawsuit against the London School of Economics thrown out of court as a “hopeless claim.” Martin responds on Twitter by calling his critics “whores.” He then comes to Man Boobz and calls people here whores. Eventually he announces that female penguins are also whores. No, really. Read more about Tom’s visits to Man Boobz here: 1, 2, 3, 4. (TRIGGER WARNING for links 2 and 3, which deal with Martin’s reprehensible views on child prostitution.)
April: Thousands of Men’s Rights Activists converge on the National Mall in Washington DC for “Sink Misandry,” apparently some sort of protest against the lifeboat-boarding policies of the RMS Titanic, which sank in the North Atlantic one hundred years ago. (There was a movie about it.)
Sorry, correction: When I said “thousands of MRAs” I meant to say “none.” While the Sink Misandry protest was announced with great fanfare in December of 2011 on A Voice for Men, it was later called off due to unspecified logistical problems. Understandable, given how difficult it is to get to our nation’s capital, inconveniently located on the sparsely populated East Coast and served by a mere three airports.
May – June: The Men’s Rights movement has lunch and takes a little nap.
July: Seven Men’s Rights activists make it to the steps of the Capitol in Washington DC, evidently for some sort of anti-circumcision protest. On Reddit, one MRA blames the poor attendance on the machinations of the “Government and the Fem lobby.”
August: In order to more effectively harness the activist energies of MRAs on Reddit, Paul Elam of A Voice for Men sets up a Men’s Rights Activism subreddit alongside the longstanding Men’s Rights Subreddit. Only a handful of MRAs subscribe, possibly because Elam seems more interested in banning people he doesn’t like than in organizing anything, and the subreddit is abandoned by its founder and everyone else within a month.
September: In Vancouver, Men’s Rights activists hold a lively, well-attended debate with feminists on the question “Has Feminism Gone Too Far?” at a local used car dealership.
Oh, sorry. Another correction: After being announced, and cancelled, then resurrected and reannounced, the event is ultimately cancelled after the organizers lose the venue for the event due to a weird turn events that involves an MRA car salesman being removed from his place of business by police after some sort of dispute with his business partner. Also, the MRAs never bothered to round up any feminists to take part in the debate with them. You can read the whole complex and confusing saga of the Great Vancouver All-MRA Debate That Wasn’t in these three Man Boobz posts: 1, 2, 3.
October: Recess
November: Artistry Against Misandry holds a lively and well-attended concert and fundraiser in Nashville to celebrate International Men’s Day.
Whoops! One more correction: The event never happened. Apparently the organizers lost their venue, and were unable to book another one, as Nashville isn’t really much of a music town and musical venues there are as scarce as … wait, no, it’s fucking Nashville. NASHVILLE. Music City. The home of the Grand Ole Opry. I’m pretty sure that every building that isn’t a house or a restaurant there is a musical venue.
Also, the Artistry Against Misandry website seems to have vanished from the face of the earth. Might I suggest a visit to Artistry For Feminism and Kittens instead?
December: Christmas shopping.
I should note that when not organizing, then cancelling, events many MRAs have been busily harassing individual women online and posting many very angry comments. A few have also been putting up some very badly designed posters. So there’s that.
With a year of such triumphs behind them, how will the Men’s Rights movement manage to keep up such a blistering pace in 2013?
drashizu,
“Are you sure Anti-social is the right personality disorder?”
Reasonably sure, but I did not “diagnose”. I showed my friend information on Anti-social PD and compared that with her own descriptions of her partners traits – the conclusion was obvious, and I let her made own judgement on the matter rather than rely on my own authority.
“What about Narcissistic, or Borderline?”
Nope, wrong set of traits – and yes, I do know the difference.
“Can you claim with any authority that all or even most abusers would be diagnosed with one of these disorders, if they spoke to a mental health professional?”
Nope. How is this relevant? It’s hard to estimate numbers but I suspect most abusers are emotionally messed neuro typicals – simply because neuro typicals since they are some much more common that people with personality disorders. Would you suggest that neurotypical partners should therefore be avoided? Hhmmm
Also many people with personality disorders can manage their condition and live harmonious lives. The issue is more nuanced than:
Personality Disorders = Bad
Neurotypical = good
Still, I personally would not want to get involved with a sociopath – for obvious reasons..
“Can you claim with any authority that people who are neurotypical never commit acts of abuse”
Huh? What the actual fuck? Of course neuro typical people can do all kinds of messed up stuff.
“Can you reconcile the fact that your “signs” of an abuser, which you outlined in this post, do not correspond with the red flags of domestic violence outlined by Helpguide here?”
I outlined the signs of AntiSocial personality disorder (specifically) and showed that information to my friend so that her decisions would be better informed. Your *average* sociopath, and you *average* abuser are to very different people – obviously.
“For example: abusers as a rule do not lack empathy or act impulsively. Rather, they tend to be calculating, and use threats, humiliation, and isolation tactics to manipulate their partners into not wanting to report the abuse, and shift the blame for their relationship problems onto the victims to make their victims feel like the guilty party.”
As I said, I was talking specifically about the traits of a specific person. Not abusers generally. You know there’s a fair bit of variation out there. Abusers don’t come out of a factory with identical settings and neural wiring. Sorry for the sarcasm, but can you see why I found that annoying?
Melitroll, how do you explain that abusers are often the pillars of their community? That even friends and family are shocked and horrified when they realize how bad the abuse got towards the abused partner? Have you ever dated someone who scored pretty high on the narcisim traits? Do you realize that many nasty people develope a veneer of social charm most people will never see behind and only those closest to them will see after spending a prolonged period of time with the abuser?
Its one thing to have a talk with your friend about your concerns. Its an asshole thing to judge your friend as even the slightest bit deserving of any abuse she may suffer. But I suppose that “I told you so” glow of self satisfaction will more than compensate for whatever slight empath you might have for your friend.
Also, congratulations on forthrightly telling your friend that if she should need your help to not ever appraoch you. Between an abuser telling her she deserved it and you smugly gloating you told her so, I sure as hell hope she has better friends and family. But I’m sure the abuser won’t try to cut off contact with you, what with all that helpful victim blaming.
Effing concern troll is so effing CONCERNED!!!
Melissa, no one cares that your feelings are hurt. You are being a remarkably obtuse asshat, and I for one am pledging to ignore you just like I ignore Ruby “it’s okay to rape prisoners” Hypatia.
Mellitroll:
Aw, what’s wrong, throwing out “truth” and getting butthurt that no one’s buying your act? Cram it, toots.
Did we ever figure out which returning troll she is?
Starla,
“I disagree with you, not because I think you’re blaming the victim, but because just because your friend’s significant other has problems, you assume that he will be abusive. It is possible to have personal problems without being physically or emotionally abusive. Unless he exploded in violence against someone in front of you, it could just be that it’s something he needs to confront on his own. Maybe your friend wants to be supportive in this?”
If we were talking about any other disorder besides Anti Social Personality disorder I would agree with you 100%. Mental illness is absurdly stigmatised and most sufferers of personality disorders can manage their condition and live harmonious lives.
However, that particular individual, and that particular set of traits leave me gravely concerned.
I did not diagnose per say, but I gave my friend information on Anti Social Personality Disorder so that she can draw her own conclusion., and be aware of the situation and the dangers.
Melissa, you said this:
Don’t pretend you were ONLY talking about your friend-you’re-a-lousy-friend-to. You were talking more broadly than that and yes, you are putting the blame for domestic abuse onto the victims. Stop trying to pretend otherwise. You can can the “Oh you think I’m an agent of the patriarchy” whine, too. If you aren’t just a sockpuppet, if you are sincere – the jury’s out on that – you are woefully misinformed and yes, you have internalised misogyny, which you really need to go away and think about. If you are just another sockpuppet or troll generally, just piss off.
Wow, Melissa, you completely missed the point of everything I wrote. Of COURSE neurotypical people commit horrible crimes, and of COURSE abusers abuse for a variety of reasons and can’t all be chocked up to a handful of symptoms characteristic of a certain type of personality disorder you unprofessionally suspect your friend’s BF of having. That’s what I was saying.
It clearly went over your head.
And FIY in case you weren’t aware, narcissistic PD is often associated with emotional abuse, and borderline PD is also linked with abuse and manipulative behaviors during relationships. But I wouldn’t go around saying that just because I thought a friend’s significant other might have one of these disorders, that meant OMG my friend was being SO reckless staying in a relationship with them! Let alone claiming that that was some sort of proof that women like aggressive, reckless men. Please.
Well said, Kitteh!
Merci! 🙂
@melissa but how can you 100% now for sure that he has that disorder? I’m guessing you don’t know him on a very personal level (or if you do, you havnt made it clear). And I know I’m being repetitive of everyone else but it’s precisely because it’s possible for someone to have issues while not being abusive that domestic abuse victims don’t just sidestep it. They really DONT know if something like that will occur and it’s definitely not their fault for not seeing it coming. That would be like dumping a potentially amazing relationship because he stubbed his toe, said the “s”word and scared you. See the problem?
*chalked up and *FYI. I feel like I need to reread before posting, it’ll probably save me some minor embarrassments.
In other news, since boring troll is boring and I’ve already broken the lurker’s seal for today, I’m going to see Les Miserables with a friend tonight. Have any of the Manboobz commenters seen it? Was it good? There are so many actors I love in this movie, I’m terribly excited for it.
I have a friend who went to see it. It is a very musical musical, LOTS of singing. She said it was mostly singing which is not her thing. I think she was thinking it was more like the average movie.
It is now 1:16am in my time zone, and people are responding to my comments faster than I can reply.
Some of it is getting repetitive, but I will try and return tomorrow and reply to any comments that are worth replying to.
Good nite all.
Pillowinhell:
“Its one thing to have a talk with your friend about your concerns. Its an asshole thing to judge your friend as even the slightest bit deserving of any abuse she may suffer. But I suppose that “I told you so” glow of self satisfaction will more than compensate for whatever slight empath you might have for your friend.”
I will not judge her in the slightest whatever the outcome may be. If she does remain with him, and if she does suffer because of that decision I will just try to help her and support her as best I can; without ever even mentioning that I warned her, because it wouldn’t be constructive. I know that few (if any) of you will believe me, but when I am discussing such things with my friends I only care about helping them and being constructive.
I’ll have to get back to you about the fact that “abusers are often the pillars of their community?” and “many nasty people develope a veneer of social charm”. You bring up interesting issues there and I have much to say. But now I must sleep.
Okay, interesting. I tend to like musicals (stage musicals, at least), so I think I’ll probably like seeing one on the big screen. I haven’t actually seen Les Mis on stage, or read it, so it will be a new experience for me. Hopefully a good one. Thanks, pillowinhell!
Nominating Melissa for Most Goddamned Irritating New Troll, subtracting points for a shitty flounce that won’t stick.
Hmm, I suppose Mel could just be a victim of how conversations about abuse are framed.
Its also interesting to watch how quickly she took another tack when confronted, without ever acknowledging that she was WRONG.
It was less goalpost-shifting and more calling a time-out, running off the field, and then running back onto the field to a completely different position and pretending you’d been there the whole time.
Les Mis is a really sad story, bring lots of hankies.
I had to read it in English and in the original French. I have come to loathe the story (thanks French teacher!), but it is well written and a classic.
She’s true to form, at least. That’s pretty much how the last coughconversationcough with her went.
And totally off topic, but I’m dying of impatience here. I onlined ordered some new embroidery books (my first time ordering online!) and I’ve been waiting TWO WHOLE DAYS. No, I did not pay for priority shipping.
One of the books has patterns for Rennaissance lace making patterns! So excited!!!
Some of it is getting repetitive, but I will try and return tomorrow and reply to any comments that are worth replying to.
Don’t bother. Just go and stay gone.
You can disagree all you want, but what this analogy shows is that you are taking away all culpability from the abusers and placing it firmly on the shoulders of victims of abuse. You’re treating assault and abuse as just a “thing” that happens, like an electric shock or a force of nature, rather than something that people choose to do to others. This is exactly what people mean by “victim blaming”/”victim focus.”
Eh, I don’t think melissa deserved everything she got. She’s obviously extremely misinformed and has probably never been around an abuser or anything like that and it’s very easy to be on a high horse when looking at people who won’t get out if situations like that when you’ve never been in one. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and before that I did think it was incredibly stupid not to leave a situation like that before experiencing it firsthand. But I will agree that if she doesn’t understand the psychology of a domestic abuse victim she definitely doesn’t need to think the can identify mental illnesses simply by observation.
Crazy Starla trying to empathize with everyone lol
Rapists- as inevitable as electricity.